GOONS Reparations Announcement

[AirMe]

[quote name='Lenny N Karl' date='16 May 2010 - 07:18 PM' timestamp='1274051898' post='2300561']
Since there was no time line, Anu Drake asked to pay off the reps himself, we obliged his request (which was more of a demand actually...you all know him.). I have seen you around these forums for a long time and know that you are one of the sharpest guys here. You know why they posted this thread as much I as do, but I hold no ill will against your concerns and complaints since we seem to always view the glass of water in different ways. Our friends will hail us, and GOONS friends will hail them. it is how things always end up when these discussions happen.

You notice that you rarely see a NATO nation posting ratings/opinions of leaders, alliances, or nations? That is because we are NOT here to rock the boat. We are here for community, diplomacy and the company of friends and allies.
[/quote]

As much as I respect Anu, presumably he has 6 slots. You should have had 6 nations send out the reps and then have Anu pay them. It is idiotic to say you didn't pay the reps because Anu wanted to pay them all himself. He is a reasonable man and understands that getting these done and over with would have been better for NATO instead of this route.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Lenny N Karl' date='16 May 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1274051898' post='2300561']
Since there was no time line, Anu Drake asked to pay off the reps himself, we obliged his request (which was more of a demand actually...you all know him.).
[/quote]

translation: "because GOONS decided to treat us like grownups, we decided to dawdle as much as we physically could, to the point of essentially using it as an insult"

[shahenshah]

[quote name='AirMe' date='17 May 2010 - 04:11 AM' timestamp='1274051442' post='2300552']
Just because there is no schedule doesn't mean they can shut the flow of reps down to a drop. If NATO had properly relayed that information to GOONS this announcement probably would not have been made.

Again, I don't agree with the tact or the future threat that is put in this announcement. But I do understand why they are ticked.
[/quote]

If the flow was shut, NATO wouldnt have been 92% done with the reps and 1 cycle away from completing it. You cannot put all miscommunication errors on NATO when NATO claims they setup a schedule with GOONS co-pilot (assuming GOONS #2) and rest of the alliance comes here claiming there isnt any. I'll assume both sides are telling the truth, so there has to be miscommunication at both ends and not just NATO or just GOONS. The best part is there is a solution to this offered by NATO and that is they'll complete the reps.

One cant really ask NATO to do more after what GOONS attempted to pull here. As I suggested earlier, GOONS [u]can[/u]: settle it out, shake hands, go there merry ways. NATO has put forward the hand. Need two for a shake.

Edited May 16, 2010 by shahenshah

[Anu Drake]

[IMG]http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/AnuDrake/goonspeace.jpg[/IMG]

I think I can be forgiven to post in this thread since I am mentioned. The individual nations I've been aiding throughout this have been cool and enjoyable to work with. There was no timetable, and due to the history I have personally with GOONS (last one, not this one), I wanted to put the rebuilding of my nation on hold and take the burden of the reps on my shoulders alone. Despite the fact that the old alliance disbanded and we fought a several month war with them and never received as much as a hello when they came back. Where are our reps for 'winning' that war? This GOONS jumped on NATO after we were already at war with 8 or 9 alliances at the time and demanded reps despite the fact that they were only hitting our already destroyed small nations, bragging about the fact that we were so 'weak' and taking every opportunity to troll us since then.

With all of that said, why would I volunteer to pay the reps off myself? One, it was in the hope that the aforementioned manner in which the reps were agreed to wouldn't cause all of our members to have a continuous hatred of GOONS (extortion was already being bantered around). Two, its just money and my alliance comes above that. The offer to double up each aid package with tech to shorten the time frame was rejected (that's fine, understandable that you want to keep the small nations in tech circles). If we were on a schedule we would have used far more resources and my personal offer would have been cast aside. Lessons learned.

[Yukon Don]

If you seriously didn't set a time limit on the reps, then you really don't have any ground to stand on when complaining about the rate of repayment. There is a reason that loan companies give due dates on payments. If you wanted payments at a certain rate then set a deadline....if you want them to have freedom to pay at their own rate, then back off and let them do so.

Diplomacy isn't my strong suit, but at least I know to only accept an agreement that covers my position.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='AirMe' date='16 May 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1274052065' post='2300565']
As much as I respect Anu, presumably he has 6 slots. You should have had 6 nations send out the reps and then have Anu pay them. It is idiotic to say you didn't pay the reps because Anu wanted to pay them all himself. He is a reasonable man and understands that getting these done and over with would have been better for NATO instead of this route.
[/quote]

Anu could have kept reparations coming in, 6 slots, every 10 days to GOONS, but that's not what Anu did.

5/15 - $9 mill
5/9 - $3 mill
5/5 - $3 mill
5/4 - $6 mill
4/21 - $9 mill

Total - $30 mill

So is it a NATO problem, an Anu problem, or is GOONS being particularly silly?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='16 May 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1274053038' post='2300584']
Anu could have kept reparations coming in, 6 slots, every 10 days to GOONS, but that's not what Anu did.

5/15 - $9 mill
5/9 - $3 mill
5/5 - $3 mill
5/4 - $6 mill
4/21 - $9 mill

Total - $30 mill

So is it a NATO problem, an Anu problem, or is GOONS being particularly silly?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]You're checking his aid history. We can be sure Anu hasn't deleted anything, but whether or not the GOONS on the other end have we can't be sure. I have a feeling he's been sending a steady steam of 9 mil each cycle, and for the last one would have put an additional 2 mil to finish it off.[/color]

[AtheistRepublican]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='16 May 2010 - 04:37 PM' timestamp='1274053038' post='2300584']
Anu could have kept reparations coming in, 6 slots, every 10 days to GOONS, but that's not what Anu did.

5/15 - $9 mill
5/9 - $3 mill
5/5 - $3 mill
5/4 - $6 mill
4/21 - $9 mill

Total - $30 mill

So is it a NATO problem, an Anu problem, or is GOONS being particularly silly?
[/quote]

Some of those expired ones have been deleted. He's sent a bit more than that. We've also had other nations helping out with aids during our aid falls, but I don't have the logs to post that atm. We'll pass those along to the GOONS when our Minister of Commerce comes around.

EDIT: To clarify, Anu was sending a bulk of the payments since April 11th, but we'd already sent a fourth of reps at that point, and other nations besides Anu have been sending other slots as well when assigned by our MoC.

Edited May 16, 2010 by AtheistRepublican

[Anu Drake]

[quote name='AirMe' date='16 May 2010 - 07:21 PM' timestamp='1274052065' post='2300565']
As much as I respect Anu, presumably he has 6 slots. You should have had 6 nations send out the reps and then have Anu pay them. It is idiotic to say you didn't pay the reps because Anu wanted to pay them all himself. He is a reasonable man and understands that getting these done and over with would have been better for NATO instead of this route.
[/quote]

And I would have done that, no problems. But it didn't seem that there was that much resistance to the plan. I saw it as a sort of directed graduation bonuses or whatever GOONS does with their new members. But I'm not an elected official so I don't know what the higher level conversations were (and I don't go on IRC), so it was a case where I'd get a list every 10 days, send the aid out and from the back and forth I received from GOONS nations there didn't seem to be a problem. Looking back, if we knew this would be the outcome, of course I wouldn't have offered or 'demanded' (shut up Lenny) to do this. Just like looking back we should have known that not having set out a specific repayment schedule was walking into a vulnerable pr situation.

[Anu Drake]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='16 May 2010 - 07:37 PM' timestamp='1274053038' post='2300584']
Anu could have kept reparations coming in, 6 slots, every 10 days to GOONS, but that's not what Anu did.

5/15 - $9 mill
5/9 - $3 mill
5/5 - $3 mill
5/4 - $6 mill
4/21 - $9 mill

Total - $30 mill

So is it a NATO problem, an Anu problem, or is GOONS being particularly silly?
[/quote]

I haven't deleted any aid. I've had 6 slots going to GOONS nations at all time since I started the payments. The days are off in some cases because I had to wait a day or two to get new names to send to and (shocker) every once in a while I had to actually wait until I had enough money to send it. In one case on this last round, one of the nations was deleted so I was waiting on the new name. In this same cycle I sent aid to someone who asked me to send it to someone else last cycle but had not updated the list so I sent it to him again and was waiting for a new name.

[Mathias]

Don't let them off easy GOONS, either make them pay or just take it from them.

[heggo]

[quote name='Mathias' date='16 May 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1274054361' post='2300613']
Don't let them off easy GOONS, either make them pay or just take it from them.
[/quote]
Somehow I doubt GOONS will go to war for the 11 million they were going to get next week anyway.

[Eric Cantona]

You really don't need to show the world you're all silly: stop breaking the rules.

[Believland]

NATO, you're lucky that GOONS are such quality people. If you would have done this for another alliance they would've wrecked you... or would've let you pay the 11 mil without bashing you or at least trying to.

[Bob Janova]

So wait, you're starting a thread with the main intention of bashing NATO and a secondary purpose of 'justifying' placing harsher terms on the next alliance you roll into war with, over [i]eleven million[/i]? That's just a PR stunt. Poor show GOONS.

[Jasmines Jewels]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 May 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1274046663' post='2300370']NATO did not propose any timetable, so obviously we did not agree to it. Until NATO posted in this thread [b]we weren't even aware they using using a SINGLE nation to pay reps, and thus how much a cycle is. So no, we did not know there was one cycle left.[/b][/quote]

I'm mostly curious about this bold part. As someone who has been handling reps for quite a few months now, I find it odd how you're posting ignorance on behalf of NATO when you plainly state here that you've been ignorant of the process for months.

Now such brings me to conclude that either you're doing this for attention or well I guess I have no or.

[heggo]

Not to mention that GOONS seemed to have no objection to this system for the first 50% or so of the terms.

[Corinan]

You know GOONS, not [i]all[/i] PR is good PR. I'll cite this thread as an example. Live and learn.

[Jrenster]

Sounds like GOONS were the ones being incompetent about the reparations process. You tried to feign leniency by allowing them freedom in paying reparations when in fact there's nothing lenient about paying reparations as a whole. So why bother? You either make them pay the proper way, in a strict and timely fashion, or you don't. It's probably better if you don't because reparations are mostly stupid.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Jrenster

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='AtheistRepublican' date='16 May 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1274053302' post='2300591']
Some of those expired ones have been deleted. He's sent a bit more than that. We've also had other nations helping out with aids during our aid falls, but I don't have the logs to post that atm. We'll pass those along to the GOONS when our Minister of Commerce comes around.

EDIT: To clarify, Anu was sending a bulk of the payments since April 11th, but we'd already sent a fourth of reps at that point, and other nations besides Anu have been sending other slots as well when assigned by our MoC.
[/quote]

Just based on the scant evidence I found, it's pretty clear that NATO was sending GOONS payments, that Anu Drake was responsible for at least $30 mill of those payments since April.

I honestly don't see a justification for such an obvious display of dissatisfaction with the pace of payments, particularly in light of the fact that there were no deadlines stipulated in the treaty.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='heggo' date='16 May 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1274056384' post='2300657']
Not to mention that GOONS seemed to have no objection to this system for the first 50% or so of the terms.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]At least. Considering 90% had already been paid by the time GOONS decided that had "had enough," or in other words just one more cycle, you have to wonder why GOONS is really doing this.[/color]

[Haflinger]

This kinda reads to me as though a certain person that is now exiled from GOONS was handling relations with NATO, and when he was thrown out, the remaining GOONS decided to make an angry topic here for no apparent purpose other than to threaten the next alliance that surrenders to them with a draconian 11M escalation in reps demands.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Lord Rune' date='16 May 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1274040002' post='2300152']
Why not roll them for breach of terms?

edit:spelling.
[/quote]

Same thing I was thinking. Especialy with it being GOONS. GOONS are supposed to be the most evil of the evil. It appears from this incident and all the other stories it tells GOONS actualy has a heart.

Good show Goons

[AnCapistan]

I don't see why you guys (GOONS) wouldn't have just waited. It's not like this is causing you any trouble.

[Bilrow]

Active Aid By Anu

[quote]NATO 2010-05-15 17:55:09 Antarctican Republic Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-15 07:38:04 Iserlohn Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-15 07:37:32 Canuckistan Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-15 07:37:02 Lederhosen Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-09 12:30:44 Xodidox Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 [/quote]


Expired Aid By Anu

[quote]NATO 2010-05-05 01:33:45 Spicon Goon Order of Oppression Negligence And Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-04 09:15:29 United Trailer Parks Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-04 09:14:56 Dreaded Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-04 09:14:17 Antarctican Republic Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-04 09:13:36 gozeria lane Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-05-04 09:13:04 Serenity Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-24 00:11:05 Akanyala Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-22 08:06:46 Poptarts Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-21 10:54:18 Astronomy Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-21 10:53:34 Kuponia Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-21 10:53:03 Northarcticisland Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-21 10:52:28 Shinano Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-13 10:04:55 Lavir Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-12 08:16:34 Maide Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-11 18:57:05 Xodidox Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-11 18:56:41 Lavir Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-11 18:56:10 Poopsylvania Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-11 18:55:34 Crieos Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-04-11 18:54:19 Wezt Zimbabwe Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0
NATO 2010-03-08 08:14:11 Lavir Goon Order of Oppression Negligence and Sadism 3000000 0 0[/quote]

But regardless of that if you didn't specify a time frame in the Terms of Surrender you have nothing to complain about.