Celestial Being Announcement

[Bob Janova]

Yes, it's a symbolic gesture, but symbolism is important. Good move Celestials.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='27 May 2010 - 08:31 AM' timestamp='1274963494' post='2313421']
Yes, it's a symbolic gesture, but symbolism is important. Good move Celestials.
[/quote]

Bob stop using your brain. Anything that continues put Gramlins demands for unconditional surrender in the spot light is a good thing. Anyone who can not see that is an idiot or a liar. Good show Celestial.

[kevin32891]

Good show WC and CB
o/ CB

[quote name='Emperor Marx' date='27 May 2010 - 12:04 AM' timestamp='1274933061' post='2313084']
Wow, what's next? Celestial Tech Embargoes on Grämlins? Even if that has already been done, that changes little; This is just another facet in the PR grabs by several insignificant alliances. Insignificant in that no matter what action they took, they could not harm the Grämlins. Only Grämlins can harm Grämlins, and they seem to have that covered by themselves. Don't delude yourselves into believing this action you've taken will affect their self-inflicted downfall.
[/quote]
Ugh just go away please.

[ccabal86]

Thank you for your support

o/CB

[Merrie Melodies]

WC, while I did find merit in your original cause of supporting young nations and small alliances (even if I did laugh inside at the irony) I can find no merit in this action you have taken. In this case I find you to be out of line. Both Iron and Gramlins are long established alliances, both capable of making and defending their own FA decisions. I have difficulty understanding how you can justify attempting to impose your moralistic views on Gramlins in this instance. If you look at the root cause of the present situation, Iron, in this case, was the initiatory of hostile actions. Iron made a decision to bring war onto themselves.

You are attempting, through the use of propaganda to force your moralistic ideals upon an alliance who was on the defensive side of a war Iron started. Who are you to decide how this war should end? What possible justification can you put forth for aiding an alliance that willfully brought war upon so many with little more cause than wanting to destroy a rival power while they were viewed as being in a weak position?

[Hiro Nakara]

Why thank you Dochartaigh, you are as prefficient at insulting as you are at jumping the gun and declaring on alliances before you DoW. Ohh no, I cant use that anology, because your the master at that.

I can't complain really, as I send Gremlins tech to make my point, so touche CB.


Kevin, I have been wishing the same for your alliance for quite some time "Ugh just go away please."

o/CB
o/IRON
o/DAWN
o/Drama

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='27 May 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1274967461' post='2313466']
Why thank you Dochartaigh, you are as prefficient at insulting as you are at jumping the gun and declaring on alliances before you DoW. Ohh no, I cant use that anology, because your the master at that.

I can't complain really, as I send Gremlins tech to make my point, so touche CB.


Kevin, I have been wishing the same for your alliance for quite some time "Ugh just go away please."

o/CB
o/IRON
o/DAWN
o/Drama
[/quote]

You know Hiro, you bring up a good idea, I think I will donate 15 million and some tech to Gramlins myself to counter act this moralist scourge.

[janax]

Good idea, that's an act of war, but yah cool story.

[Lezrahi]

I believe that The Grämlins have far overstepped their sovereignty. That known, I personally applaud Celestial Being for this gesture. I do not believe that it is entirely in line with an objective of peace, but it is more of a contribution than any other alliance has demonstrated.

Be that as it may, I share some of Marx's skepticism: The Grämlins deserve all that has come to them, but at the same time, they are already dying, and have been since the end of the previous war. It is a unique stance, but there is little overall use for it, morally or materialistically. The point is already proven: The Grämlins encroached, and they must face the consequences.

Celestial Being does have potential as a white knight. This is not an ordinary course of action in the name of justice, and, effective and/or meaningful or not, it is a refreshing take. I am afraid that, if you wish to prove both yourselves and the validity of your causes, you must take such stances against the actions of foes that are [i]not[/i] already falling.

I willing continue to watch you, if only out of passing interest.

Godspeed to you. \m/

[Haflinger]

While Grämlins may be dying, while dying they are causing some damage to IRON's fighting nations. Celestial Being appears to me to be trying to remove that as a possible motivation for Grämlins to keep up the war, as they are only sending war aid - it stops once IRON is no longer at war.

[Hiro Nakara]

There was a fair amount of crying about it's an act of war to aid Gremlins tech in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84644&hl=bilrow&st=0"]This Thread[/url]. How henneious people are for aiding Gremlins, but it's okay to aid IRON. What is it then good or bad to aid either? Idk, I kind of lose track. I guess people can't have it both ways, or they can, they just shouldn't cry about it.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Hiro Nakara

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='26 May 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1274933651' post='2313103']
Oh here we go again, a thread involving Support for IRON, and then poster just so happen to be from the winning side of the war tell us its unnecessary.
[/quote]

IRON is kinda winning the war :|

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='27 May 2010 - 08:36 AM' timestamp='1274967366' post='2313464']
WC, while I did find merit in your original cause of supporting young nations and small alliances (even if I did laugh inside at the irony) I can find no merit in this action you have taken. In this case I find you to be out of line. Both Iron and Gramlins are long established alliances, both capable of making and defending their own FA decisions. I have difficulty understanding how you can justify attempting to impose your moralistic views on Gramlins in this instance. If you look at the root cause of the present situation, Iron, in this case, was the initiatory of hostile actions. Iron made a decision to bring war onto themselves.

You are attempting, through the use of propaganda to force your moralistic ideals upon an alliance who was on the defensive side of a war Iron started. Who are you to decide how this war should end? What possible justification can you put forth for aiding an alliance that willfully brought war upon so many with little more cause than wanting to destroy a rival power while they were viewed as being in a weak position?
[/quote]

so what you are saying is, it is okay for Gremlins to come in and defend MK using military force, but it is not okay for others to show any sort of support for IRON? hypocrisy at its finest folks.

as for whose decision it is on how this war ends, i thought it was CnG's decision and no one elses. seems that Gremlins chose to ignore that and continue this war, even when it was costing their friend more infra, tech, and NS.

what possible justification can you put forth for Gremlins willfully continuing this war despite the aggrieved party having laid down their terms of punishment and surrender to IRON/DAWN? what possible justification can you put forth for Gremlins attempt at destroying a rival power while they were viewed as being in a weak position?

bottom line is, you can't. you are just a hypocrite using double standards on alliances you don't like.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='27 May 2010 - 08:37 AM' timestamp='1274967461' post='2313466']
Why thank you Dochartaigh, you are as prefficient at insulting as you are at jumping the gun and declaring on alliances before you DoW. Ohh no, I cant use that anology, because your the master at that.

I can't complain really, as I send Gremlins tech to make my point, so touche CB.


Kevin, I have been wishing the same for your alliance for quite some time "Ugh just go away please."

o/CB
o/IRON
o/DAWN
o/Drama
[/quote]

i think you meant proficient, not prefficient. as for insulting, you should look at Marx for that. i admit i copied his style. oh and i made one mistake and am paying my dues for that. so if you consider that to be me being a master at that that is okay by me.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='27 May 2010 - 09:20 AM' timestamp='1274969993' post='2313496']
There was a fair amount of crying about it's an act of war to aid Gremlins tech in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84644&hl=bilrow&st=0"]This Thread[/url]. How henneious people are for aiding Gremlins, but it's okay to aid IRON. What is it then good or bad to aid either? Idk, I kind of lose track. I guess people can't have it both ways, or they can, they just shouldn't cry about it.
[/quote]

well as others said in that thread you bring up, Gremlins are more than welcome to do something about it if they don't like it. i find it funny that those who stated that IRON/DAWN/their allies and supporters (supporters are not the same as allies or even friends) should just deal with it, are now whining that people are aiding IRON/DAWN in this war.

so is it good or bad to aid either? it seems that to some it is good to aid Gremlins and bad to aid IRON/DAWN. to others it is the opposite. to some, it doesn't matter.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='27 May 2010 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1274962773' post='2313408']

reread the op, it explains why it took so long. as for a PR try, yes it may be, but it also goes hand in hand with the values the CB was created to uphold. so instead of ya'll (you Keshav, Marx, and others) continue being ignorant in your speech, you could learn what CB actually holds as values and their actions prior to this in other situations.[/quote]

Ignorant? Because I don't follow the mindless hail crowd, doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I understand what CB intends on doing, but I'm saying its frankly a waste. IRON doesn't need any aid because right now they are winning. That's why I just find it a mere PR stunt,

[quote]oh, so where were you when we saw alliances from SG side continue piling on alliances from TOP/Co's side when it was clear that the alliances from TOP/Co's side were nearing the end? i mean, a TOP/Co alliance would get peace and some of the 4-6 alliances on SG's side would then declare war on a different alliance from TOP/Co's side. that is much worse than this and yet not a peep out of you iirc.[/quote]

That is how war works. I don't see any wrong in activating treaties.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='27 May 2010 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1274974878' post='2313546']I think you meant proficient, not prefficient. as for insulting, you should look at Marx for that. I admit I copied his style. oh and I made one mistake and I am paying my dues for that. So if you consider that to be me being a master at that, that is okay by me. [/quote]


Sorted for you seeing as you dissliked my spelling.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Hiro Nakara

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='27 May 2010 - 10:20 AM' timestamp='1274969993' post='2313496']
There was a fair amount of crying about it's an act of war to aid Gremlins tech in [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=84644&hl=bilrow&st=0"]This Thread[/url]. How henneious people are for aiding Gremlins, but it's okay to aid IRON. What is it then good or bad to aid either? Idk, I kind of lose track. I guess people can't have it both ways, or they can, they just shouldn't cry about it.
[/quote]
Only people I see here whining and complaining are from \m/.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='27 May 2010 - 10:49 AM' timestamp='1274975356' post='2313554']
Ignorant? Because I don't follow the mindless hail crowd, doesn't mean I'm ignorant. I understand what CB intends on doing, but I'm saying its frankly a waste. IRON doesn't need any aid because right now they are winning. That's why I just find it a mere PR stunt,[/quote]

who says you have to follow the mindless hail crowd? also, i stated you were ignorant by stating it is solely a PR stunt. Not stating that this is not some sort of PR stunt but it also fits in line with the values that CB has had since their inception, so to state it is solely a PR stunt is ignorant.

[quote]That is how war works. I don't see any wrong in activating treaties.
[/quote]

so i take it you were all upset over those who were aiding Gremlins and are still upset over those aiding Gremlins? as for activating treaties, so it is okay for more alliances to pile on top of an alliance that is crushed already but it is wrong to aid some cash because the opposing alliance is killing itself? seems that your values sure do not coincide that well together.

[Cataduanes]

A commendable gesture, now if only Gre could let go of their pride and do whats right!

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' date='27 May 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1274977127' post='2313578']
who says you have to follow the mindless hail crowd? also, i stated you were ignorant by stating it is solely a PR stunt. Not stating that this is not some sort of PR stunt but it also fits in line with the values that CB has had since their inception, so to state it is solely a PR stunt is ignorant.[/quote]

CN Values change day by day Doch. You should know this. Today we preach values about something, tomorrow we change. It is because of that reason, I never trust any alliance saying these are our values.



[quote]so i take it you were all upset over those who were aiding Gremlins and are still upset over those aiding Gremlins? as for activating treaties, so it is okay for more alliances to pile on top of an alliance that is crushed already but it is wrong to aid some cash because the opposing alliance is killing itself? seems that your values sure do not coincide that well together.[/quote]

I'm not upset. All I am stating is, aid IRON, fine, but don't call it something like "these are our values". I see no problem aiding either IRON or Gremlins. Sometimes, to me it seems when alliances post on the OWF, saying these same lines "we've had enough of this !@#$. Our values are this. It is being broken therefore we are going to support this side" I take it as nothing more then a PR stunt.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='27 May 2010 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1274977721' post='2313593']
I'm not upset. All I am stating is, aid IRON, fine, but don't call it something like "these are our values". I see no problem aiding either IRON or Gremlins. Sometimes, to me it seems when alliances post on the OWF, saying these same lines "we've had enough of this !@#$. Our values are this. It is being broken therefore we are going to support this side" I take it as nothing more then a PR stunt.
[/quote]

So the entire Karma War was a PR stunt?

[KagetheSecond]

Too little, too late. I've read all the replies, save me the moralist manure, but this move would have been much more effective earlier in the conflict. Congrats for doing what feels right though.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

Yeah, CnG and SF are really propping up Gramlins by crushing Celestial Being for this sort of thing.

Hey, wait a minute

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Sargun' date='27 May 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1274978372' post='2313602']
So the entire Karma War was a PR stunt?
[/quote]
But of course!



Also, every doctrine ever promulgated on these forums, including the two Moldavi doctrines, the Revenge doctrine, the Grämlins codex, the ZIPP. All PR stunts.

In fact all treaties are PR stunts too. They keep on talking about things like principles of respect. Just balderdash.

[rabonnobar]

This would have been better had it been earlier... nevertheless, good show.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]There was a fair amount of crying about it's an act of war to aid Gremlins tech in This Thread. How henneious people are for aiding Gremlins, but it's okay to aid IRON.[/quote]
That's because of the obvious difference: by aiding Grämlins you're supporting unconditional surrender as a concept, and by aiding IRON/DAWN, you're opposing it. There's 180 pages over in World Affairs explaining why pretty much everyone agrees it is not something we want to see.

[quote]Only people I see here whining and complaining are from \m/. [/quote]
Yeah, with their convenient raid of TBB and then coming to bat for Grämlins in this thread (with a few individual exceptions) I'm beginning to wonder if they actually do support Grämlins' agenda.