GOONS Reparations Announcement

[Baldr]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' date='16 May 2010 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1274048569' post='2300430']
The best part about all this is an alliance the size of GOONs warning the Cyberverse about the terms they're going to impose next time. I'm sure everyone under 2 mil NS is devastated right now
[/quote]

Gramlins should be very worried, then.

I don't think this thread makes either GOONS or NATO look good. NATO was obviously dragging their feet. Even so, taking 92% of the reps and then making a big deal about it in the forums doesn't make any sense.

Honestly, I don' think NATO could have made GOONS happy no matter what they did. Send the aid fast, send the aid slow, no matter what, I'm pretty sure GOONS would be complaining.

For instance, in the OP GOONS says they waived reps from The Shadow Proclamation (previously ADI).

[quote]As glad as they were that the reparations were being paid, massive amounts of tech deals were being disrupted by the aid. Because of that, and because of the problems and obstacles that always occur in this kind of restructuring, the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism once again waived all reparations due from what was once the Aqua Defense Initiative.[/quote]

So actually paying the reps wasn't enough to make them happy.

I also find it odd that they were getting reps from The Foreign Division, who they admit they didn't even fight. However, I don't know the background, I don't know where *any* of these reps come from, so I'll withhold judgment as best I can.

[Biazt]

[quote name='Baldr' date='16 May 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1274066048' post='2300861']
So actually paying the reps wasn't enough to make them happy.
[/quote]
Hey look you skipped the second part of the paragraph you were quoting!

[quote]
However, I don't know the background, I don't know where *any* of these reps come from, so I'll withhold judgment as best I can.
[/quote]
If you wish to withhold judgment you probably shouldn't post at all

[Alterego]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 May 2010 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1274039644' post='2300140']
The Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism will impose additional reparations as victors in future wars in order to recoup these losses. All reparations will be due on strict timelines, with penalties for not meeting deadlines.
[/quote]
You guys didnt learn a thing from Gramlins did you? Charging others for reps that NATO didnt pay and reps that rewrite themselves will be a clever move considering you arent exactly a powerhouse alliance. What you are doing is the same as unconditional surrender and will guarantee people will fight on rather than signing unlimited reps most likely with massive public support. The final reps are unknown and can be changed over and over. Hey how are the former power house alliance Gramlins doing these days.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Alterego

[Biazt]

[quote name='Alterego' date='16 May 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1274066325' post='2300867']
You guys didnt learn a thing from Gramlins did you? Charging others for reps that NATO didnt pay and reps that rewrite themselves will be a clever move considering you arent exactly a powerhouse alliance. What you are doing is the same as unconditional surrender and will guarantee people will fight on rather than signing unlimited reps most likely with massive public support. The final reps are unknown and can be changed over and over. Hey how are the former power house alliance Gramlins doing these days.
[/quote]
Your entire post is basically a logical fallacy

[Olreich]

It has come to my attention that NATO was indeed not fulfilling their end of the bargain on the GOONS reps. After a lengthy conversation and verification with Biazt, it seems that as of today, NATO is behind schedule by 7 days and is 5 million dollars short of it's initial contractual obligation (assuming that the aid that was supposed to be sent has been sent yet, otherwise, we may owe as much as 23 million in reparations before it is waived).

The reason for this delinquency of debt is my lack of stringency in the task. Anu Drake wished to pay it all on his own, and, doing a bad calculation I thought that it would put us behind schedule by 2 days to allow him to pay the remainder himself. This bad calculation of mine has led to here.

As of April 11th, 2010, NATO had paid $66 million of it's obligation, at which point fw came to us asking that we set a timetable, and we determined that $30 million per 2 weeks was a fair time table in which to complete. Since then we have paid $54 million in additional reparations (including reported lack of acceptance of aid as well as today's aid). This additional $54 million was paid by Anu Drake, as per his request.

I apologize to the Goon Order for the lack of integrity shown by this. I wish it luck in extracting that additional $5 million and 7 days out of it's future war path.

Thank you,

Olreich
NATO Minister of Commerce

[size="1"][b]Reason for Edit:[/b] An "I" and an "of mine" was missing in the second paragraph, making it seem that Anu was the culprit of the miscalculation rather than myself.[/size]

Edited May 17, 2010 by Olreich

[Alterego]

[quote name='Biazt' date='17 May 2010 - 04:22 AM' timestamp='1274066525' post='2300873']
Your entire post is basically a logical fallacy
[/quote]
Surrendering without knowing the full and final amount of reperations is the same as an unconditional surrender. Charging other alliances for the reps another alliance (NATO)was due to pay in a different war. What do I have wrong?

[Biazt]

[quote name='Olreich' date='16 May 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1274066863' post='2300879']
It has come to my attention that NATO was indeed not fulfilling their end of the bargain on the GOONS reps. After a lengthy conversation and verification with Biazt, it seems that as of today, NATO is behind schedule by 7 days and is 5 million dollars short of it's initial contractual obligation (assuming that the aid that was supposed to be sent has been sent yet, otherwise, we may owe as much as 23 million in reparations before it is waived).

The reason for this delinquency of debt is my lack of stringency in the task. Anu Drake wished to pay it all on his own, and, doing a bad calculation thought that it would put us behind schedule by 2 days to allow him to pay the remainder himself. This bad calculation has led to here.

As of April 11th, 2010, NATO had paid $66 million of it's obligation, at which point fw came to us asking that we set a timetable, and we determined that $30 million per 2 weeks was a fair time table in which to complete. Since then we have paid $54 million in additional reparations (including reported lack of acceptance of aid as well as today's aid). This additional $54 million was paid by Anu Drake, as per his request.

I apologize to the Goon Order for the lack of integrity shown by this. I wish it luck in extracting that additional $5 million and 7 days out of it's future war path.

Thank you,

Olreich
NATO Minister of Commerce
[/quote]

I can confirm that we did have this conversation. I thank NATO for being so candid about the situation.

[Devilyn Caster]

As a fellow Econ guy in an alliance receiving reps, I can sympathize with how GOONS feels (Thankfully I've managed to work with a very competent person in NPO ). Nothing pisses me off more than not having my own alliance's slots available for inter-alliance programs, it kills all my brilliance in alliance growth

As for NATO, I really don't see why this Anu guy has to send the whole thing. You owed 125mil? Pretty sure you could send it out in one go, quite easily and efficiently. Anyways, seems to be water under the bridge. I am glad to see that TFD paid their reps in full and efficiently, rounding out my opinion of your alliance quite well

GOONS, lesson learned mates-ya need a plan and a timetable so nothing gets screwed up. Next war you'll have to put this new policy to practice

[Baldr]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 May 2010 - 10:18 PM' timestamp='1274066271' post='2300866']
Hey look you skipped the second part of the paragraph you were quoting![/quote]

I don't think I skipped anything. They were paying reps, and that made you unhappy because it used some of your aid slots, so you waived the reps.

[quote]If you wish to withhold judgment you probably shouldn't post at all[/quote]

I was sort of hoping someone would explain why you are (or were) getting these reps - in particular those from an alliance you never fought. Of course, if you don't care to explain it, I'll just have to make my judgment based on what I do know.

[Biazt]

[quote name='Baldr' date='16 May 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1274068397' post='2300903']
I don't think I skipped anything. They were paying reps, and that made you unhappy because it used some of your aid slots, so you waived the reps.
[/quote]
Try again.

[quote]
I was sort of hoping someone would explain why you are (or were) getting these reps - in particular those from an alliance you never fought. Of course, if you don't care to explain it, I'll just have to make my judgment based on what I do know.
[/quote]
They're paying for the commies

[Baldr]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 May 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1274068482' post='2300907']
Try again.[/quote]

Okay.

From the original post :

[quote]The second of these alliances is the Aqua Defense Initiative. After the disbandment of the alliance, it reformed into The Shadow Proclamation. The Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism was contacted by a government officer of The Shadow Proclamation and informed that reparations would continue to be sent. When their word was followed up, mixed feelings came from the government at the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism. As glad as they were that the reparations were being paid, massive amounts of tech deals were being disrupted by the aid. Because of that, and because of the problems and obstacles that always occur in this kind of restructuring, the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism once again waived all reparations due from what was once the Aqua Defense Initiative.
[/quote]


Which part are you disputing? That they were paying reps? It says, right there in the OP, that they were paying reps.

That it made GOONS unhappy? It says, right there, that it was disrupting tech deals, and causing (in the words of the OP) 'problems and obstacles'.

That you waived reps? It says you waived the reps due to the "problems and obstacles".

I don't think I skipped anything. They were paying reps, and that made you unhappy because it used some of your aid slots, so you waived the reps.

And now you are trying to use it as part of some silly PR stunt. Just like you are doing with the NATO reps that are over 90% paid.

There is at least one point where we agree. Reps should have either a time frame, or a minimum payment. (X amount a month, for instance.) Reps with no time limit seem to be just begging for trouble.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Baldr

[Biazt]

[quote name='Baldr' date='17 May 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1274069196' post='2300918']
Okay.

From the original post :




Which part are you disputing? That they were paying reps? It says, right there in the OP, that they were paying reps.

That it made GOONS unhappy? It says, right there, that it was disrupting tech deals, and causing (in the words of the OP) 'problems and obstacles'.

That you waived reps? It says you waived the reps due to the "problems and obstacles".

I don't think I skipped anything. They were paying reps, and that made you unhappy because it used some of your aid slots, so you waived the reps.

And now you are trying to use it as part of some silly PR stunt. Just like you are doing with the NATO reps that are over 90% paid.

There is at least one point where we agree. Reps should have either a time frame, or a minimum payment. (X amount a month, for instance.) Reps with no time limit seem to be just begging for trouble.
[/quote]

Good grief man I gave you two tries. Here you go:

[quote]because of the problems and obstacles that always occur in this kind of restructuring, the Goon Order of Oppression, Negligence, and Sadism once again waived all reparations due from what was once the Aqua Defense Initiative.[/quote]

[WarriorConcept]

While I can see why you would be slightly annoyed at how slow you were getting your reps, it really is your own fault for giving them an unlimited time table to pay off the reps. Instead of adjusting that policy for the future, promising to extract this money from future war combatant seems kind of silly.

[Biazt]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='17 May 2010 - 12:10 AM' timestamp='1274069424' post='2300926']
While I can see why you would be slightly annoyed at how slow you were getting your reps, it really is your own fault for giving them an unlimited time table to pay off the reps. Instead of adjusting that policy for the future, promising to extract this money from future war combatant seems kind of silly.
[/quote]
I'm sure Canik will be fine with it.

[QuotingTheCrow]

NATO was obviously abusing goons' kindness.

Good show, goons.

[heggo]

So NATO made a math error and, instead of back-channeling, you rolled the circus into town? Way to go GOONS, you clearly understand how diplomacy works.

Edited May 17, 2010 by heggo

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='heggo' date='17 May 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1274070447' post='2300945']
So NATO made a math error, and instead of back-channeling, you rolled the circus into town? Way to go GOONS, you clearly understand how diplomacy works.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure in this thread both parties have admitted to back-channeling regarding the speed of the payments.

[heggo]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='16 May 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1274070533' post='2300946']
I'm pretty sure in this thread both parties have admitted to back-channeling regarding the speed of the payments.
[/quote]
They pretty obviously didn't backchannel over NATO's math mistake.

Edit: I mean, honestly WC, if they backchanneled over NATO being slightly delayed with their reps, this thread would never have come into existence. That's pretty hard to deny.

Edited May 17, 2010 by heggo

[Biazt]

[quote name='heggo' date='17 May 2010 - 12:27 AM' timestamp='1274070447' post='2300945']
So NATO made a math error and, instead of back-channeling, you rolled the circus into town? Way to go GOONS, you clearly understand how diplomacy works.
[/quote]
Just give it up man, NATO apologized. There's nothing to see here except your personal vendetta against GOONS.

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='16 May 2010 - 06:02 PM' timestamp='1274047314' post='2300385']
11m out of 125m as per numbers seen on this thread. [b]NATO has paid [u]92%[/u] of the reps[/b] apparently.
[/quote]
Oh. So this is a political stunt. And not a very well thought out one, either.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='heggo' date='17 May 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1274070612' post='2300948']
They pretty obviously didn't backchannel over NATO's math mistake.

Edit: I mean, honestly WC, if they backchanneled over NATO being slightly delayed with their reps, this thread would never have come into existence. That's pretty hard to deny.
[/quote]

It would be hard to deny if there weren't posts here by both GOONS and NATO confirming the back channel talks regarding the slow payments.

[Iserlohn]

[quote name='Olreich' date='16 May 2010 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1274066863' post='2300879']
It has come to my attention that NATO was indeed not fulfilling their end of the bargain on the GOONS reps. After a lengthy conversation and verification with Biazt, it seems that as of today, NATO is behind schedule by 7 days and is 5 million dollars short of it's initial contractual obligation (assuming that the aid that was supposed to be sent has been sent yet, otherwise, we may owe as much as 23 million in reparations before it is waived).

The reason for this delinquency of debt is my lack of stringency in the task. Anu Drake wished to pay it all on his own, and, doing a bad calculation I thought that it would put us behind schedule by 2 days to allow him to pay the remainder himself. This bad calculation of mine has led to here.

As of April 11th, 2010, NATO had paid $66 million of it's obligation, at which point fw came to us asking that we set a timetable, and we determined that $30 million per 2 weeks was a fair time table in which to complete. Since then we have paid $54 million in additional reparations (including reported lack of acceptance of aid as well as today's aid). This additional $54 million was paid by Anu Drake, as per his request.

I apologize to the Goon Order for the lack of integrity shown by this. I wish it luck in extracting that additional $5 million and 7 days out of it's future war path.

Thank you,

Olreich
NATO Minister of Commerce

[size="1"][b]Reason for Edit:[/b] An "I" and an "of mine" was missing in the second paragraph, making it seem that Anu was the culprit of the miscalculation rather than myself.[/size]
[/quote]

Just quoting this to anybody who is skimming through this thread quickly and may miss the earlier mentions. The issue was dealt with and is resolved.

Thank you all for playing, especially the New Sith Order. No need to turn your bicycles around, you can just backpedal.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Iserlohn

[heggo]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' date='16 May 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1274070813' post='2300953']
It would be hard to deny if there weren't posts here by both GOONS and NATO confirming the back channel talks regarding the slow payments.
[/quote]
I was going to post a big reply with something pointing out the age of those discussions and the fact that if the math thing had been discussed before this thread was posted, it never would've been an issue. But then I remembered that arguing with WC is one of the more fruitless things a fellow can engage in, and gave up.

[Homeboy]

Wow...bad show goons.

I feel bad for NATO being bad mouthed publicly like this for something so stupid.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='heggo' date='17 May 2010 - 12:40 AM' timestamp='1274071186' post='2300959']
I was going to post a big reply with something pointing out the age of those discussions and the fact that if the math thing had been discussed before this thread was posted, it never would've been an issue. But then I remembered that arguing with WC is one of the more fruitless things a fellow can engage in, and gave up.
[/quote]

I don't believe the math miscalculation was an issue for GOONS, more the slowness of the payment. Which you know, is the reason they approached NATO in the first place before posting this thread.