IRON Dispatch

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Interesting to see people arguing the FAN war and ignoring the Woodstock Massacre. Guess that's because the former can actually be argued, sort of.

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Dinux' date='21 April 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1271884923' post='2269560']
Sry Rab, Me bad.....

The 2:nd part of my Q was [i](meant[/i]) too adress the relationship with NPO at current date.
And if IRON saw some part that they like to improve, What would that be?
[/quote]

Ah no worries man, if I could change anything about the relationship, it would be the way it ended, while towards the outbreak of the Karma war there were well documented communication issues between the two alliances, the timing of our cancellation was totally inappropriate and did a disservice to what had in general been a very fruitful relationship. As for the current state of relations with NPO, I would say that I am perfectly happy with the state of relations between our two alliances and there is no need for improvement.

We have had the chance during NPO's occupation to chat at length about the events of Karma and I believe we have both come to terms with each others position at that time.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

In response to the several responses I've collected since my last post, I guess what I'm asking is what makes IRON more independent than any other alliance on CN? You could make a claim that you were notably independent before you had MDPs, but once you signed with MXCA and the rest you weren't different from any other alliance. You've "defined down" independence to be "whatever we want to do" - so why celebrate that? It's like celebrating having a charter or being a collection of nations organized to provide common security and community.

[President Obama]

Happy birthday IRON.

[scytale]

Happy Birthday!

Is this why our IRON diplomat sent me a message from Dom Zak? Well, get me my diplomat mask and I'll come on by to help you celebrate!

[Cynic2]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='21 April 2010 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1271869169' post='2269223']
You shouldn't have felt threatened once you got word of the curbstomp (the day you "amazingly" also treatied into the fight) because FAN was going to be buried under WUT's numbers.[/quote]

Let me go ahead and clarify so that you will cease to misunderstand how the Blue Steel Concords came to be. Believe it or not it wasn't directly tied to FAN. I would know because I was the one who negotiated the treaty with MCXA at the time and our reasons weren't because we wanted to roll FAN. i don't think that I will be breaking any protocol by saying that when I approached Dr. Fresh with the idea of a treaty we did not know who the target of the upcoming curbstomp was going to be. I had been talking back and forth with MCXA leaders on IRC for a while and genuinely thought that they would be great allies, almost as great as NPO would have been because our relations with them had always been cordial and of mutual respect.

Truth be told IRON leadership, myself included were more than a little concerned that we were possibly TI's next target and at the time we all considered it necessary to find friends so that we would not get destroyed. GOONS, FAN, and \m/ were always looking at us as targets and quite frankly it made me quite weary having to walk on eggshells in order to just survive.

We drafted the BSC shortly before the update because I trusted MCXA (In particular Dr. Fresh) would have our backs just as we would have theirs and also I wanted to try to get IRON treatied in some way with the WUT so that they wouldn't see us as a big, inexperienced militarily target.

The BSC did exist before the FAN conflict, it just wasn't announced because MCXA wanted to wait before making the announcement for reasons that you'd have to ask their leadership from that time. We didn't sign it knowing that FAN was going to be curbstomped, quite the opposite actually.

I was the only member of IRON at the time that knew who the traget was going to be and in fact kept that to myself until after the rest of the council signed off on the treaty because it likely wouldn't have been signed had they known for sure that we were not the target...

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Cynic' date='21 April 2010 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1271895836' post='2269868']
I was the only member of IRON at the time that knew who the traget was going to be and in fact kept that to myself until after the rest of the council signed off on the treaty because it likely wouldn't have been signed had they known for sure that we were not the target...
[/quote]
The rest of your post is all fine and good but this amuses me. IRON wouldn't have signed a treaty with MCXA (thus tying you to the Pacifican hegemony) if they had known the upcoming curbstomp wasn't directed at you? Did you feel bad deceiving your alliance to seal the deal you negotiated? I mean, IRON could've remained actually independent if you had been forthcoming with pretty major intelligence instead of manipulating your alliance.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Arcturus Jefferson

[Cynic2]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='21 April 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1271886275' post='2269604']
As Fury stated privately, it was signed by both parties as an MDP secretly. We said "Strong ODP" in public. We *did* change it, but it was still technically an MDP at first.[/quote]

It is true that privately it was considered an MDP, but when GUARD signatories started blasting ONOS for signing an external MDP (against their bloc charter) you guys were quick to come into the thread without conulting IRON at all you as their MOFA said that I had mistyped the draft that was agreed upon and I was 'forced' to change it after the announcement was already posted. Suffice it to say that right there showed me that if ONOS were so quick to deny our [b]mutual[/b] agreement that if we were attacked they'd only defend us if we had the advantage so when I obtained the spying evidence my feelings weren't hurt when we dropped that treaty like a block of cement.

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='21 April 2010 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1271896529' post='2269885']
The rest of your post is all fine and good but this amuses me. IRON wouldn't have signed a treaty with MCXA (thus tying you to the Pacifican hegemony) if they had known the upcoming curbstomp wasn't directed at you? Did you feel bad deceiving your alliance to seal the deal you negotiated? I mean, IRON could've remained actually independent if you had been forthcoming with pretty major intelligence instead of manipulating your alliance.
[/quote]

Perhaps you aren't aware of the political climate at the time. IRON was isolated and a top 3 alliance, we had many enemies and we had seen many of our friends destroyed in 3 Great Wars, do you seriously think that any of them would have fought for us when we had remained neutral in wars where we could possibly have tipped the scales in their favor? I did not decieve anyone, I simply kept my silence and let the leadership vote on the treaty. Voting against it would have meant that we were a potential target when the WUT was done burning FAN to the ground.

TI would roll alliances because there was no opposition, and TI was a bloc that needed wars to remain cohesive, even if it meant ejecting or turning on one of their members. Politics requires a pallet for doing things that sometimes leave a bad taste in your mouth, that is why I am glad to be retired from it.

Bottom line is I did what I had to do to ensure the safety and survival of IRON's 800 or so members at the time and I have no regrets about that.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Cynic

[Dathtoal]

Happy 4th fellas

o/

[Gizmo]

Happy 4th Birthday IRON!
Stay classy!
o/

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Geoffron X' date='21 April 2010 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1271830943' post='2268918']
They're paying reps. (Or are going to, at least). I don't think I've ever seen an alliance do more than that after they lose a war.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. You're saying you've never seen an alliance do something more than paying reparations after losing a war? Care to clarify?

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Cynic' date='21 April 2010 - 08:45 PM' timestamp='1271897125' post='2269897']
Perhaps you aren't aware of the political climate at the time. IRON was isolated and a top 3 alliance, we had many enemies and we had seen many of our friends destroyed in 3 Great Wars, do you seriously think that any of them would have fought for us when we had remained neutral in wars where we could possibly have tipped the scales in their favor? I did not decieve anyone, I simply kept my silence and let the leadership vote on the treaty. Voting against it would have meant that we were a potential target when the WUT was done burning FAN to the ground.[/quote]
You were alone because you let your so-called friends die.

[quote]TI would roll alliances because there was no opposition, and TI was a bloc that needed wars to remain cohesive, even if it meant ejecting or turning on one of their members. Politics requires a pallet for doing things that sometimes leave a bad taste in your mouth, that is why I am glad to be retired from it.

Bottom line is I did what I had to do to ensure the safety and survival of IRON's 800 or so members at the time and I have no regrets about that.
[/quote]At least you acknowledge how !@#$@#$ terrible the Pacifican hegemony was, which is more than I can say for a lot of your former comrades.

[Cynic2]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='21 April 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1271898873' post='2269943']
[color="#0000FF"]You were alone because you let your so-called friends die.[/color]

At least you acknowledge how !@#$@#$ terrible the Pacifican hegemony was, which is more than I can say for a lot of your former comrades.
[/quote]

[color="#0000FF"]Yes that's true but they were 'left to die' by my predecessors, the government that I was a part of had to deal with things as they were.[/color]

I have no problem acknowledging facts. As for my former comrades I don't think that all of them (or even a majority) thought that The Initiative were a bunch of swell guys, but we did what we had to do to survive in those times and considering that IRON is still here and even flourished in a time when many were beaten down and in fear demonstrates that it was a sound political move.

And don't get confused, GOONS, FAN, NPO, NpO, TOP and even \m/ were alliances that I had respect for for one reason or another. I didn't particularly dislike any of them. I did dislike how TI being so dominant caused stagnation because all of the major alliances risked a curbstomping if they went to war. I may have not been fond of the bloc collectively but I did respect many of their member alliances or at least some of the leaders of those alliances.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Cynic' date='21 April 2010 - 08:45 PM' timestamp='1271897125' post='2269897']
It is true that privately it was considered an MDP, but when GUARD signatories started blasting ONOS for signing an external MDP (against their bloc charter) you guys were quick to come into the thread without conulting IRON at all you as their MOFA said that I had mistyped the draft that was agreed upon and I was 'forced' to change it after the announcement was already posted. Suffice it to say that right there showed me that if ONOS were so quick to deny our [b]mutual[/b] agreement that if we were attacked they'd only defend us if we had the advantage so when I obtained the spying evidence my feelings weren't hurt when we dropped that treaty like a block of cement.
[/quote]

I was gone before the spying incidents thankfully, but I don't recall anyone making it a big deal when you posted the wrong treaty. You *did* post the wrong treaty, as you were busy in real life and your ambassador I believe confused you:
[quote]I have amended the OP to reflect the oversight and apologize for the confusion. I have been extremely busy with internal matters for the past few days and posted our earlier drafted treaty, and did not recognize that it had been amended as the member of our diplomatic corps who Tom handed it over to never presented it to me.Sorry for the confusion once again, and it was not intentional.[/quote]

We never "forced you" to do *anything*, or if my superiors did, I wouldn't have known. I was told to post it from our benevolent dictator, I did so as ordered; it wasn't intentionally malicious, we just posted the wrong treaty which neither of us caught onto. We still kept it an MDP after discussions were over, we just removed the clause which caused many turned heads.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Ejayrazz

[thatguybil]

[quote name='Heft' date='20 April 2010 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1271813991' post='2268535']
Yay team.

[quote]Cynic, on 20 April 2010 - 07:36 PM, said:

I remember you and it's good to see that you worked your way up the ranks. I came back and kept my head down just so that I can enjoy just being a regular member, I never forgot you guys its just that there's no way I would have been able to do that if I rejoined when I restarted...[/quote]

Huh. Alright then.
[/quote]

Yeah my thoughts exactly Heft.... Furytear...

The guy who invented
"are you a neurosurgeon? No but I did stay at a holiday in express in Francograd, Pacifica."

The guy who played the "My girl friend got run over by a car in Francograd" card.

The guy who show'd everyone in IRON pictures of himself that were clearly of a Francograd underwear model...

That Furytear

IC FtW...

[Lord Brendan]

Somehow missed the Furytear mention. Though I never knew him, were it not for him I would most likely not be in the Commonwealth today.

I suppose that's one thing to thank IRON for.

[Michael Schumacher]

Happy Birthday to our good friends in IRON. Here's to 4 more.
[img]http://www.whiskygrotto.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/johnnie_walker-blending-kit.jpg[/img]

You all rock!!

o/IRON

[Heft]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='21 April 2010 - 07:35 PM' timestamp='1271896529' post='2269885']
The rest of your post is all fine and good but this amuses me. IRON wouldn't have signed a treaty with MCXA (thus tying you to the Pacifican hegemony) if they had known the upcoming curbstomp wasn't directed at you? Did you feel bad deceiving your alliance to seal the deal you negotiated? I mean, IRON could've remained actually independent if you had been forthcoming with pretty major intelligence instead of manipulating your alliance.
[/quote]
Furytear wasn't always right. I'm pretty sure we would have signed it even if we had known FAN was being targeted in that particular instance, as it didn't really change the fundamental situation (and if anything would only have confirmed the idea that the Orders no longer had a firm hold on the rest of WUT).

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='21 April 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1271898873' post='2269943']
You were alone because you let your so-called friends die.

At least you acknowledge how !@#$@#$ terrible the Pacifican hegemony was, which is more than I can say for a lot of your former comrades.
[/quote]
I don't think IRON left any real friends to die, personally, but that's not really relevant.

And besides, Pacific was never the issue to be concerned about in the Initiative. The decline of Pacifican power over the Initiative was more of an issue, to be honest.

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='21 April 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1271900838' post='2270000']
I was gone before the spying incidents thankfully, but I don't recall anyone making it a big deal when you posted the wrong treaty. You *did* post the wrong treaty, as you were busy in real life and your ambassador I believe confused you:


We never "forced you" to do *anything*, or if my superiors did, I wouldn't have known. I was told to post it from our benevolent dictator, I did so as ordered; it wasn't intentionally malicious, we just posted the wrong treaty which neither of us caught onto. We still kept it an MDP after discussions were over, we just removed the clause which caused many turned heads.
[/quote]
Nah, ONOS pussied out when they started catching !@#$ from the rest of GUARD and left Furytear holding the bag and looking dumb. Pretty much killed that relationship before it ever got a chance to walk.

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Heft' date='21 April 2010 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1271908036' post='2270194']
Nah, ONOS pussied out when they started catching !@#$ from the rest of GUARD and left Furytear holding the bag and looking dumb. Pretty much killed that relationship before it ever got a chance to walk.
[/quote]
As far as I was informed, the wrong treaty was posted and it still meant the same, but I left soon after if I recall. Like I said, I wasn't calling the shots in that situation.

[Dom Zak]

Happy Birthday IRON!
I love you

And ya... can this not turn into an argument thread. It has nothing to do with our birthday and it'd be nice if you could do it in a PM.

Thanks!

o/

[Cynic2]

[quote name='rithral' date='21 April 2010 - 10:04 PM' timestamp='1271901860' post='2270032']
Yeah my thoughts exactly Heft.... Furytear...

The guy who invented
"are you a neurosurgeon? No but I did stay at a holiday in express in Francograd, Pacifica."

The guy who played the "My girl friend got run over by a car in Francograd" card.

The guy who show'd everyone in IRON pictures of himself that were clearly of a Francograd underwear model...

That Furytear

IC FtW...
[/quote]

[OOC]1. I fail to see what my RL occupation has to do with anything.
2. My fiancee died as a result of that crash you @!#&* and it was one of the biggest contributing factors to me quitting the game even though I had just started my alliance shortly thereafter.
3. Pictures you say? I only ever posted one image of myself and honestly don't care who thought what of it.
4. You obviously have some obsession with Francograd which is a place I have never been to personally and don't have any connection with.[/OOC]

I don't recognize your name but from your tone obviously you have some kind of grudge. Since I don't know what it is I cannot address it one way or another. Besides this thread is about IRON celebrating 4 years of existance, I think that I for one have derailed it enough. If you have an axe to grind you can take your shots at me or talk about it with me via P.M.

[Stetson76]

Congratulations on the milestone IRON.

[shahenshah]

o\ To alot more o\

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='dvdcchn' date='20 April 2010 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1271798445' post='2268135']
if you have any questions for the IRON council, please feel free to ask.
[/quote]

[quote name='Dom Zak' date='22 April 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1271911898' post='2270291']
And ya... can this not turn into an argument thread. It has nothing to do with our birthday and it'd be nice if you could do it in a PM.
[/quote]

Which is it?

[shilo]

Heh, a 4 year anniversary thread of IRON brings Furytear back into the light. I guess the world is a small place afterall...