My view on the Tilton Situation

[bros]

Warning, this may be long, I have no idea, this will mostly be stream of consciousness writing. If you need clarification, feel free to ask. I cannot provide IP addresses here on the boards, so if I refer to them, I will refer to them by either something like Tilton's IP, Thunderstrike's IP, or the 96 ip (tiltons IP).

Basically, this incredibly long and stressful ordeal began February 25th, the day of the RoK hacking, Numerous notices were put out on the CN forums regarind what to do in regards to keeping alliance forums secure. Most alliances complied after the original hacking of GATO and subsequent illegal access of Koona's NPO forum account. They have more secure passwords now, although started by the least liked and most harmful of circumstances.

The culprit of the other hackers was boy, aka league of auto boy of UME, or the originator of "not accept" from what i have heard, but I do not pay much attention to CN except when... interesting things happen.

On March 1st, I believe I heard that RIA was hacked, so I was like "oh crap" and then I went to #ria and asked for their forum admin. I was directed to a person who was cordial at first, but was reasonably shaken by the hacking of the forums he administrated. I talked to him about the hacking, he told me a totally different narrative as to what was told to me in future conversations. He told me that "muslims" hacked his forums, so I assumed that was that. Then I was contacted a few days later that RIAs forums were infiltrated yet again, but this time on SMF.

That occurred on March 3rd. The night of it, TOP was investigating. Not exactly the best of investigators to deal with, especially when the person who I was forced to talk to was Saber from TOP, [b]who accused me of the hacking[/b].

He presented me with one piece of evidence. A useragent.

For those who do not know, a Useragent is akin to a web fingerprint, whenever you visit a site, it logs many things, such as your browser, its version, your country, everywhere you go on the site (Like the CN site logged when I went from Open World RP to the posting a new topic page and it will log when I click to post this topic)

For an explanation on useragents, go to: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537503(VS.85).aspx

To see what I suspected was done, go to: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/59

Now back to the topic, the hacking of RIA.

As everyone knows, Shyox, an administrator on the RIA forums, used the password of aaaaaa, which even the most basic of computer users can tell is a bad password.

After they were hacked, RIA told their members to change their passwords, because the hacker could've dumped their passwords. However, the admins did not practice was they preached and were breached yet again.

After that, Thunderstrike, Hyperonic, and I (along with an occasional appearance from Tilton and Shadowslayer) argued for about a month on who was more right. Then we realized "Hey, we can't convince each other because we are both fervently defending our points of view without giving up any ground"

The RIA refused to even listen to my point of view, they would mock me incessantly whenever they could, and try to tell me who I was wrong. During this period, the RIA acted childish and incredibly vindictive. As you can see from my chat with Hyperonic last night in the joint announcement from RIA and PC on this issue, Hyperonic is not the nicest of people. But one of the oddest things about this was how odd hyperonic acted. For someone who claims to be so mature, look at how he acts last night. How he acted has permanently lowered my respect, and that of quite a few people I have talked to, of the Random Insanity Alliance.

What does RIA have to say about it? They state that he is not government, so he does not represent them. I beg to differ. He is in negotiations regarding this issue, then he should be considered an official of the RIA for the purpose of this issue, as he is their technical advisor.

Here is a basic summary of my version of what could've happened in regards to the RIA hacking, before the events of last night unfolded (And Thunderstrike + Hyperonic bombarded me with queries in an attempt to shove it in my face):
I tihnk a timeline will be easier to present
February 23rd: Tiltshellz has normal activity levels

February 24th: Tiltshellz has increased activity on the front of attempted access into accounts, the majority coming from IPs used in the RoK hackings

February 25th: Ragnarok is hacked by boy, Tiltshellz activity on the CPU and network increases

February 28th: IPs seen attacking tiltshellz + RoK perform something that looks like a DDoS (But I later believe to be a rather old IPB exploit in which the user gathers the encrypted passwords letter by letter) but it isn't

March 1st: RIA is hacked by boy. Message is placed up stating that they should upgrade to a more secure version of their forum software. Accounts are logged into from IPs associated with boy.

March 4th: RIA accounts are illegally accessed from tilton's IP at 8:27 PM. Thunderstrike changes his password at 8:32. Screenshots posted at 8:40-8:45; Tilton logs on and requests a mask at 10:30 PM or so.

Okay. that is enough for now.

I think I talked in circles.

>_>

I think I will post another large post later, hopefully it will make more sense.

[Chief Savage Man]

You're a saint bros.

[bros]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='29 April 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1272554346' post='2279894']
You're a saint bros.
[/quote]

No, I just possess the patience of one to be able to deal with Hyperonic [b]and[/b] Thunderstrike for as long as I did

[crazyisraelie]

Hyperonic was used as technical representative. He is the host of our boards and doesn't usually follow CN politics.

He does not give the official view of the Random Insanity Government nor does he hold any official power.

[Heft]

Well, I do trust bros, and as I recall the behavior of RIA/TOP when this first broke was pretty much terrible and not exactly confidence-inspiring.

So, well, yea. Still doesn't need to be on this forum, though. This sort of discussion is practically designed to lead people into violating posting rules.

[ChairmanHal]

I like to think that a certain level of decorum and discretion would prevail in dealing with security issues. However, as we have seen in the past, people tend to mix a lot of IC and OOC stuff when it comes to this game.

bros, your motivations were probably pure and centered on eliminating security breeches being performed by a hacker on various forums, but if people were being unnecessarily difficult, it probably comes more from not being able to find the IC/OOC switch more so than anything else and I wouldn't take it personally.

[LOLtex]

Never heard about Saber directly (or indirectly) accusing you of anything, but that point is moot (offtopic). I'm not sure what RIA expected from TOP when their first thread in our embassy about this directly accused us of being an alliance of hackers in the title and OP, when not one of us had any idea what was going on (except, if we assume Tilton is guilty, Tilton). I don't know much about the magic and hoo-hahs behind the internet, so I don't have a clue if he's guilty or not. I think that if RIA thinks they have enough evidence to bring forth charges IRL, they should do so and allow the law to figure things out, like what typically happens when people do bad stuff IRL.

[bros]

[quote name='LOLtex' date='29 April 2010 - 12:38 PM' timestamp='1272559095' post='2279938']
Never heard about Saber directly (or indirectly) accusing you of anything, but that point is moot (offtopic). I'm not sure what RIA expected from TOP when their first thread in our embassy about this directly accused us of being an alliance of hackers in the title and OP, when not one of us had any idea what was going on (except, if we assume Tilton is guilty, Tilton). I don't know much about the magic and hoo-hahs behind the internet, so I don't have a clue if he's guilty or not. I think that if RIA thinks they have enough evidence to bring forth charges IRL, they should do so and allow the law to figure things out, like what typically happens when people do bad stuff IRL.
[/quote]

That sounds like a barrel of laughs, that embassy topic.

also, RIA would have to prove that they lost money by having their forums be hacked. Otherwise they get nothing. The most they can do is file a complaint with his local police department and the FBI

Edited April 29, 2010 by bros2

[LOLtex]

[quote name='bros2' date='29 April 2010 - 11:45 AM' timestamp='1272559541' post='2279950']
That sounds like a barrel of laughs, that embassy topic.

also, RIA would have to prove that they lost money by having their forums be hacked. Otherwise they get nothing. The most they can do is file a complaint with his local police department and the FBI
[/quote]

It was a pretty ridiculous topic. If RIA files a civil suit (the costs of filing it would outweigh anything they'd get from Tilton even if found guilty), they'd have to prove a loss (monetary or something comparable), but I'm pretty sure hacking violates some kind of federal law, so they'd have to file criminal charges, which requires no proof of loss... but good luck getting the FBI to investigate it.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote]As everyone knows, Shyox, an administrator on the RIA forums, used the password of aaaaaa, which even the most basic of computer users can tell is a bad password.[/quote]

I think I'll sig this in MCXA forums.

Also, thx for the knowledge Bros.

[bros]

[quote name='LOLtex' date='29 April 2010 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1272560013' post='2279957']
It was a pretty ridiculous topic. If RIA files a civil suit (the costs of filing it would outweigh anything they'd get from Tilton even if found guilty), they'd have to prove a loss (monetary or something comparable), but I'm pretty sure hacking violates some kind of federal law, so they'd have to file criminal charges, which requires no proof of loss... but good luck getting the FBI to investigate it.
[/quote]

Criminal charges require quite a bit more proof that "hey look same ip and useragent lol"

[Chief Savage Man]

Maybe Judge Judy would take the case. I would pay so much money to see RIA v Tilton on Judge Judy. Literally hundreds of dollars.

[LOLtex]

[quote name='bros2' date='29 April 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1272560366' post='2279963']
Criminal charges require quite a bit more proof that "hey look same ip and useragent lol"
[/quote]

Like I said... good luck getting the FBI to investigate it.

[Bilrow]

In non-computer gibberish, this would be like Tilton's house being broken into, the keys of his Ford Mustang being stolen and then that Ford Mustang being used to break the law, assist in a crime, etc (RoK and RIA hacked into). Tilton reports the fact that his house was broken into and Ford Mustang stolen (Tiltzshellz being hacked by boy) and the officials still try to place the blame on the crime spree on Tilton rather than the perpetrator (boy who used Tiltshellz to do his hacking through). Silliness all around.

And yes Judge Judy would be awesome seeing RIA get smacked around.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Bilrow

[Haflinger]

The FBI would probably investigate this if it was a multi-billion-dollar company getting broken into. We all know that RIA isn't, and they won't. Same IP and useragent would be enough for a search warrant in a serious case, which this isn't.

I'm pretty much with bros on this one.

[ktarthan]

bros, I'm glad you're standing up for what you believe to be right in this situation, regardless of the harassment. Convicting someone for a matching useragent and IP would be along the lines of convicting someone because of the return address on an envelope of anthrax.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='29 April 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1272560703' post='2279971']
Maybe Judge Judy would take the case. I would pay so much money to see RIA v Tilton on Judge Judy. Literally hundreds of dollars.
[/quote]

It would be great for CN as well!

[Hyperonic]

bros believes or believed in an interalliance conspiracy to accuse Tilton of hacking the RIA forums.

Seriously.

[bros]

[quote name='Bilrow' date='29 April 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1272561229' post='2279983']
In non-computer gibberish, this would be like Tilton's house being broken into, the keys of his Ford Mustang being stolen and then that Ford Mustang being used to break the law, assist in a crime, etc (RoK and RIA hacked into). Tilton reports the fact that his house was broken into and Ford Mustang stolen (Tiltzshellz being hacked by boy) and the officials still try to place the blame on the crime spree on Tilton rather than the perpetrator (boy who used Tiltshellz to do his hacking through). Silliness all around.

And yes Judge Judy would be awesome seeing RIA get smacked around.
[/quote]

Judge Judy would be amazing.

"WHAT THE HELL IS A CYBERNATIONS"

[D34th]

[quote name='bros2' date='29 April 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1272554026' post='2279887']
February 23rd: Tiltshellz has normal activity levels

February 24th: Tiltshellz has increased activity on the front of attempted access into accounts, the majority coming from IPs used in the RoK hackings

February 28th: IPs seen attacking tiltshellz + RoK perform something that looks like a DDoS (But I later believe to be a rather old IPB exploit in which the user gathers the encrypted passwords letter by letter) but it isn't

March 4th: RIA accounts are illegally accessed from tilton's IP at 8:27 PM. Thunderstrike changes his password at 8:32. Screenshots posted at 8:40-8:45; Tilton logs on and requests a mask at 10:30 PM or so.

[/quote]

I'm a bit lame regarding this kind of things so let me ask some things:

Is this Tiltshellzthe and Tilton the same person?

If yes then you are saying that Tilton account was hacked and then his account was used to hack RIA forums?

If RIA accounts was illegally accessed from tilton's IP doesn't that prove that Tilton is guilty? Or there is a way to clone someone IP?

[JackSkellington]

[quote name='Hyperonic' date='29 April 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1272564420' post='2280046']
bros believes or believed in an interalliance conspiracy to accuse Tilton of hacking the RIA forums.

Seriously.
[/quote]

Couldn't it simply be a case of trying to pin the hackings on someone else so it doesn't lead to the actual hacker? I mean, I'm no tech expert at all, but it seems like it's possible that someone who is hacking would prefer to lead the people hacked in a different direction.

Edit: And yes, I was quote literally asking you a question.

Edited April 29, 2010 by JackSkellington

[Bilrow]

[quote name='D34th' date='29 April 2010 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1272566207' post='2280085']
I'm a bit lame regarding this kind of things so let me ask some things:

Is this Tiltshellzthe and Tilton the same person?

If yes then you are saying that Tilton account was hacked and then his account was used to hack RIA forums?

If RIA accounts was illegally accessed from tilton's IP doesn't that prove that Tilton is guilty? Or there is a way to clone someone IP?
[/quote]


TiltShellz is the Coldfront Bouncer Server that Tilton runs (along with Jason8, Yetanothername and someone else). Like / (IRCop) said in the other thread, if Tilton really was after information there are numerous other ways he could have gotten information since he has access to every person who uses his bouncer's password to IRC, their rooms they go in, etc. The spread of people using Tiltshellz is quite a bit of people from TOP government to NPO governmment and low level membership and other alliances in this game.


[url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=85110&view=findpost&p=2279613]Link to comment from / (IRCop)[/url]

Edited April 29, 2010 by Bilrow

[bros]

[quote name='D34th' date='29 April 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1272566207' post='2280085']
I'm a bit lame regarding this kind of things so let me ask some things:

Is this Tiltshellzthe and Tilton the same person?

If yes then you are saying that Tilton account was hacked and then his account was used to hack RIA forums?

If RIA accounts was illegally accessed from tilton's IP doesn't that prove that Tilton is guilty? Or there is a way to clone someone IP?
[/quote]

Tiltshellz is Tilton's legal IRC proxy service.

If the service was hacked into, they would have access to Tilton's information, including his IP, his user agent, and his coldfront nickserv information

Tilton's IP that is used all of the time is a proxy, it is an IP address that anyone can use and many people can use it at the same time

[cookavich]

Interesting, I was under the impression that this was a closed case.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='bros2' date='29 April 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1272564473' post='2280048']
Judge Judy would be amazing.

"WHAT THE HELL IS A CYBERNATIONS"
[/quote]

"Case dismissed. Both a' you go outside and play with a football some."