UCN Announcement

[Kongo Jack IV]

The merger wasnt the problem. We'll leave it at that.

[darkfox]

[quote name='Penkala' date='24 April 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1272170226' post='2273886']
What did you expect from a CDT alliance, really?
[/quote]

hehe a few things I enjoy about this comment. For instance how people often described UCN as a "CDT Alliance". As if UCN had no other qualities. Another thing is how someone could say something such as that just to display their ignorance. If you enjoy making yourself look foolish then kudos.


As for the speculation about why the merger failed it was my understanding that everything was hammered out except for the name.

[Dexomega]

[quote name='Penkala' date='24 April 2010 - 11:37 PM' timestamp='1272170226' post='2273886']What did you expect from a CDT alliance, really?
[/quote]
I'll be quick. You just made me a bit annoyed. You just implied that USN would leave our members out to dry.

Walk away right now before you stamp all over the USN-CSN relationship.

Walk.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

Wow, I've been on vacation and I find the complete lack of professionalism here disgusting.

Here's what happened, coming from a council member of UCN up until three days ago: We were discussing a merger with another alliance, and after almost three months of talks were ready to merge (had forums and all), but got hung up on a name. Attitudes flared, accusations were thrown, and I decided that, after two years (founder) in UCN, I'd had enough of the disrespect from the newer, inexperienced members. I posted my resignation, switched my AA, and went back to the forums to find (as expected) one of my close RL friends had also left. This set off a chain reaction of at least nine resignations, creating a panic/ripple/OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING situation. The two remaining council members, Minister of Silly Walks and Jonnygozy (Acting in place of O-Dog, whom is unable to take part due to medical issues) voted to disband, as the loss of members was appalling and there was no real way to continue on.

However, several UCN members decided to keep the alliance going, and actually had the nerve to flame MoSW on IRC. This is unacceptable, as has this whole situation been. I understand Zarachii's posting of this announcement, however I feel it would have been best left to actual UCN gov.

So, here's the tl;dr version:

UCN is disbanded. If you hear otherwise (er...read?), it holds as much legitimacy (at least for now) as a declaration of war from the Byzantine empire. I am saddened by the loss of UCN and did not expect it to happen following my departure, and feel somewhat responsible for the controversy on hand at the moment. If you'd like to, you can hold me responsible for this, and I would accept it, although I don't know what that would accomplish other than elevating the level of e-testosterone in your blood stream.

That wasn't too short of a tl;dr, was it?

tl was tl;dr: UCN is gone.


Edit: No, this did not happen because the merge fell through. The merge was still on track, I was just tired of the disrespect from a few members in general and left.

As for GOONS....I already respected you immensely. The self-proclaimed d-bag of Planet Bob hereby elevates his respect level further. Does that really matter? No, no not really.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Ernesto Che Guevara

[Zessa]

I'd just like to say I'm generally disappointed in this thread, with the exception of GOONS' actions. I salute you, GOONS.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Zessa' date='25 April 2010 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1272182881' post='2274138']
I'd just like to say I'm generally disappointed in this thread, with the exception of GOONS' actions. I salute you, GOONS.
[/quote]
Shh, haven't you heard? We're awful.

That being said, I wish luck to the ex-members of UCN, and... I guess the members of ex-UCN as well?

[nutkase]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' date='25 April 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1272182381' post='2274133']
Wow, I've been on vacation and I find the complete lack of professionalism here disgusting.

Here's what happened, coming from a council member of UCN up until three days ago: We were discussing a merger with another alliance, and after almost three months of talks were ready to merge (had forums and all), but got hung up on a name. Attitudes flared, accusations were thrown, and I decided that, after two years (founder) in UCN, I'd had enough of the disrespect from the newer, inexperienced members. I posted my resignation, switched my AA, and went back to the forums to find (as expected) one of my close RL friends had also left. This set off a chain reaction of at least nine resignations, creating a panic/ripple/OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING situation. The two remaining council members, Minister of Silly Walks and Jonnygozy (Acting in place of O-Dog, whom is unable to take part due to medical issues) voted to disband, as the loss of members was appalling and there was no real way to continue on.

However, several UCN members decided to keep the alliance going, and actually had the nerve to flame MoSW on IRC. This is unacceptable, as has this whole situation been. I understand Zarachii's posting of this announcement, however I feel it would have been best left to actual UCN gov.

So, here's the tl;dr version:

UCN is disbanded. If you hear otherwise (er...read?), it holds as much legitimacy (at least for now) as a declaration of war from the Byzantine empire. I am saddened by the loss of UCN and did not expect it to happen following my departure, and feel somewhat responsible for the controversy on hand at the moment. If you'd like to, you can hold me responsible for this, and I would accept it, although I don't know what that would accomplish other than elevating the level of e-testosterone in your blood stream.

That wasn't too short of a tl;dr, was it?

tl was tl;dr: UCN is gone.
[/quote]

Government is there to be the voice of the membership, not the other way around. If the membership did not want to be disbanded the government had no right.

Your basically saying that because you and other govertment members said so, UCN no longer exists. Actually had the nerve to flame MoSW, I would flame him too for trying to shut down a alliance without even telling the general membership of any intent of doing so.

So because you resigned along with a few others, UCN must be disbanded......what a joke.

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Lamuella' date='24 April 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1272147967' post='2273424']
to avoid the giant administrative headache that they would cause, any remaining reparations owed by UCN to GOONS are waived.
[/quote]
Good move, GOON's. I don't think I've ever said that before either.

[TheFlyingLobster]

Alright. Here's what I have to say about all of this. Basically, for 3 months we have been planning a mass merger, originally between UCN, FEAR, and another alliance roughly the same size who may or may not want to stay anonymous, but after some negotiations, it only became FEAR/UCN merging. All details were hammered out except for name and flag. UCN made a unanimous decision on the name and flag, which we all liked and were under the assumption that people in FEAR's government also agreed with, but not the general membership of FEAR. Atleast, this is what we were lead to believe. We also already had forums and the like set up. So we had to reset the process with about a week left until our intended merge date (4/25). There was much "arguing" over the new name, to the point where no one could agree on anything. After a snide remark from one of the members, Councilor Chax left after being stressed by the politics of the recent merger turmoil, with this, a vacuum effect happened and many members left, including many government members, active members, and the forum admin. With this sudden loss of guidance and power, it seemed several members attempted to fill the roles of government and keep UCN alive, but what was left of the original government did not agree with this.

This is what I have observed, if anything is wrong, feel free to call me out.

[monkeybum]

oh damn..

Nice move goons.

(checking my own pulse)

[R3nowned]

UCN disbanded, that's fine and legal by their charter etc.

It also got reformed by some of their members

Doesn't really warrant all this flame throwing.

[Bob Janova]

Regarding the question of whether it was legal or not, I can only quote my own words:
[i]"If this thread is at all accurate then ([b]regardless of whether it was technically legal or not[/b]) an extremely poor show by UCN government."[/i]

It seems from later posts from UCN figures that the impression of the thread up to that point was pretty much accurate, and it was an extremely poor show by UCN government. I don't care how stressed you are or who said what to whom, you don't disband an alliance from under the feet of the membership. UCN and UCN's allies should roll you for that, really.

There are some classy moves in this thread – by GOONS and some of UCN's allies – but I haven't seen any sign of class from the former UCN government.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Lamuella' date='24 April 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1272147967' post='2273424']
to avoid the giant administrative headache that they would cause, any remaining reparations owed by UCN to GOONS are waived.
[/quote]
Thank you very, very much.

I would avoid ascribing too much blame to any parties in this situation. It's pretty clear that there was an internal communications breakdown inside UCN, and the council members who put through the disbandment order were trying to do the right thing - they had already consulted with us to make sure their members were protected well before this thread was posted. Whether they were actually doing the right thing remains to be seen, but they did actually care about UCN; this isn't about a few egos.

Also, r3 is right.

[GulagArchipelago]

Good luck guys, really sad this happened.

o/ UCN
o/ MoSW, Zara, Foxy, and the rest of the gov.

[ClashCityRocker]

This obviously a very sad and tumultuous event, FEAR will continue to honor our treaties with UCN throughout it

[DirtDiver]

wow did not expect this what so ever. good luck everyone

[TheFlyingLobster]

I'd just like to point out that it seems the remaining government of UCN was attempting to go through some softer ways of breaking this bombshell onto the UCN membership, and this thread was not started by UCN government, but in fact a general member/membership flip-flopper. This greatly effected to disbandment. Such news was not meant to go mass-public for another day or so as everything was put in order. But it seems some of the membership couldn't wait until it was all worked out and posted this thread.

Edited April 25, 2010 by TheFlyingLobster

[Ponderas]

[quote name='TheFlyingLobster' date='25 April 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1272219736' post='2274539']
I'd just like to point out that it seems the remaining government of UCN was attempting to go through some softer ways of breaking this bombshell onto the UCN membership, and this thread was not started by UCN government, but in fact a general member/membership flip-flopper. This greatly effected to disbandment. Such news was not meant to go mass-public for another day or so as everything was put in order. But it seems some of the membership couldn't wait until it was all worked out and posted this thread.
[/quote]
Hmm, it seems like I need to join into this conversation now. I was the ex-Minister of Finance of the UCN, and did not resign, but was displaced by the disbandment.

Moth is right. Zara had resigned before the disbandment and therefore had no authority to post the official thread. But no use crying over spilled milk anyway.

To those of you who say stuff about how the government was acting out of line, keep in mind, there are less than five people who openly disagree with the disbandment at this time. We were trying to act in the best interests of the membership, and this move would help the majority of the membership. The AA of the United Commonwealth of Nations is now currently down to 55 total members, well under the peak of 128 in February. Now, half of the peaked membership has already changed AA's, which signifies a passive acceptance of their elected government's decisions. Only two people are currently struggling to keep UCN together. It's clear the government had the general consent of the membership of the UCN.

I'm probably going to get uber-flamed for speaking up now, but I need to put in my two cents.

GOONS, your waiver is greatly appreciated. I believe we still owed $39 mil in reps, and this move is like a gift from above.

[Bob]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' date='25 April 2010 - 03:59 AM' timestamp='1272182381' post='2274133']
Wow, I've been on vacation and I find the complete lack of professionalism here disgusting.

Here's what happened, coming from a council member of UCN up until three days ago: We were discussing a merger with another alliance, and after almost three months of talks were ready to merge (had forums and all), but got hung up on a name. Attitudes flared, accusations were thrown, and I decided that, after two years (founder) in UCN, I'd had enough of the disrespect from the newer, inexperienced members. I posted my resignation, switched my AA, and went back to the forums to find (as expected) one of my close RL friends had also left. This set off a chain reaction of at least nine resignations, creating a panic/ripple/OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING situation. The two remaining council members, Minister of Silly Walks and Jonnygozy (Acting in place of O-Dog, whom is unable to take part due to medical issues) voted to disband, as the loss of members was appalling and there was no real way to continue on.

However, several UCN members decided to keep the alliance going, and actually had the nerve to flame MoSW on IRC. This is unacceptable, as has this whole situation been. I understand Zarachii's posting of this announcement, however I feel it would have been best left to actual UCN gov.

So, here's the tl;dr version:

UCN is disbanded. If you hear otherwise (er...read?), it holds as much legitimacy (at least for now) as a declaration of war from the Byzantine empire. I am saddened by the loss of UCN and did not expect it to happen following my departure, and feel somewhat responsible for the controversy on hand at the moment. If you'd like to, you can hold me responsible for this, and I would accept it, although I don't know what that would accomplish other than elevating the level of e-testosterone in your blood stream.

That wasn't too short of a tl;dr, was it?

tl was tl;dr: UCN is gone.


Edit: No, this did not happen because the merge fell through. The merge was still on track, I was just tired of the disrespect from a few members in general and left.

As for GOONS....I already respected you immensely. The self-proclaimed d-bag of Planet Bob hereby elevates his respect level further. Does that really matter? No, no not really.
[/quote]
I came here to insult you, and then didn't want to. D: good luck in the future dude, and sad to see that is how it ended up for you guys.

[lazaraus45]

[quote name='Dexomega' date='25 April 2010 - 06:10 AM' timestamp='1272172193' post='2273937']
I'll be quick. You just made me a bit annoyed. You just implied that USN would leave our members out to dry.

Walk away right now before you stamp all over the USN-CSN relationship.

Walk.
[/quote]

actually i think he implied that he expected nothing but poor form from a CDT alliance,

the fact that your first response is to claim that one non-government members opinion is stamping on the USN-CSN relationship doesn't do much to prove him wrong

[Baltus]

A shame, and though I would have talked of how you should have talked to your members, it seems they have indirectly accepted your decision. All the same, good luck to you.

Goons, nicely done.

[Xerxes II]

[quote name='Dexomega' date='25 April 2010 - 12:10 AM' timestamp='1272172193' post='2273937']
I'll be quick. You just made me a bit annoyed. You just implied that USN would leave our members out to dry.

Walk away right now before you stamp all over the USN-CSN relationship.

Walk.
[/quote]

1) Wait...I thought we were on a break? When did you guys start talking to us again?
2) Pretty sure your response worsened relations more than Penkala's. My view of USN gov't has certainly worsened as a result of your post (and I haven't held a high opinion to begin with). Plus, how can our alliances have a relationship if you're going to tell everyone from our alliance who annoys you to walk away? It would probably be best to leave the whole USN-CSN thing to your Foreign Affairs people.

On topic now:

Ernesto, thanks for clarifying the situation. Best of luck to you and the others at UCN!

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

As mothman said, you cannot hold this against the UCN government. They were attempting to work this out with the membership, and inform them of what had happened, but this thread was started before they could.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Dexomega' date='25 April 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1272172193' post='2273937']
I'll be quick. You just made me a bit annoyed. You just implied that USN would leave our members out to dry.

Walk away right now before you stamp all over the USN-CSN relationship.

Walk.
[/quote]


Oh no not our relationship with USN! D:

[quote]actually i think he implied that he expected nothing but poor form from a CDT alliance,[/quote]

Pretty much. But don't let the facts stand in the way of him telling a general member of CSN to go away otherwise risk a negative political response against the entire alliance.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Penkala

[Lord Brendan]

The regrettable decline of CSN-USN relations is not the topic of this thread. Just let it go please.