My view on the Tilton Situation

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='bros2' date='29 April 2010 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1272574691' post='2280269']
From what I gleaned from it last night at 11 PM, tilton never really ADMITTED to doing it, he just danced around whenever lanna would say that he hacked them.

Hell, I was thinking about white-hatting TOP just to show them how easy it was. But I decided not to. Despite the fact of how much fun it would've been
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Let me get this right, are you saying that Lanna was trying to coax a guilty response out of Tilton?[/color]

[Blue Lightning]

Those lambasting bros for defending him are way out of line. He was acting in good faith and, from what I can see at least, has been one of the most level headed and helpful of those involved. Even if we assume Tilton is guilty as charged, those who believed and defended him did so either because they trusted Tilton (who betrayed that trust completely), or because the evidence provided didn't stack up in their opinion. Neither of these deserves criticism, let alone a tirade of abuse and borderline harassment.

Given that until the Lanna logs, pretty much everyone with any technical knowledge that'd seen the evidence felt it was far from bulletproof, going back screaming "I TOLD YOU SO" and making OOC attacks because they drew different conclusions to you is absurd and making this mess even worse.

Regardless, I hope we can move on from this now and get back to making drama about something more appropriate to a [b][u]game[/u][/b]...


































like how much M'Kay sucks.

[Thunder Strike]

[quote name='bros2' date='30 April 2010 - 04:14 AM' timestamp='1272554026' post='2279887']
The RIA refused to even listen to my point of view, they would mock me incessantly whenever they could, and try to tell me who I was wrong. During this period, the RIA acted childish and incredibly vindictive. As you can see from my chat with Hyperonic last night in the joint announcement from RIA and PC on this issue, Hyperonic is not the nicest of people. But one of the oddest things about this was how odd hyperonic acted. For someone who claims to be so mature, look at how he acts last night. How he acted has permanently lowered my respect, and that of quite a few people I have talked to, of the Random Insanity Alliance.
[/quote]

We listened to your view point every time and when we disagree we countered with an argument questioning your theories.
Our problem with you is that went we made these counter arguments you would ignore them and continue with your theories without addressing our issues with them.

And personally that is where my frustrating with you stems from. It was incredibly difficult to get you to talk about a point we made, and quite frankly Hyperonics 'yelling' at you was the best way to get you to address an issue.

[Thunder Strike]

[quote name='Blue Lightning' date='30 April 2010 - 12:26 PM' timestamp='1272583569' post='2280474']
Those lambasting bros for defending him are way out of line. He was acting in good faith and, from what I can see at least, has been one of the most level headed and helpful of those involved. Even if we assume Tilton is guilty as charged, those who believed and defended him did so either because they trusted Tilton (who betrayed that trust completely), or because the evidence provided didn't stack up in their opinion. Neither of these deserves criticism, let alone a tirade of abuse and borderline harassment.

Given that until the Lanna logs, pretty much everyone with any technical knowledge that'd seen the evidence felt it was far from bulletproof, going back screaming "I TOLD YOU SO" and making OOC attacks because they drew different conclusions to you is absurd and making this mess even worse.

Regardless, I hope we can move on from this now and get back to making drama about something more appropriate to a [b][u]game[/u][/b]...
[/quote]

I would direct you to quote from the CN mods about how difficult bros is to deal with during investigations but it would probably just result in my Warn Level going up

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='29 April 2010 - 07:01 PM' timestamp='1272582045' post='2280429']
Are we really going to start analyzing this based on arguments about Tilt's sense of humour?
[/quote]

Bros has validity in his claims that anyone could've done it, that I acknowledge, I also acknowledge the fact he admitted doing it several times even when Lanna told him his actions were unnecessary. Really, how people can actually believe he was "joking" leaves me bewildered. I [b]like[/b] Tilton and I am sad to see these events unfold, but I'm also not biased too the point where I actually believe these logs are him "joking." Here comes the "His humor isn't your humor" argument, lets cancel the moot point now before its even drawn up, but those logs are in no shape or form anything but a personal discussion between him and friend which clearly labels his actions which he never fathomed they'd be attainable to the public eye.

Tech stuff is for the techies, but the conversation is blatantly clear man.

[Mushroom Man]

[quote name='Thunder Strike' date='30 April 2010 - 09:27 AM' timestamp='1272583616' post='2280476']
quite frankly Hyperonics 'yelling' at you was the best way to get you to address an issue.
[/quote]


You're RIA government?

[Haflinger]

Look, it doesn't matter whether Tilt was joking, or whether he was bragging (my first impression actually), or what have you. One of the things you learn in network security is that chatlogs are useless evidence. People say all kinds of dumb things for all kinds of dumb reasons in them, and it doesn't really go to show anything useful about what they've really done.

Yes, CN pretty much runs on chatlogs. That's the game, and it's not a bad thing because chatting is fun, and fun and games go along well together. But we're not talking about the game here, we're talking about real-world OOC stuff, and for that you actually need to go look at the evidence and see what it says. The evidence suggests extremely strongly to me that Tilt didn't do it, because he's not the kind of guy who does this kind of stuff planning to get caught. He's smart enough to have avoided leaving the traces that convinced RIA's technical advisor that he had done it (assuming that this is in fact the case and we don't have a case of a rogue admin with a grudge). The guy runs a server network, ffs.

I'd say exactly the same thing if someone had this kind of evidence against bros or Moo or any of the other technically-skilled CN players, of whom there are quite a few. (Gee this game attracts computer geeks? No really.)

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='29 April 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1272583483' post='2280471']
[color="#0000FF"]Let me get this right, are you saying that Lanna was trying to coax a guilty response out of Tilton?[/color]
[/quote]
That's pretty much standard procedure for any CN 'investigation'. Assume you know everything, get a few juicy quotes from the target and you're done. I've never engaged in that kind of thing, but I've been on the receiving end of it. Good times.

I don't know who did what. I don't really care, either. I just wish people would be a bit more cautious about tossing around RL criminal allegations.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='30 April 2010 - 07:52 AM' timestamp='1272567110' post='2280106']
TiltShellz is the Coldfront Bouncer Server that Tilton runs (along with Jason8, Yetanothername and someone else). Like / (IRCop) said in the other thread, if Tilton really was after information there are numerous other ways he could have gotten information since he has access to every person who uses his bouncer's password to IRC, their rooms they go in, etc. The spread of people using Tiltshellz is quite a bit of people from TOP government to NPO governmment and low level membership and other alliances in this game.


[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=85110&view=findpost&p=2279613]Link to comment from / (IRCop)[/url]
[/quote]
If the server was hacked- is it possible that boy/whoever got all of the passwords/channel info/query logs from these people who use Tiltshellz?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Banksy' date='29 April 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1272585412' post='2280518']
If the server was hacked- is it possible that boy/whoever got all of the passwords/channel info/query logs from these people who use Tiltshellz?
[/quote]
Yes.

[bros]

[quote name='Banksy' date='29 April 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1272585412' post='2280518']
If the server was hacked- is it possible that boy/whoever got all of the passwords/channel info/query logs from these people who use Tiltshellz?
[/quote]

Possibly, but they would've had to have been highly compressed.

[bros]

[quote name='Thunder Strike' date='29 April 2010 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1272583795' post='2280480']
I would direct you to quote from the CN mods about how difficult bros is to deal with during investigations but it would probably just result in my Warn Level going up
[/quote]

I'd [i]love[/i] to see those logs

[Heft]

It is silly to get upset with Bros when the [i]only[/i] possibly condemning evidence are logs that came out last night (or whenever). Up to that point, the whole circus was nothing more than a bunch of people jumping to conclusions, harassing someone (multiple someones?), and generally acting poorly all around. Behavior which seems to be continuing even now.

[bros]

[quote name='Heft' date='29 April 2010 - 08:32 PM' timestamp='1272587523' post='2280566']
It is silly to get upset with Bros when the [i]only[/i] possibly condemning evidence are logs that came out last night (or whenever). Up to that point, the whole circus was nothing more than a bunch of people jumping to conclusions, harassing someone (multiple someones?), and generally acting poorly all around. Behavior which seems to be continuing even now.
[/quote]

It was tilton being harassed by RIA.

Apparently the RIA method of investigation is walking loudly and carrying a small stick.

I acted civil for the majority of the time.

[My Name Is Romance]

This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous now. The player in question from RIA and the person who this whole investigation has been banned for what ever reason. It was justified for bros to make this thread for everyone to see the other evidence not just RIAs. Now it's just a pissing match between the investigators, and i use that term loosely for everyone involved.

[admin]

[quote name='My Name Is Romance' date='29 April 2010 - 07:49 PM' timestamp='1272588574' post='2280589']
This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous now. The player in question from RIA and the person who this whole investigation has been banned for what ever reason. It was justified for bros to make this thread for everyone to see the other evidence not just RIAs. Now it's just a pissing match between the investigators, and i use that term loosely for everyone involved.
[/quote]
My sentiments as well. Wrapping this thread up.