Joint Statement from RIA and PC

[Tilton53]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='29 April 2010 - 02:50 AM' timestamp='1272523802' post='2279625']
Tilton, your posts in this thread have leaned rather heavily on the usage of "RIA is full of jerks and idiots" as your defense. Now, while this can potentially be an effective strategy as no one likes helping, or agreeing, with people that have successfully been presented as unlikeable, it doesn't actually have any impact on or relevance to your level of guilt. The fact that you have been pushing that line of attack rather than a coherent defense of yourself from the very beginning, and that almost every non-aggressive argument I've seen as originated with someone else, does not help your case. It's a fairly basic tactic when you do not wish to admit to something to flip it around and go on the attack in an attempt to distract from the actual issue. It's common, and as I said, generally fairly effective.

Unfortunately, when you are watching for it, it does more to undermine your case than help it because it is a tactic much more commonly used by people who are actually guilty than those who are confident in their innocence.
[/quote]

Delta1212 if RIA wants to actually bring hard evidence that can't be faked or flawed, I would be glad to argue against it. Maybe Hyper can get his host to actually print out those logs like he said he would.

PS: Delta I am surprised to see you posting here, as you yourself had stated that in your absence TS and Hyper had blown this so far to hell and back that it was creating a PR nightmare. Sad to say but you were the only halfway sensible RIA gov or ex-gov member I dealt with in the past 3 months.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Tilton53

[Xiphosis]

Hey genius. You'd need root access to edit server access logs on an Apache server. Apache runs as Apache User specifically so it doesn't have root access and therefore can minimize damage if a scriptkiddy got in.

[b]Try. Again.[/b]

[Chief Savage Man]

I have absolutely no idea what you people are talking about. I'm just glad it was ended peacefully (well except for you, tilton).

[Tilton53]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='29 April 2010 - 02:56 AM' timestamp='1272524143' post='2279630']
Hey genius. You'd need root access to edit server access logs on an Apache server. Apache runs as Apache User specifically so it doesn't have root access and therefore can minimize damage if a scriptkiddy got in.

[b]Try. Again.[/b]
[/quote]

Genius apache has write access to the logs, or else it would never be able to log anything. You can't go "Stick items in this locked box without the key too it." Just doesn't work.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Tilton53

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='28 April 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1272524219' post='2279631']
I have absolutely no idea what you people are talking about. I'm just glad it was ended peacefully (well except for you, tilton).
[/quote]

The server software being run by Hyperonic is called Apache. Apache is designed to run as a step-down from Root access so that if it is compromised, damage is limited. One of the things you can't do as Apache User [the step down] is edit access logs.

Therein Tilton's whole argument is a bowl of !@#$.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='29 April 2010 - 02:58 AM' timestamp='1272524318' post='2279634']
The server software being run by Hyperonic is called Apache. Apache is designed to run as a step-down from Root access so that if it is compromised, damage is limited. One of the things you can't do as Apache User [the step down] is edit access logs.

Therein Tilton's whole argument is a bowl of !@#$.
[/quote]

Alright, that makes sense.

[Yuletide]

Let me rephrase what's going on here.


[b]Conclusion with enough proof to make Nixon cringe[/b]: Same IP, same useragent, same times, [i]bragging about it, logs condemning him from a friend.[/i] That's the tip of the ice berg.

[b]Defense[/b]: RIA is full of losers.

[Tilton53]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='29 April 2010 - 02:58 AM' timestamp='1272524318' post='2279634']
The server software being run by Hyperonic is called Apache. Apache is designed to run as a step-down from Root access so that if it is compromised, damage is limited. One of the things you can't do as Apache User [the step down] is edit access logs.

Therein Tilton's whole argument is a bowl of !@#$.
[/quote]

Xiphosis did Hyper ever give you BEFORE now an 'ls -l' of his log folder showing the permissions? If not what makes you think that someone who doesn't even reset passwords after being broken into, actually set the permissions right?

Also that is just one person's argument, it's already been posted in this thread but there is 2 or 3 different ways for IPs to have shown up in these logs now.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Tilton53

[Hyperonic]

He's trying to really confuse things right now.

The message board and database was the only thing that was broken into. Period.

No one got into any shell accounts or the like. Not once.

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Tilton53' date='28 April 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1272524275' post='2279633']
Genius apache has write access to the logs, or else it would never be able to log anything. You can't go "Stick items in this locked box without the key too it." Just doesn't work.
[/quote]

Apache's parent process runs as root, it automatically forks the children under Apache User/group defined in httpd.conf

Then again I don't really expect a scriptkiddy to have a clue.

[quote]Xiphosis did Hyper ever give you BEFORE now an 'ls -l' of his log folder showing the permissions?[/quote]

1) His credibility isn't in question.

2) What I'm listing are the default permissions for all Apache servers, which he has no cause or reason to tamper with.

Good day sir.

[Smacky]

You're not doing yourself any favors Tilton. If you really are innocent just shut up and try to put some actual coherent argument together.

[Tilton53]

[b]*remove and banned*[/b]

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Tilton53' date='29 April 2010 - 02:52 AM' timestamp='1272523957' post='2279627']
Delta1212 if RIA wants to actually bring hard evidence that can't be faked or flawed, I would be glad to argue against it. Maybe Hyper can get his host to actually print out those logs like he said he would.

PS: Delta I am surprised to see you posting here, as you yourself had stated that in your absence TS and Hyper had blown this so far to hell and back that it was creating a PR nightmare. Sad to say but you were the only halfway sensible RIA gov or ex-gov member I dealt with in the past 3 months.
[/quote]
The situation not initially being handled as well as it could have has absolutely no bearing on whether you did anything or not. I came into this situatin absolutely terrified that somebody had screwed up and overshot their bounds. Between having the evidence presented to me, observing how you've conducted yourself especially in this thread, and everything Lanna has given me, I now have zero doubt about your guilt. I don't appreciate it when people in my government are overly disrespectful, even in extraordinary circumstances, but I like people who hack my boards, taunt me and then try to trash my alliance's reputation significantly less.

I may not insult you because that is simply common courtesy and I am always going to be open to being reasoned with because I realize I am not always right, but that does not mean that I'm going to let you walk all over an institution that I helped build and have a charge to protect just so you can laugh about how much you've screwed with us. I'm not sure what you expected me to do, but there is absolutely nothing you have done to engender any good will from me.

I've said pretty much all I have to say to you. Goodbye.

[Hyperonic]

Does anyone remember OJ Simpsons "If I Did It..." ?

[Great Lord Moth]

Wait a second...

Lanna? THAT Lanna? @_o She's involved in all this? I haven't even heard that name in, like, years.

[Il Impero Romano]

Glad to see this resolved.

[Vivi]

Any other posting of IP addresses or ways to break into forum software will result in the thread closing and a double warning+suspension to whoever decides to try my patience.

[ss2342]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='29 April 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1272524318' post='2279634']
The server software being run by Hyperonic is called Apache. Apache is designed to run as a step-down from Root access so that if it is compromised, damage is limited. One of the things you can't do as Apache User [the step down] is edit access logs.

Therein Tilton's whole argument is a bowl of !@#$.
[/quote]

Yes, this skilled person you see here is 100% right. The user apache runs as does NOT have access to write server logs, nor edit them, as that would be a security risk. Instead, Apache uses magical powers to get them written, and no one knows how they've done it yet, but suffice to say, it's not in any way to do with the process having the correct read/write permissions. Only a fool would believe that Apache would have permission to write it's own logs, a FOOL I TELL YOU

It was 127.0.0.1 I tell you, no lies.

[Xiphosis]

Would it pain you to keep up with the thread, random person I've never heard of?

[quote]Apache's parent process runs as root, it automatically forks the children under Apache User/group defined in httpd.conf[/quote]

The parent process is the only one capable of writing the logs. There's ways of getting into it, but none that could go unnoticed. It's absolutely inconceivable that someone edited the logs, or ever got a level of access where they were capable of running a script to do so. The IP is legit, the idea of someone [I'm assuming boy since everything is boy's fault] got in, ran his little script, framed Tilton and then got locked out by TS changing his password is completely [b]absurd[/b].

What a charade this line of defense is. Sucks for you someone besides you here knows Apache and actually, knows it better.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Xiphosis

[chefjoe]

Well Tilton, whom would have thought you would be getting smashed outta CN before I?

World is full of irony I guess.

Goodluck with all this crap, it looks like it might be needed.

[Thunder Strike]

[quote name='Tilton53' date='29 April 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1272523957' post='2279627']
PS: Delta I am surprised to see you posting here, as you yourself had stated that in your absence TS and Hyper had blown this so far to hell and back that it was creating a PR nightmare. Sad to say but you were the only halfway sensible RIA gov or ex-gov member I dealt with in the past 3 months.
[/quote]

I think PR wise it turned out pretty well for us, but I guess I should give you a lot of credit for that since your admission is the icing on the cake that convinced a lot of doubters that me, Hyper, and others were right.

[kriekfreak]

I don't know what was more mind-dwelling, the share of idiocy displayed by a lot of people from both sides during this whole incident or Tilton's bragging about his 'hack'.

Let's say I'm happy this was all handled without the use of military force.

[Cyphon88]

/me facepaws at this thread

I'm not that tech savvy. But even from my base level the evidence looks pretty damning just from the tech. Let alone the logs...

[bros]

[quote name='USMC123' date='29 April 2010 - 12:56 AM' timestamp='1272516946' post='2279435']
3 months of joking. If memory serves, it seems that's about the time all these hackings started taking place.

Disclaimer: I could be totally wrong on this one.
[/quote]

I'll type up some bigass thing later, since I do not want to right now.

Tilton did not hack GATO. He did not hack NPO. He may have hacked RoK, but I think at the most, if he is guilty, he assisted in the hacking of their forums with his tiltshellz server.

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='29 April 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1272517787' post='2279467']
Do you share the same IP?
[/quote]

They could, rather easily. But this would be something to discuss on IRC, not in this topic.

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='29 April 2010 - 02:13 AM' timestamp='1272521611' post='2279577']
The odds of a tor node resolving to the hometown of the accused, who also was bragging about doing it, and that it even would be a tor node without it showing up in the hostmask are all next to nothing.

[b]Furthermore[/b] if he was using TOR it'd generate a different IP every time he logged into it. This is how Tor functions. It wouldn't have matched his IP on TOP if that was the case. I'm still failing to see a technical reason for you to deny his guilt, simply misguided and blind loyalty.



The irony crushes me.
[/quote]

Deep breath.

Before you spout bs like that, please contact me on IRC. I will show you that it is a TOR proxy. That was the easiest thing to prove this entire damn investigation.

[quote name='Hyperonic' date='29 April 2010 - 02:14 AM' timestamp='1272521657' post='2279578']
Do you really believe someone hacked his server full of lots of other potentially awesome information just to go through with a really stupid conspiracy?

Because that is part of the story.
[/quote]

There were unusual spikes in network activity during the hackings, but that could be explained away as the server visiting RoK and RIA forums

[quote name='Hyperonic' date='29 April 2010 - 02:29 AM' timestamp='1272522571' post='2279602']
Side A:

Tilton did it.

Side B:

Tilton is the victim of an interalliance wide conspiracy to damn him for whatever reason that has yet to be accounted for.
[/quote]

Actually, it is more like:
Side A:
Tilton did it because his useragent and his IP are the same as the person who logged into the accounts. Also, I hate tilton.

Side B:
Tilton didn't do it because a useragent is easily falsifiable, especially when you take into account the [b]theory[/b] that boy hacked into Tilton's server. His IP is also easily spoofed, due to the fact that it is a proxy.

[quote name='Hyperonic' date='29 April 2010 - 02:41 AM' timestamp='1272523244' post='2279615']
No one broke into the apache user on the RIA side, so no, the logs that RIA has are NOT compromised.
[/quote]

You never provided any such proof, nor the output of the last command.

[quote name='Hyperonic' date='29 April 2010 - 03:05 AM' timestamp='1272524689' post='2279640']
He's trying to really confuse things right now.

The message board and database was the only thing that was broken into. Period.

No one got into any shell accounts or the like. Not once.
[/quote]

Step 1: Login to an admin account
Step 2: Look at the information for the database
Step 3: If it is the account account, TIME TO HAVE FUN! (If you are a hacker)

[bros]

Okay, I will type more later, but I feel like getting this out here now. Unlike what RIA is saying, they were not complete angels when they stated they were hacked.

Why?

The first person they pointed their finger at was Tilton, whom hyperonic had been arguing with a few days prior in some channel.

Also, Hyperonic, I appreciate you disrupting my sleep last night along with OOC attacking me.

[23:07] <Hyperonic[RIA]> xfd
[23:07] <Hyperonic[RIA]> So
[23:07] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Way to go.
[23:07] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You did a great job making yourself look like a huge !@#$%^&.
[23:10] <Hyperonic[RIA]> So, thank you for trying to make me look bad.
[23:10] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Thanks for telling people I edited forum logs.
[23:10] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Thanks for telling people all the other !@#$%^&* you came up with about me.
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You !@#$@#$ !@#$%^&.
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> I don't give a !@#$ how good you are with computers.
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> In this case, it was the street smarts that one.
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> won*
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> lol
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> $%&@ you
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> $%&@ you $%&@ you $%&@ you $%&@ you
[23:11] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You !@#$ talking retard
[23:13] <bros> How mature.
[23:13] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You know what bros?
[23:13] <Hyperonic[RIA]> I never went around and told lies about you.
[23:14] <Hyperonic[RIA]> I never put a lot of effort into discrediting you.
[23:14] <Hyperonic[RIA]> My anger is geniune and just. Where is your integrity now?
[23:15] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Go defend some more my idols.
[23:15] <Hyperonic[RIA]> And talk more !@#$.
[23:15] <Hyperonic[RIA]> !@#$%^
[23:16] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Edited forum logs.
[23:16] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You are a joke.
[23:16] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Eat my !@#$.
[23:17] <bros> edit forum logs? wat
[23:17] <bros> All I said was that I suspected the access logs to be edited because of the rather odd bursts of inactivity.
[23:17] <Hyperonic[RIA]> All you said?
[23:17] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You said a lot of !@#$.
[23:17] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You defend Tilton and he bragged that he fooled you, too.
[23:19] <bros> I do not see that in the screenshots, which one is it in?
[23:26] <bros> I am glad I never have to deal with you again. Holy $%&@ are you annoying.
[23:27] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You haven't seen the last of me.
[23:27] <Hyperonic[RIA]> I'll be your ambassador to the RIA
[23:27] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Then you'll always be reminded how you suck !@#$
[23:28] <bros> You'll be MKs ambassador to the RIA....while in RIA?
[23:28] <bros> wat
[23:28] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Yeah, point out grammar mistakes. That'll make your whole defending the hacker while he laughs at your retarded $@! matter feel better to you, right?
[23:30] <bros> I honestly do not give a $%&@. I did what I thought was right at the time. I defended someone who appeared to be most likely innocent at the time. Nothing wrong with that.
[23:31] <Hyperonic[RIA]> So, part of doing what was right is
[23:31] <Hyperonic[RIA]> - Ignoring evidence that doesn't fit into your really stupid concept of what actually happened
[23:32] <Hyperonic[RIA]> - Implying that I edited anything (Yeah, how dare I delete topics on MY forum...duplicate topics might I add)
[23:32] <Hyperonic[RIA]> - Not making up for past mistakes
[23:32] <bros> Archiving them would've been better, especially considering the fact that you were hacked only a few days prior
[23:32] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You don't care what is right. You only care about being right.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Stop suggesting what I should do, $%&@er.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> I was right.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You were the one who was wrong.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Start taking my advice.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> 1) Stop taking !@#$ from my idols.
[23:33] <bros> I would rather not take your advice. That would probably result in MK getting hacked.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Well, having a full time job would do that.
[23:33] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You haven't had anything close to that, so you wouldn't know.
[23:34] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Sorry my personal hobbies weren't up to your standards.
[23:34] <Hyperonic[RIA]> But, you can just suck my !@#$.
[23:34] <bros> I barely spend time admining the MK site, anyone in the alliance will tell you that, but I keep them secure through my paranoia.
[23:35] <Hyperonic[RIA]> !@#$%^&*
[23:35] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Stop damage controlling.
[23:35] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You should be a man about this whole thing.
[23:35] <Hyperonic[RIA]> IF you cared about doing what was right.
[23:35] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You played for the wrong team and anyone with common sense knew that. You took advantage of a lot of !@#$ just to make our point look dumb.
[23:37] <bros> I didn't have to take advantage of much of anything to make RIA look like idiots tbh
[23:38] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Again, you talk !@#$ with pie on your face.
[23:38] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You look like a jack$@!.
[23:38] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You spent weeks defending the wrong guy.
[23:38] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Months
[23:38] <Hyperonic[RIA]> xfd
[23:38] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Good job
[23:39] <bros> gasp. i stood up for what I thought was right
[23:39] <Hyperonic[RIA]> So, did what you thought was right change? Because, I thought what was right was finding the truth?
[23:40] <Hyperonic[RIA]> I guess you abandoned that ship pretty quickly in that case
[23:40] <bros> I stood up for tilton because I believed that he was innocent and that boy did it, a valid hypothesis at the time.
[23:41] <bros> And that was right
[23:41] <Hyperonic[RIA]> It wasn't valid at all.
[23:41] <Hyperonic[RIA]> You ignored facts to make your hypothesis.
[23:41] <Hyperonic[RIA]> That doesn't make it valid.
[23:42] <bros> I am going to bed. Good night. Perhaps we can continue this conversation tomorrow.
[23:42] <Hyperonic[RIA]> xfd
[23:42] <Hyperonic[RIA]> Go to bed
[23:42] <Hyperonic[RIA]> GO TO BED
[23:48] <Hyperonic[RIA]> GO TO BED

Also, RIA, you would never win in any litigation, as RIA lost nothing monetarily in the downtime of their forums. The best you can do is report it to the FBI cybercrimes division.

Also, mods, I [b]hope[/b] I edited all of the curses out of there, but I am unsure due to the large quantity of them