GOONS Reparations Announcement

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Lamuella' date='16 May 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1274050231' post='2300487']
the most funny thing is how much NSO think they know about other people's business.
[/quote]

We're Omniscient, Lam, didn't you know that?

edit: cue GATO's Omniscent



Archanis: Do you have anything resembling a point or an argument?

Edited May 16, 2010 by KainIIIC

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='16 May 2010 - 06:53 PM' timestamp='1274050378' post='2300496']
_Does_ _using_ _this_ make me _look_ cool yet?
[/quote]

Yes, it most certainly does. I wish I was _cool_ like that. Did I do it right?

[Archanis]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='16 May 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1274050486' post='2300505']
Yes, it most certainly does. I wish I was _cool_ like that. Did I do it right?
[/quote]Oh, jeez, was that what I was doing? And here I thought it was a way of showing that a word was being stressed. God, what was I THINKING?

Thank you, NSO. For providing me with this incredible insight.

[Archanis]

[quote name='KainIIIC' date='16 May 2010 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1274050478' post='2300504']
We're Omniscient, Lam, didn't you know that?

edit: cue GATO's Omniscent



Archanis: Do you have anything resembling a point or an argument?
[/quote]A hilarious question, given this is your first post here. So I'm curious - do YOU?

[AirMe]

Having not read the rest of this other than the original announcement. There was a time when if you missed 1 reparation payment that NATO and friends would threaten violence and eventually attack the offending alliance, they are lucky to have an alliance like GOONS who would rather waive the reps instead of escalating it the way it has in the past.

That being said, GOONs could have been a little more tactful with this announcement but it is their right to state it the way they did.

It has always been my opinion that reps need to be taken care of like taking a band aid off...no matter how much it hurts, just get it over with.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 May 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1274048731' post='2300432']
Here are the facts, and I don't think NATO will disagree with this.

Reps are set at 125m on Feb 20th.
Reps are coming in very slowly, so on April 10th our CoPilot contacts NATO.
NATO rudely tells us that no time limit was set in the surrender terms and that they'll make us wait as long as they like.
NATO uses 1 nation to send reps every 10 days to pay reps.
Offended at how slowly NATO is still sending reps, we post this thread.

Would you like to dispute any of that? IRC Logs will back this up.
[/quote]


So what you're saying is that you gave them permission to take their sweet time in sending the reps, decided you wanted them faster, they declined to send them faster, so you wait a whole month until they're just about done paying you so you can come try to pitch a fit about it on the OWF.

Here's the rub. You're GOONS. As much as folks may dislike and not respect NATO, you're still GOONS. You were purged once from the Cyberverse for behaving as GOONS so often do, and you came back. Folks are obviously wary of you, and this crap right here, along with the crap you've been pulling with OOC attacks is not going to win you any points with folks here. The fact that people are actually taking NATO's side should tell you something. The court of public opinion is not in your favor, and that never bodes well for an alliance in this Cyberverse.

[heggo]

[quote name='Archanis' date='16 May 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1274050460' post='2300503']
I don't contradict things that you're either refusing to post or don't have. Let's see them, and then we'll talk.
[/quote]
You want me to log dump my ally's stuff? Is that how GOONS does business? Uh, I think I'll leave it to NATO to choose where their logs go.

[JamezBfod]

[quote name='Archanis' date='16 May 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1274050642' post='2300511']
Oh, jeez, was that what I was doing? And here I thought it was a way of showing that a word was being stressed. God, what was I THINKING?

Thank you, NSO. For providing me with this incredible insight.
[/quote]

There [i]are[/i] [b]better[/b] ways to [u]do[/u] it, though. I'm with them on that one. Sorry mate.

Edited May 16, 2010 by JamezBfod

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' date='16 May 2010 - 05:47 PM' timestamp='1274046435' post='2300362']
Hey look, a wall of text that has no original content. Just the same boring accusations you and many others have been hurling in our direction and our allies direction for the past year. Would you give it a rest? or at least come up with something new. It's like using the word -gate as a suffix for political disasters only longer and asinine.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]If you fellows don't like me pointing out your abuses of power and continued hypocrisy then I suggest you take that into consideration before you act. I have always been a firm believer that all injustice, and any injustice, should be brought to the public attention and never lived down until the offender has answered for it. That was my philosophy in regards to the NPO's dominance and it remains so with you and your ilk. You can ignore me all you like but at the end of the day you and everybody knows what I say is true.[/color]

[LokiLockpicker]

[quote name='AirMe' date='16 May 2010 - 05:58 PM' timestamp='1274050703' post='2300514']
Having not read the rest of this other than the original announcement. There was a time when if you missed 1 reparation payment that NATO and friends would threaten violence and eventually attack the offending alliance, they are lucky to have an alliance like GOONS who would rather waive the reps instead of escalating it the way it has in the past.

That being said, GOONs could have been a little more tactful with this announcement but it is their right to state it the way they did.

It has always been my opinion that reps need to be taken care of like taking a band aid off...no matter how much it hurts, just get it over with.
[/quote]

My understanding of the OP is that they did not miss a payment, as no required schedule was set up originally.

And after reading the thread, this is rather funny. Just let the GOONS be, either they are being nice, out of what they consider their character, or they are just doing a massive PR slander, either way no amount of posting on either side will convince people more than they are right now.

[ratonbox]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='17 May 2010 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1274045600' post='2300338']
/me checks Alliance Affiliation.

[/quote]
Pretty much this.
Almost every post over here is based on AA. One side of the treaty web: "Yay GOONS", the other side "Bad show, GOONS".
This is how I see it: NATO was acting childish by dragging on the terms. GOONS are acting childish by raising all this ruckus for 11 mil. So, NATO, just like somebody said before, just find 4 people that are online on IRC and get it over with the reps.. it's 11 mil, it isn't worth it.
Also, GOONS, next time when you set reps, use a timetable. It will save you trouble.

Edited May 16, 2010 by ratonbox

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='AirMe' date='16 May 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1274050703' post='2300514']
Having not read the rest of this other than the original announcement. There was a time when if you missed 1 reparation payment that NATO and friends would threaten violence and eventually attack the offending alliance, they are lucky to have an alliance like GOONS who would rather waive the reps instead of escalating it the way it has in the past.

That being said, GOONs could have been a little more tactful with this announcement but it is their right to state it the way they did.

It has always been my opinion that reps need to be taken care of like taking a band aid off...no matter how much it hurts, just get it over with.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]How about you read NATO's response before jumping to conclusions. The terms allowed NATO to take as long as they wanted to pay the reps. They decided to take that time. There were no payment deadlines. When GOONS decided to waive the reps NATO had already paid 92% as was only one cycle away from completing the terms. NATO has done no wrong here. All we have is GOONS looking to make an issue out of nothing.[/color]

[Archanis]

[quote name='heggo' date='16 May 2010 - 06:59 PM' timestamp='1274050764' post='2300519']
You want me to log dump my ally's stuff? Is that how GOONS does business? Uh, I think I'll leave it to NATO to choose where their logs go.
[/quote]Did I say that? All I said was that I'm not going to "contradict" your logs until I've seen them. As I have not, why should I believe you even have them? As one genius said to biazt earlier.

[quote]Those logs probably don't exist, so I'm not so worried by the threat of you dumping them.[/QUOTE]

If only I could remember who that was...

[Lenny N Karl]

[quote name='AirMe' date='16 May 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1274050703' post='2300514']
Having not read the rest of this other than the original announcement. There was a time when if you missed 1 reparation payment that NATO and friends would threaten violence and eventually attack the offending alliance, they are lucky to have an alliance like GOONS who would rather waive the reps instead of escalating it the way it has in the past.

That being said, GOONs could have been a little more tactful with this announcement but it is their right to state it the way they did.

It has always been my opinion that reps need to be taken care of like taking a band aid off...no matter how much it hurts, just get it over with.
[/quote]

Incorrect Airme. NATO has always had a reputation for waiving reps, either all or most in all wars where we had reps due. All the anti-NATO rhetoric is sorely misplaced and I have never understood it. No alliance out there has not made a mistake or two, we have always been open to new views or talks with almost anyone. As for GOONS, we were following the terms to the fullest, this is just another childish attempt to demean yet another alliance.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Biazt' date='16 May 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1274049188' post='2300443']
Ad hominems then? Stay classy, ChairmanHal.
[/quote]

A lecture on class coming from GOONS?

Look, you had a chance to be classy in the OP. Your alliance blew it. Everything from that point forward becoming a mud slinging contest.

[heggo]

[quote name='Archanis' date='16 May 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1274051042' post='2300538']
Did I say that? All I said was that I'm not going to "contradict" your logs until I've seen them.
[/quote]
Actually, you did ask for that. You just did it again. I can't ethically dump my ally's logs- that's their business. On the other hand, you can release your logs since they are *yours* and all. Anyway, hopefully this issue will be fully resolved before I come back to the OWF from dinner.

[kevin32891]

o/ NATO for showing GOONS doesn't have those stones.

To GOONS.
[img]http://www.manorhg.com/store/images/MT_Toscana_Rec_Tissue.jpg[/img]

[AirMe]

[quote name='Lenny N Karl' date='16 May 2010 - 07:06 PM' timestamp='1274051179' post='2300541']
Incorrect Airme. NATO has always had a reputation for waiving reps, either all or most in all wars where we had reps due. All the anti-NATO rhetoric is sorely misplaced and I have never understood it. No alliance out there has not made a mistake or two, we have always been open to new views or talks with almost anyone. As for GOONS, we were following the terms to the fullest, this is just another childish attempt to demean yet another alliance.
[/quote]

So why exactly were the reps not paid off already? The war has been over for how long?

[shahenshah]

[quote name='AirMe' date='17 May 2010 - 03:58 AM' timestamp='1274050703' post='2300514']
Having not read the rest of this other than the original announcement. There was a time when if you missed 1 reparation payment that NATO and friends would threaten violence and eventually attack the offending alliance, they are lucky to have an alliance like GOONS who would rather waive the reps instead of escalating it the way it has in the past.

That being said, GOONs could have been a little more tactful with this announcement but it is their right to state it the way they did.

It has always been my opinion that reps need to be taken care of like taking a band aid off...no matter how much it hurts, just get it over with.
[/quote]

1. NATO cannot miss any payment because:
i. There is no timeline according to the initial agreement signed. It wasnt as if NATO wasnt paying at all, they were just [u]1[/u] cycle away from completing the reps.
ii. According to GOONS, there isnt any schedule either (tho NATO said there was and GOON's copilot failed to informed rest of GOONs)
iii. NATO maintains the reps would be completed in next cycle and have kept the offer on table for GOONS despite the Pot-shot waiver. This remains unanswered from GOONS. Its just 11m left, 8% of the total reps.


I'd agree with your last statement.

Edited May 16, 2010 by shahenshah

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Archanis' date='16 May 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1274051042' post='2300538']
Did I say that? All I said was that I'm not going to "contradict" your logs until I've seen them. As I have not, why should I believe you even have them? As one genius said to biazt earlier.
[/quote]

It's common courtesy and common sense not to dump your allies' logs without their permission. I'm sorry that you lack that.

I still fail to see any coherence in what you're saying.

[AirMe]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='16 May 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1274051274' post='2300548']
1. NATO cannot miss any payment because:
i. There is no timeline according to the initial agreement signed.
ii. According to GOONS, there isnt any schedule either (tho NATO said there was and GOON's copilot failed to informed rest of GOONs)
iii. NATO maintains the reps would be completed in next cycle and have kept the offer on table for GOONS. This remains unanswered from GOONS. Its just 11m left, 8% of the total reps.


I'd agree with your last statement.
[/quote]

Just because there is no schedule doesn't mean they can shut the flow of reps down to a drop. If NATO had properly relayed that information to GOONS this announcement probably would not have been made.

Again, I don't agree with the tact or the future threat that is put in this announcement. But I do understand why they are ticked.

[Barnaby von Farter]

As a member of the international community who is presumably the target audience for this announcement: It would have been more forthcoming of GOONS to mention the amount NATO owed, what they had paid, and what remained to be paid within the OP, especially since we were given the nice chart showing details overall percentage amounts of incoming GOONS aid over the past 10 days. I think many people would have considered this announcement to be a bit tardy -- and less meaningful in terms of your "gracious" decision of waiving the remaining reps -- if it was made known that only 8% of the reps ($11 million) remained outstanding.

Every alliance has the freedom to attempt to make reparation amounts and timelines as lax or stringent as they can; hopefully folks aren't influenced either way by the news of GOONS' previous leniency or future heavy-handedness when it comes to reparations payments of the vanquished.

The announcement comes with some value though; it's good to know the other 2 alliances, despite their challenges, were able to follow through on fulfilling their obligations to GOONS.

And NATO: just because Anu Drake -- your Atlas amongst NATOans -- insists on paying these reps himself doesn't give you an excuse to drag your feet on this. It's amazing to me that you would need to be given a payment schedule instead of wanting to get these payments off your head as quickly as possible, especially given how small they were.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='AirMe' date='17 May 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1274051442' post='2300552']
Just because there is no schedule doesn't mean they can shut the flow of reps down to a drop. If NATO had properly relayed that information to GOONS this announcement probably would not have been made.

Again, I don't agree with the tact or the future threat that is put in this announcement. But I do understand why they are ticked.
[/quote]
Well, I guess technically they can. But, like you, I can also see why GOONs would be a little miffed about it. But, is that NATO's fault or is it GOONs fault for not enforcing a time frame?

11million is nothing. I say just pay it off and be done with it.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='AirMe' date='16 May 2010 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1274051442' post='2300552']
Just because there is no schedule doesn't mean they can shut the flow of reps down to a drop. If NATO had properly relayed that information to GOONS this announcement probably would not have been made.

Again, I don't agree with the tact or the future threat that is put in this announcement. But I do understand why they are ticked.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]NATO had spoken to the GOONS copilot in regards to the rate at which the reparations were to be paid. Either he failed to inform the rest of the government or GOONS is being dishonest here. However, you cannot say that NATO has failed to communicate with GOONS as they have sent money regularly for months and there has not been any complaint from GOONS until now.[/color]

[Lenny N Karl]

[quote name='AirMe' date='17 May 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1274051263' post='2300547']
So why exactly were the reps not paid off already? The war has been over for how long?
[/quote]

Since there was no time line, Anu Drake asked to pay off the reps himself, we obliged his request (which was more of a demand actually...you all know him.). I have seen you around these forums for a long time and know that you are one of the sharpest guys here. You know why they posted this thread as much I as do, but I hold no ill will against your concerns and complaints since we seem to always view the glass of water in different ways. Our friends will hail us, and GOONS friends will hail them. it is how things always end up when these discussions happen.

You notice that you rarely see a NATO nation posting ratings/opinions of leaders, alliances, or nations? That is because we are NOT here to rock the boat. We are here for community, diplomacy and the company of friends and allies.