Uberstein Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 We've had an argument going on in CNRP for quite awhile, how much does RP actual count? Is it just a numbers game? Or does RP actually count for something? If somebody can develop, say, a massive battleship with railguns and a shield-system of tiny guns to shoot down enemy missiles without any IC development, but just because they have the tech level and the ingame battleship, what's the point of RPing anything at all? Should wars be decided by whichever side has the highest NS and then simply dish out terms? Or should tactics, strategy, and taking the time to write something out actually effect the battles? Do characters matter, or is this text-based RISK? Those are the general questions I want to ask, mainly just to see the community's standing. This isn't meant to be pointing fingers, I simply want to see, where do we disagree specifically? I didn't include a poll because I want people to not just say "yes" or "no", but actually explain their standing. ------------- Personally I believe that RP should be a fairly major part of CNRP, that the stats are the bare clay and that RP is turning that clay into something that works. Just having the clay isn't going to get you very far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 I do agree with Uberstein. CNRP is CN Roleplay. RP should play a big role here, despite all the rules we implement everywhere. I find people who just say "oh hey, I have this" without any explanation to be silly. I for one at least try to go from proposal to tests to being successful or not. I like roleplay. CNRP is for roleplay. People should roleplay here. Properly, without magical "I have this now". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Itend to agree. While I am lazy when it comes to development, I do actually RP it out a bit...even occasionally showing that I have a problem and bringing in someone to fix it. And war shouldn't be all about numbers, either...terrain, tactics, and even the weather on occasion should play a role. Heck, if we could all agree to it, I' d love to have a mod or someone neutral create random events during wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 I don't do development that much simply because I tend to stick to real-life or very close to real life numbers for technology (slightly improved because of the 2020 cap, but only slightly). My RPing doctrine as it might be called is to base everything I have off of in-game stats and then back that up with roleplay. This, of course, applies only generally and if somebody I wish to RP with doesn't want to use in-game stats (like because of the unfairness of cruise missiles) then it helps that I have at least developed something to base it off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Tintagyl Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 While I do agree with you gentlemen, the problem is fairly simple to understand. You will never have a community solely dedicated to the writing out of development of weapons, defenses, etc, I mean I'll be honest, I can barely do it myself because I find it ungodly boring. Other people can write long and intricate posts about defenses, stats, movement capabilities, and so on that seem to go on forever that I could really care a damn about (LVN comes to mind). Other people are young and not everyone is a good as a writer as perhaps Subtle or Sargun, your writing abilities are truly a gift and you should [i]want[/i] to use them as much as possible, if this means writing good RP then by all means. Go for it. But I do agree with you, I think a little extra effort should be placed into making the writing something if not enjoyable to read, accessible. However I end with this, I have started to plan all my wars, Botha and I might be RPing a war, likewise Razgriz and I, I think with some patience the writing can come out again and I'm sure everyone wants to write everything out. But staring at a blank computer screen, its a hard thing to do. Trust me, I know so many word docs. that never saw the light of day in the past few years, and I'm not talking about CNRP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Pfft, don't listen to Sarah. Down with CNRP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 While I can respect the notion the Rping weapons development is good, I categorically refuse to make one of those "SDI Completion at 8% ... SDI Completion 24% rocket blew up on launch pad ... ... SDI Completion 100%" threads. As that is basically what most development RP is... not to knock on anyone, or anything. While some go to different lengths than others, I don't really want to read a wikipasted explanation of what you're building. I would much rather see RP go strictly into tactics and character development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 This is a nations game not a character game. There are lots of places where people can RP characters. Very few that provide an objective measure to base stats of a nation on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoot Zoot Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Well im of mixed view, I believe the IG stats etc should have an effect, but NOT the sort of dominance they have at the moment. Depending on georgraphy etc, a regiment can hold off x10 its number if they have the ammo. (not taking into account air power etc). Moreover, whilst im guilty of EM's example, I dont have the patience to do long winded RP's about how im developing something, because truth me told. Ive not a goddamn idea how most of it works, and im not gonna blind myelf by googling the inert details of it. As for character/Nation development, I try and do both. for my characters I dont take my IG stats into account. (see Barney stones artificial eye, hand and leg, and my genetic experiments with the templars/umbrella) My Templar/Umbrella stuff is only RP'd inside my own nation, and generally with other players who consent to me using them, exceptio being Barney Stone obviously, because artifical hands and legs are common, and nobody really sees them unless they shake hands or his leg falls out of his trousers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 I have always thought that CNRP was to role play and simulate geopolitics based on CN stats. If it was just to play with numbers, I think it would have been better to stick to just the CN game itself or the Game Related RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 CNRP is not one community that follows the same rules. We had a poll on this, remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted May 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 [quote name='Vince Sixx' date='20 May 2010 - 11:27 AM' timestamp='1274380053' post='2305455'] CNRP is not one community that follows the same rules. We had a poll on this, remember? [/quote] So this leads to another question, is there even CNRP? It looks more like we have cnRP and CNrp. Two extremes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Tintagyl Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='20 May 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1274355687' post='2304933'] Pfft, don't listen to Sarah. Down with CNRP! [/quote] You're right...I'm done with character RP, doesn't add anything to the game anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 [quote name='Sarah Tintagyl' date='20 May 2010 - 04:04 PM' timestamp='1274385856' post='2305603'] You're right...I'm done with character RP, doesn't add anything to the game anyways. [/quote] See the power of assimilation? In all seriousness, I agree with Baron. There is cnRP and CNrp, though that isn't to say one is better than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 (edited) I think RP counts in the sense that it provides for expanded features. Someone could make a nation and put minimal effort into it. And if they had a high tech level they probably could field some nice ships, and a strong air force. However if they haven't RP'd beyond their establishment then their features would be seriously limited. In the example you give, a fancy custom missile shield on a ship, if they haven't developed it I personally would say they don't have it. The same goes for fancy missiles, or special weaponry and armor for soldiers. A strong armor RP can justify fewer casualties, special missiles can justify rapid advances. While its sad that the tech system as it is presently constituted mitigates the importance of RP in actual conflict itself, I think there is still room for RP within it. That said, I am open to suggested modifications to the system. If anyone has any good ideas lets hear them. Edited May 20, 2010 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Tintagyl Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Question to the GMs: If people don't have to RP actual realistic relations with neighbors and everything is done in secret...can I not RP military defenses or military tech research and still have it? Like if I do it in secret and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 Personally, I try and RP based around my IG stats. I haven't made many intricate postings, because I'm a perfectionist and I need everything to be accurately researched and presented. So it takes me hours to write a decent development thread due to my insistent need to research tons of articles on the matter. That, and my time is mostly limited until summer arrives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted May 20, 2010 Report Share Posted May 20, 2010 [quote name='Triyun' date='20 May 2010 - 05:55 AM' timestamp='1274360092' post='2305005'] This is a nations game not a character game. There are lots of places where people can RP characters. Very few that provide an objective measure to base stats of a nation on. [/quote] Still, is it even national RpP when you simply, for the most part, copy/paste a lot of the technology from your previous nation(s)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 [quote name='Sarah Tintagyl' date='20 May 2010 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1274392473' post='2305780'] Question to the GMs: If people don't have to RP actual realistic relations with neighbors and everything is done in secret...can I not RP military defenses or military tech research and still have it? Like if I do it in secret and stuff. [/quote] It would not be the first time someone did that... I would say that they legality of that depends on the results of this discussion. In my opinion, it is within the rules, but is not in the spirit of the rules. I won't rule on it, but that's my opinion. On the issue as a whole, I am not surprised by who is taking the side of less RP, more in game, and More RP, less focus on IG mechanics. My personal opinion is, in short, we cannot, and should not disregard IG mechanics, this is [b]CN[/b]RP. However, I feel strongly that RP should play in directly to your existence in the game, as this is CN[b]RP[/b]. I personally feel that In-game mechanics should cover what they are described to do in game. An SDI should protect against nuclear missiles, a missile defense should protect against cruise missiles, Boats should count for boats, etc. That said, IG mechanics don't cover everything, and I think that if someone has a way around an in-game mechanic to do what they want, and is willing to RP it, they should have the advantage. In the whole game, I feel that RP should give an advantage over people who refuse to RP; Maybe not a huge one, but a push in the right direction at least. Otherwise, we discount the whole RP aspect, and the game slows to almost nothing. I don't think we should punish people by throwing out their RPs just because someone else has higher tech, or a higher chance of success for spy operations, or anything. We should be rewarding the people who take the game seriously, rather than rewarding the lazy people who refuse to RP even the bare minimum of "I have begun development on a super jet. It is fast and stuff." We shouldn't be punishing people for going and putting time into researching new technologies to give them an advantage, or even, gasp, designing their own technologies (That's my personal bias shining through, feel free to ignore it if you wish). Moral of the rant: I know I've said this forever, but if people are willing to RP their nation, not even doing character RPs or in-depth research RP or the like, they should be treated to some level of benefit above the people who sit, hoarding a chunk of land, only breaking silence to stay on the map, copy their old, already barely RPed tech, or declare war. My two (slightly peeved) cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzydog Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 Summer will be my first CN summer. I will RP a heck of a lot of stuff if you guys are up for it. Especially YOU, Sarah. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaede Alexeivich Posted May 21, 2010 Report Share Posted May 21, 2010 I definitely love to do RPs that allow me to develop characters, and the intricate stories and characters are, I believe, what make CNRP best. If those were to be cut out, and only numbers were left, I'd probably leave. That said. Meh...I definitely think many things should be RPed, so that people can't go 'omg look i just got a SDI'. However, I don't think absolutely everything must be RP'ed to be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Just write for the sake of writing. Is it that god damn hard? Stop writing to conquer someone, to take a continent, or to make your character the coolest person. Just !@#$@#$ write. Thats what RP is. When you come across the need to RP defenses, and you dont like to do that, make a nice fuzzy story about a guy who sees the cool looking battleship you just spawned out of no where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 [quote name='Acca Dacca' date='21 May 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1274486894' post='2307432'] Just write for the sake of writing. Is it that god damn hard? Stop writing to conquer someone, to take a continent, or to make your character the coolest person. Just !@#$@#$ write. Thats what RP is. When you come across the need to RP defenses, and you dont like to do that, make a nice fuzzy story about a guy who sees the cool looking battleship you just spawned out of no where. [/quote] Sorta like the Natives that saw Columbus appear out of no where? Also, what if conquering is what people like to write? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 [quote name='Acca Dacca' date='21 May 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1274486894' post='2307432'] Just write for the sake of writing. Is it that god damn hard? Stop writing to conquer someone, to take a continent, or to make your character the coolest person. Just !@#$@#$ write. Thats what RP is. When you come across the need to RP defenses, and you dont like to do that, make a nice fuzzy story about a guy who sees the cool looking battleship you just spawned out of no where. [/quote] The problem is, not everyone can afford to just write. They have to utilize limited time to write towards a specific directive, conquest, diplomacy, development, or what have you...Writing just to write means you have too much free-time good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 [quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='21 May 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1274497243' post='2307601'] Sorta like the Natives that saw Columbus appear out of no where? Also, what if conquering is what people like to write? [/quote] I still think it's rude to just randomly invade people, there are plenty of people out there who like war, so finding somebody to have a war with where both sides will have fun should be easy. That and the attitude of completely annexing your 'enemy' hurts CNRP as far as I'm concerned, it makes it so every war determines if your months of work stay on the map or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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