Gramlins Transactions

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Mushroom Man' date='26 April 2010 - 01:02 AM' timestamp='1272258125' post='2275692']
Did you ever think, ChairmanHal, (what, never? har har har)[/quote]

I remember high school too.

[quote]...that maybe this is a far greater C&G plot than you ever imagined?[/quote]

I have avoided conspiracy theories regarding this whole issue because, frankly, until someone shows me some sort of proof of a conspiracy, I'm not buying it.

No, the reparations from IRON are needed sooner rather than later by many nations. That some would rather pretend to be insulted by people bringing up the Gramlins conflict and threaten to aid Gramlins over it tells me they really don't care about reparations from IRON, don't need them, and should be writing them off. Oh but I'm certain when the time comes, they'll be first in line for their tech once the war is over.

This is usually where someone from MK leadership or their former leadership tells me how wrong I am in some sort of 5 paragraph theme. Or someone else throws another high school insult. At least you are predictable.

[Bob Janova]

In this thread: MK actively supports Grämlins and sends direct military aid to support their war. Classy move there, guys. Yes, this thread is unnecessary, but sending tech and donations to an alliance at war is explicit support for their agenda.

[lonewolfe2015]

Why are you guys complaining about a war in which all points of interest show to Gremlins losing? Is there nothing better to do around here than call the other side evil and then proceed to get all your cronies lined up on the opposite sides of a line saying how stupid the other side is? We should all be equally as ashamed at the alliances aiding IRON's war efforts too, right? Because you can't point fingers at one side and not point fingers at the other.

I've seen children with better common sense than to try and argue that anyone beyond the involved parties here are to blame for this war. IRON for not surrendering and Gremlins for giving them terms they wouldn't agree on. This is no different than if an alliance during the war asked for reps someone would not pay (ahem, TOP) and prolonged it on their own accords. The only difference between IRON is not going to let up on Gremlins and Gremlins do not have the numbers to effectively counter the mess they got themselves in.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]We should all be equally as ashamed at the alliances aiding IRON's war efforts too, right? Because you can't point fingers at one side and not point fingers at the other.[/quote]
No, because only one side is being completely ridiculous. Aiding Grämlins is supporting unconditional surrender; aiding IRON/DAWN is supporting resistance to having that imposed upon you. Those two things are not morally equivalent.

[My Name Is Romance]

Yes, this is gonna make me stop sending tech to grämlins... more likely i'll just keep sending tech to grämlins after my current deals are up now.

[Mechanus]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='25 April 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1272252381' post='2275447']
25 dollar donation to Gremlins if ChairmanHal updates this tomorrow.
[/quote]

I hope Hal does update this thread just so you'll spend some money on srs intrnt pixel bsns. The mere fact that people think it's cute and amusing to waste their own money just to spite someone on the internet fills me with a joy not felt in a long time. Please, Hal, for those of use that have no other reason to play along at home than to watch stupidity crawl out their doors for things like this...please, update this thread.

And if you have already, thank you. Your Jam of the Month is in the mail.

[Joe Stupid]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='26 April 2010 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1272287374' post='2275930']
In this thread: MK actively supports Grämlins and sends direct military aid to support their war. Classy move there, guys. Yes, this thread is unnecessary, but sending tech and donations to an alliance at war is explicit support for their agenda.
[/quote]

Perhaps they support their agenda?

[The Corrupt Teacher]

Hey TGH has a guy selling tech to the Gramlins and we got called out. I'm sure the 100 tech flowing into the Gramlins will turn the tide of the war and allow them to defeat IRON once and for all.

[size="1"]and when they do we want a cut of their reps roughly proportional to the amount of tech sent to them[/size]

[Nobody Expects]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='26 April 2010 - 03:50 AM' timestamp='1272250217' post='2275357']
Spanish Inquisition
Ruler: Nobody Expects
Boards Alliance of Protectorate States
[/quote]

One of our nations inadvertently, and in violation of our surrender terms, picked up a 3m/100 Tech from the blackmarket, and sent 3m to an IRON nation. To balance the books I sent 3m to Gramlins. BAPS does not support or condone Gramlin's actions in any way shape or form, but believes it is only right and honourable to follow ones terms to the letter.

[potato]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='26 April 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1272283994' post='2275911']
I remember high school too.



I have avoided conspiracy theories regarding this whole issue because, frankly, until someone shows me some sort of proof of a conspiracy, I'm not buying it.

No, the reparations from IRON are needed sooner rather than later by many nations. That some would rather pretend to be insulted by people bringing up the Gramlins conflict and threaten to aid Gramlins over it tells me they really don't care about reparations from IRON, don't need them, and should be writing them off. Oh but I'm certain when the time comes, they'll be first in line for their tech once the war is over.

This is usually where someone from MK leadership or their former leadership tells me how wrong I am in some sort of 5 paragraph theme. Or someone else throws another high school insult. At least you are predictable.
[/quote]

You're wrong.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='25 April 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1272251710' post='2275417']
edit: I promised myself if another stupid thread was made I'd actually do this.

4/30 I have three open slots, if anyone in Gramlins would like tech for free, PM me. I will continue to send tech to you until threads like this stop. TWO CAN PLAY AT THIS GAME!!

To elaborate, by creating this thread, you will cause more tech to go to Gramlins. Kudos sir.
[/quote]

Indeed. I'll throw 50 tech into the pot as well

Keep it up, Hal!
[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='25 April 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1272254278' post='2275544']You would think that the many hundreds of nations in C&G that stand to benefit from the war ending and IRON reparations aiding their rebuilding would in fact support me.
[/quote]

For admin's sake stop with the broken record. [u]We get it.[/u] MK isn't getting their reps until peace is accomplished. You'd think with the rate your side mentions this that you're hoping a light bulb goes off in Archon's head while reading it and he declares war on Gremlins immediately to get some of that delicious, delicious tech. We get it, Hal, we really do. You're not going to change MK's mind by continually mentioning the reps, so spare us, OK?

[quote]In this thread: MK actively supports Grämlins and sends direct military aid to support their war. Classy move there, guys. Yes, this thread is unnecessary, but sending tech and donations to an alliance at war is explicit support for their agenda.[/quote]

What? No it isn't. It's a shot at these types of threads. Not a support of keeping them in war. Come on, Bob, take off the blinders for a minute...

Edited April 26, 2010 by Penkala

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Penkala' date='26 April 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1272299179' post='2276085']
Indeed. I'll throw 50 tech into the pot as well

Keep it up, Hal!
[/quote]

That doesn't at all surprise me since you left your current AA to fight us for a week and then jumped back, I'm severely disappointed that you were one of very few staggers mess ups this war.

Jack Diorno, you needn't think we have forgot about you either.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='MCRABT' date='26 April 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1272299590' post='2276092']
That doesn't at all surprise me since you left your current AA to fight us for a week and then jumped back, I'm severely disappointed that you were one of very few staggers mess ups this war.
[/quote]

That was actually just an elaborate plan by us to get rid of Penkala. Unfortunately, we forgot to yell "no givebacks!".

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='26 April 2010 - 09:58 AM' timestamp='1272290287' post='2275962']
No, because only one side is being completely ridiculous. Aiding Grämlins is supporting unconditional surrender; aiding IRON/DAWN is supporting resistance to having that imposed upon you. Those two things are not morally equivalent.
[/quote]

It's not about being morally equivalent with the people crying in this thread though. It's about having something to poke a jab into the opponents they lost a war to. Whether you agree with the Gremlins choices or not there is an individual war going on and by everyone's opinions here you cannot aid parties at war, something that has been said to death.

If this was about how unfair it is for the Gremlins to seek their unconditional surrender terms and the former war coalitions supporting it or opposing it don't you think that IRON's allies would not have surrendered and that IRON's enemies would still be fighting because they aren't going to leave someone behind?

No, because very few alliances as a whole would rise up and defend IRON in this situation with military might if they knew the repercussions involved themselves getting attacked or destroyed further. Some may of course, but most wouldn't. Now tell me, what good is complaining about this doing anyone especially when the alliance many of you are so obviously saying has been wronged is winning this war?

[Penkala]

[quote name='MCRABT' date='26 April 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1272299590' post='2276092']
That doesn't at all surprise me since you left your current AA to fight us for a week and then jumped back, I'm severely disappointed that you were one of very few staggers mess ups this war.

Jack Diorno, you needn't think we have forgot about you either.
[/quote]


Facts: You don't have them.

I left the CSN AA and joined the Fark AA for nearly a month. I didn't mess up a single stagger. You may be referring to the time I gave one of your vanquished nations peace to attack someone creating a lot of trouble (which I didn't even get a slot on FARK ). He scurried into peace mode immediately. Not surprising, really. Whenever I attacked any of your nations gave up and took it after only 1 day of counter attacks. Only one of your nations fought past day one.

So please, when you're going to criticize [i]my[/i] war performance, look in the mirror, then look at the facts. Maybe then you'll keep your mouth shut instead of showing, yet again, why Gremlins have little to fear from the mighty IRON War Machine (Flower Brigade would be more fitting, really).

I eagerly await your member 'going rogue' on me, like he said he would. At least then IRON can say they've damaged me.

Also this:

[quote]That was actually just an elaborate plan by us to get rid of Penkala. Unfortunately, we forgot to yell "no givebacks!". [/quote]

Edited April 26, 2010 by Penkala

[Arthur Blair]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='26 April 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1272287374' post='2275930']
In this thread: MK actively supports Grämlins and sends direct military aid to support their war. Classy move there, guys. Yes, this thread is unnecessary, but sending tech and donations to an alliance at war is explicit support for their agenda.
[/quote]

In this thread it is demonstrated that perhaps the most efficient means of protesting the grämlins-IRON war is [b]NOT[/b] to put on a sub-par parade around the OWF in the emperor's new clothes.

Turns out people eventually get pissed at this ridiculous, falsified and loudmouthed parade getting in their way and drowning out all other sound. And since people are smart, they find ways to discourage this parade.


Yes! As long as you will ridiculously go around supporting IRON, our guys will likely keep mocking you and handing out gifts to grämlins to spit in your faces. Let's all recall that [b]IRON was very much a part of the TOP plot to destroy our entire bloc[/b], excuse me if I can not find a shred of sympathy for these monsters. If it was up to me, none of these alliances would have seen peace yet.

If you want it to stop, all you have to do is get smart.

[Bob]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='26 April 2010 - 09:09 AM' timestamp='1272287374' post='2275930']
In this thread: MK actively supports Grämlins and sends direct military aid to support their war. Classy move there, guys. Yes, this thread is unnecessary, but sending tech and donations to an alliance at war is explicit support for their agenda.
[/quote]
I definitely didn't condition it with its fine if its confined to Bilrows thread. I am not going to send a donation unless he chooses to update this thread instead of the one that already exists for this purpose. If he wishes to give himself the attention and Gramlins the donation, then he may. If he wishes to keep Gramlins from receiving the money and hold to his high principles, then he won't update it. I apologize I problem solve in a way that upsets you, but goddamn what doesn't upset you?

[quote name='Mechanus' date='26 April 2010 - 11:32 AM' timestamp='1272295916' post='2276020']
I hope Hal does update this thread just so you'll spend some money on srs intrnt pixel bsns. The mere fact that people think it's cute and amusing to waste their own money just to spite someone on the internet fills me with a joy not felt in a long time. Please, Hal, for those of use that have no other reason to play along at home than to watch stupidity crawl out their doors for things like this...please, update this thread.

And if you have already, thank you. Your Jam of the Month is in the mail.
[/quote]
I hope he does too, for the point of proving this is all about personal attention, and has nothing to do with the conflict. Not updating it will give Gramlins less donations, which is what he wants, right?

Edited April 26, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Alekhine]

[quote name='MCRABT' date='26 April 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1272299590' post='2276092']

Jack Diorno, you needn't think we have forgot about you either.
[/quote]

To be fair, Jack Diorno joined our AA as a legitimate applicant, and during the application process, got involved with combat with IRON. His application was denied, however, and he left the AA and peaced out on his own terms following that.

[Bob]

[quote name='Alekhine' date='26 April 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1272302568' post='2276144']
To be fair, Jack Diorno joined our AA as a legitimate applicant, and during the application process, got involved with combat with IRON. His application was denied, however, and he left the AA and peaced out on his own terms following that.
[/quote]
Such a jerk, why would he do that to poor IRON

[Bob Janova]

[quote]What? No it isn't. It's a shot at these types of threads. Not a support of keeping them in war[/quote]
Aiding someone at war is helping them with that war, and therefore supporting their cause. It's really that simple. Your primary intent maybe to thumb your nose at Hal for making this (pointless) thread, but the effect is to support Grämlins' cause, and their demands for unconditional surrender.

[quote]If it was up to me, none of these alliances would have seen peace yet.[/quote]
Yes, I know ... you probably do just outright support Grämlins' objective, since you have been a pretty rabid TOP/IRON hater from the start of the front. You're a little way behind bringing that point up though, because your alliance has agreed terms with TOP and IRON to compensate for the 'plot to destroy our entire bloc' (also lol at that, but we've been over that nearly three months ago). IRON are [i]no longer fighting for that[/i], even if you believe that they were in the first place (which they weren't), because peace terms have been reached on that front. Your argument applies to aiding IRON – [i]before the peace settlement[/i].

[quote]I am not going to send a donation unless he chooses to update this thread instead of the one that already exists for this purpose[/quote]
Yes, you are blackmailing Hal using the threat of material support to Grämlins, and therefore direct support of their cause, as the threat. I don't consider blackmail within my stable of appropriate diplomatic tools for such a minor issue, personally. I'm not upset, just pointing out that MK (and apparently CSN) are talking out of both sides of their face when they claim in other threads that they're not supporting Grämlins' war, but at the drop of a hat send material aid to help their war effort.

[quote]If this was about how unfair it is for the Gremlins to seek their unconditional surrender terms and the former war coalitions supporting it or opposing it don't you think that IRON's allies would not have surrendered and that IRON's enemies would still be fighting because they aren't going to leave someone behind? [/quote]
What? It wasn't about that until most of IRON's side – the Polar side in case anyone has forgotten where the whole war started – had already surrendered and even IRON was in surrender talks and believed the war was pretty much over. The alliances which are now bound by surrender talks surrendered because they didn't want to fight for a side that basically had no purpose even being at war after Polar bailed out on them, not because they didn't want to be able to defend IRON against demands for unconditional surrender, because such a thing hadn't even been thought of at that point.

The fact that C&G and their hangers-on did agree to a separate peace indicates that it [i]is[/i] about 'how unfair it is for the Gremlins to seek their unconditional surrender terms' and that at least the governments of those alliances do not support it, which is why it seems so hypocritical that they are still protecting Grämlins from anyone helping IRON (at least that seems to be the case from the unclear statements we've had from them on the matter) and providing material support to them on the basis of a minor OWF disagreement over a pointless thread.

[Charles the Great]

would aiding Gramlins be breaking peace terms? would that mean IRON/DAWN owe no reps to whomever aided gramlins? Guess I need to go look over the peace terms.

just looking for a clarification.

Thank you,
CtG

Edited April 26, 2010 by Charles the Great

[HellAngel]

Nice to see you're still keeping up the good fight, Bob. Agreed with everything the man said.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='26 April 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1272306494' post='2276195']
What? It wasn't about that until most of IRON's side – the Polar side in case anyone has forgotten where the whole war started – had already surrendered and even IRON was in surrender talks and believed the war was pretty much over. The alliances which are now bound by surrender talks surrendered because they didn't want to fight for a side that basically had no purpose even being at war after Polar bailed out on them, not because they didn't want to be able to defend IRON against demands for unconditional surrender, because such a thing hadn't even been thought of at that point.

The fact that C&G and their hangers-on did agree to a separate peace indicates that it [i]is[/i] about 'how unfair it is for the Gremlins to seek their unconditional surrender terms' and that at least the governments of those alliances do not support it, which is why it seems so hypocritical that they are still protecting Grämlins from anyone helping IRON (at least that seems to be the case from the unclear statements we've had from them on the matter) and providing material support to them on the basis of a minor OWF disagreement over a pointless thread.
[/quote]

In some respects I see where I might have been confusing in what I said, because yes I agree it is not right to continue the war and that CnG left because it wasn't something they were interested in, but what I was trying to get at is that if it was so unfair why did their allies leave them behind and agree to peace arrangements with every alliance but the exception of Gremlins?

I know it might have been confusing at the peace talks, I've seen first hand how confusing they can be. But if their alliances (IRON's) were so concerned, they should have held out until everyone got peace.

Now weeks later we have a branch of the war where Gremlins want what they can't have and people are posting up threads to open up the aid transactions to Gremlins as war support? Why can't IRON ask those alliances to stop if they are so choked up about it? IRON is winning this fight by all outside appearances but we're still here debating a pointless topic and bringing up notions that are fabricated.

TIFTDT or whatever the name was I forget got peace around the same time as a combined unit, IRON/Dawn - Gremlins was the only one that didn't. TOP appears just fine right now, why did they leave their ally in IRON to fight Gremlins? My point is that you can blame IRON's allies for leaving them to fight alone just as much as you can blame CnG for making neutrality part of the surrender terms and not letting them jump on Gremlins. Neutrality has been a part of surrenders for a long time, as long as I can remember, so why would it be any different now?

Again, my point is why did IRON's allies leave them behind if this was a remote possibility, and why can't IRON fight their war that they appear to be winning and handle the aid going to Gremlins without an outrage from the community and the community fabricating notions such as grand conspiracies.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='26 April 2010 - 02:33 PM' timestamp='1272306795' post='2276196']
would aiding Gramlins be breaking peace terms? would that mean IRON/DAWN owe no reps to whomever aided gramlins? Guess I need to go look over the peace terms.

just looking for a clarification.

Thank you,
CtG
[/quote]

The peace terms don't actually talk about non-aggression, so I would say no. The victorious alliances didn't really agree to anything in the ES accords.

[Geoffron X]

I can't be particularly surprised to see MHA on the list.