Want bad PR, well you got it

[FeaR_LeSs]

I figured an alliance who wants to claim they are the best, should however be the best at what they do? Well I guess I was wrong. I bought tech from The Dark Templar member many weeks ago, the aid slot cleared on April 22nd. Its now May 11, 2010. I know this happens all the time but at least the government usually helps a bit or does stuff. Well when dealing with the Dark Templar I got exactly opposite. I simply asked for them to contact there member or for at least help. They claimed to have messaged there member but I am unsure how far that goes. But when asking them for a second time for help they responded with [quote]stfu, take your problem up with the dealer. We don't back tech deals, bro.[/quote]

I say this because I would like to let you ALL know who not to turn to if you are looking to buy tech. They used to be my old alliances, as you can see why. So just think twice before purchasing tech from them, or even asking for help when THEIR members don't do as they ask, or "follow" there leaders. Thats all

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

You got scammed?

Happens almost on a daily basis here. Best case scenario buy tech within your own alliance, or from alliances that are [i]known[/i] tech selling alliances, as they are more likely to ensure that their members ship the tech when due.

I think it might be a one off comment by an irritated member that you log-dumped. Most alliance governments i know would not react that way.

[Ashoka the Great]

Unless there is some kind of 'paper trial', I suspect you're on your own.

(Did you go through NOIR? If so....go complain there.)

[Lennox]

Sadly this thing happens all the time. Why don't you raid his nation (if you are in range) to get your tech

[Sal Paradise]

The only solution is to resort to violence.

[The Big Bad]

When do we get to the bad PR?

[FeaR_LeSs]

If only he was in my range..

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='FeaR_LeSs' date='11 May 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1273605993' post='2294972']
If only he was in my range..
[/quote]

or you could possibly give the nation name so that others do not tech deal with him.

[Mathias]

DT doesn't back up tech deals? For shame, for shame!

Seriously, this isn't bad PR, it's common sense. While I'd trust DT's members to come through on a tech deal, I wouldn't fault the entire alliance for one member being unreliable.

Or did you want us to get angry and do something about it for you?

[Sargun II]

It might have been someone else but I think I recently just bought like 500 tech from DT.

this thread is pointless

[octovanyo]

Yeah as said above it doesn't mean anything, and that quote is worthless without a name attached to it.

Edited May 11, 2010 by octovanyo

[Archanis]

While the quote is worthless without proof or names or whatever, it IS still obnoxious of DT for not following through on their member's tech deal.

As for whether or not it's bad PR, I can't say either way.

[Owned-You]

You should be ready for said risks when tech-dealing without any insurance.

Your should buy State-Farm tech insurance, it's rates are low these days with the reduced players market.

[Jakome]

while I do feel for you, coming in with a promise of bad press and a empty quote leaves something to be desired.

[Lord Brendan]

This was a pretty dumb way of going about this.

[Archanis]

[quote name='Jakome' date='11 May 2010 - 06:12 PM' timestamp='1273615959' post='2295241']
while I do feel for you, coming in with a promise of bad press and a empty quote leaves something to be desired.
[/quote]Yeah this is pretty much how I feel. He should've come on here using an edited screenshot sent to him by DT saying "ONCE WE FINISH SCAMMING YOU, WE'LL GO BACK TO RAPING ORPHANS! BAHAHAHAHAHA"

Or something. ANYTHING.

[GearHead]

Like many have said, it's not DT's fault that you got scammed.

However, as scamming is considered a punishable crime by most, and if nothing can be worked out between you and the "criminal," then does that not make that person an enemy of you, and thus an enemy of your alliance?

If so, should your alliance Govt not contact DT Govt about the matter and ask for his release so the "criminal" can be punished?

This should be the process of communication. It's never DT's fault unless they explicitly harbor the "enemy" of your alliance. If this happens, then yes, bad PR, go die in a hole, etc etc. But I don't think you're at that point yet...

[Monster]

Question: is the dealer still active? Is he reading your pms and then not doing anything?

You can fault the entire alliance if the leader in question is still taking care of his nation and no disciplinary action is being taken, as by allowing him to stay in the alliance with knowledge of him scamming someone, they are implicitly endorsing his actions. If it's some nation ruler who is no longer managing their nation, they can't expel said ruler and the culpability that comes with allowing a scammer to reside in your alliance doesn't come into play.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Antoine Roquentin

[Archanis]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' date='12 May 2010 - 04:51 AM' timestamp='1273654272' post='2295887']
Question: is the dealer still active? Is he reading your pms and then not doing anything?

You can fault the entire alliance if the dealer is still taking care of his nation and no disciplinary action is being taken, as by allowing him to stay in the alliance with knowledge of him scamming someone, they are implicitly endorsing his actions. If it's someone who is no longer managing their nation, then there's no culpability for the alliance.
[/quote]To be fair, I don`t think he`s saying they HAVE to reimburse them. I think what he`s saying is they _don`t_.

No, it`s not officially "on them" to pay him back for tech owed by some guy who went awol. But let's be honest here, they still SHOULD. Hell, WE do and we're GOONS - we're dicks to everyone! Yet, again, even OUR alliance knows that if a tech deal was going on with someone, and then that guy bails, we should try to cover them for the sake of not wanting people to think of us as bad people to deals with.

The more I think of this, the more I see the point of the OP. He's not here demanding money or demanding that someone "do something". This is just a "bad review", if you will. Like complaining on travelocity because the hotel you went to had a buffet that was consistently out of food. Is keeping it constantly full something that hotel HAS to do? No. Should they anyway for the sake of people not complaining about them? Definitely.

And, thus, the bad PR.

[nippy]

[quote name='Archanis' date='12 May 2010 - 11:31 AM' timestamp='1273656696' post='2295900']
To be fair, I don`t think he`s saying they HAVE to reimburse them. I think what he`s saying is they _don`t_.

No, it`s not officially "on them" to pay him back for tech owed by some guy who went awol. But let's be honest here, they still SHOULD. Hell, WE do and we're GOONS - we're dicks to everyone! Yet, again, even OUR alliance knows that if a tech deal was going on with someone, and then that guy bails, we should try to cover them for the sake of not wanting people to think of us as bad people to deals with.
[/quote]

That's not what Roq was saying. He said that DT's govt. should be taking action to make sure they're not harboring a tech scammer. Reimbursement wouldn't generally be the only course of action here, nor is it the most common. If the offending nation is active and is knowingly and intentionally tech scamming, DT should demand that the nation pay up or be expelled.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

I think what Archanis is saying is different. Even if a tech dealer goes inactive, the alliance he is part of, should step up and reimburse the buyer. That is what he is saying. Not really a bad idea. Either that, or release the scammer for punitive measures.

But of course this thread is unwarranted, having the OP's government talk to DT would have been a better course of action. Callouts never achieve restitution.

[nippy]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' date='12 May 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1273658139' post='2295911']
I think what Archanis is saying is different. Even if a tech dealer goes inactive, the alliance he is part of, should step up and reimburse the buyer. That is what he is saying. Not really a bad idea. Either that, or release the scammer for punitive measures.

But of course this thread is unwarranted, having the OP's government talk to DT would have been a better course of action. Callouts never achieve restitution.
[/quote]

If it's an alliance-organized tech deal, I agree with the reimbursement....but if it was a tech deal set up between the OP and the individual in question, the nation should be expelled from DT so the OP can arrange retribution. I do agree with your 'private chans ftw' sentiment, of course. DT doesn't deserve bad press over this, especially when we can't judge all of the OP's and DT's interactions based solely on a single quoted post.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='nippy' date='12 May 2010 - 11:16 AM' timestamp='1273659368' post='2295920']
If it's an alliance-organized tech deal, I agree with the reimbursement....but if it was a tech deal set up between the OP and the individual in question, the nation should be expelled from DT so the OP can arrange retribution. I do agree with your 'private chans ftw' sentiment, of course. DT doesn't deserve bad press over this, especially when we can't judge all of the OP's and DT's interactions based solely on a single quoted post.
[/quote]

I agree with your first assessment but partly disagree with your second. If this was a quote of one of DT's gov's I'd call it highly professional and thus warrants this public outcry. However, I don't think I would have ran to the OWF with this, I would've contacted DT to expell the scammer (and wrecked his nation) or pay the tech instead.

[nippy]

[quote name='kriekfreak' date='12 May 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1273660056' post='2295927']
I agree with your first assessment but partly disagree with your second. If this was a quote of one of DT's gov's I'd call it highly professional and thus warrants this public outcry. However, I don't think I would have ran to the OWF with this, I would've contacted DT to expell the scammer (and wrecked his nation) or pay the tech instead.
[/quote]

Well, like I said, we can't exactly put the quote into context. He claims it was from a DT govt. member, but neglected to provide a name. I can see such a quote becoming warranted, however, depending on the way he went about his query. If someone comes into our IRC and starts demanding stuff from us without attempting to remain diplomatic, then we'd be apt to tell them to 'shut the $%&@ up', as well. I'm not in any way blaming the OP for the reaction, but just further pointing out that we, the peanut gallery, cannot fully grasp the entirety of the situation without having all the information at our disposal.

[Archanis]

[quote name='nippy' date='12 May 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1273662034' post='2295938']
Well, like I said, we can't exactly put the quote into context. He claims it was from a DT govt. member, but neglected to provide a name. I can see such a quote becoming warranted, however, depending on the way he went about his query. If someone comes into our IRC and starts demanding stuff from us without attempting to remain diplomatic, then we'd be apt to tell them to 'shut the $%&@ up', as well. I'm not in any way blaming the OP for the reaction, but just further pointing out that we, the peanut gallery, cannot fully grasp the entirety of the situation without having all the information at our disposal.
[/quote]Oh I know that much. I even said earlier we can't really grasp it straight up without knowing wtf is going on. But I mean, I know for a fact GOONS tends to close tech deals left behind by idiots who bail. Or do we only do this for alliance deals as well, rather than individual ones? You'd have a better grasp on that than me, obviously.