GDA Imposing Tech Sanctions on Gramlins

[Lord GVChamp]

Wow, I actually kinda agree with Londo.

Have I inadvertently become evil?

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Buds The Man' date='15 April 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1271349858' post='2261445']
Nice i was ignored earlier i will ask again, Is selling tech to an alliance at war still considered an act of war. If not, why not anymore. CnG as a whole is not directly aiding Gre via tech or money but they are holding the chains on IRONs allies who could help put a stop to it. So in essence you are aiding Gre and while its a bit of a stretch your still fighting IRON via proxy due to current climate. Im no fan of GDA not by a long shot but I do appreciate them at least saying NO to tech deals with alliances at war.
[/quote]

Bud..Bud...Bud...you're trying to use common sense with someone who thinks that TOP/IRON/DAWN/etc. was actually out to *destroy* C&G...with their Romulan Warbirds, or Shadow technology, or maybe an Imperial Super Star Destroyer. Since nothing about the assembled assault force against C&G had a freaking prayer of destroying C&G, clearly some sort of alien technology must have been in play.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='15 April 2010 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1271351088' post='2261469']
Wow, I actually kinda agree with Londo.

Have I inadvertently become evil?
[/quote]

No you aren't becoming evil. This announcement is utter ridiculous, unnecessary and to see both parties bawwing at each other about things they can't influence anyway is making my head ache. For the love of Admin, stop it.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='15 April 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1271351088' post='2261469']
Wow, I actually kinda agree with Londo.

Have I inadvertently become evil?
[/quote]

No, but you really, really should seek help. Today.

[quote name='kriekfreak' date='15 April 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1271351356' post='2261472']
No you aren't becoming evil. This announcement is utter ridiculous, unnecessary and to see both parties bawwing at each other about things they can't influence anyway is making my head ache. For the love of Admin, stop it.
[/quote]

Was this announcement intended to end the war? No. Is it a standard notification in these forums? Yes. Was that an ulterior motive to spur interest in the IRON/DAWN/Gramlins war as a topic and the need for aid to Gramlins to stop? I can't speak for GDA, but the answer is probably is. It is therefore not ridiculous at all. But hey, if it makes your head hurt, why are you even reading this topic, let alone responding to it?

Edited April 15, 2010 by ChairmanHal

[Heft]

It's okay, Londo isn't ever allowed to have an opinion or take any actions on things he disapproves of ever again after he wantonly attacked an entire alliance without cause.

[Commander Cato]

Good show from the GDA

[King MyLife]

Big freakin whoop..They still find ways for tech deals just like everyone else...

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 01:46 AM' timestamp='1271310401' post='2261006']
Just because they didn't do it on their own doesn't erase their culpability.

And it doesn't make it any less funny to hear former hegemonists crying now that the shoe is on the other foot. "Oh lawdy lawdy, we haz seen the light!"


[/quote]
That's a face palm, and quite redundant. Alliances change, ideals change, and people move forward. Let's dwell on the past so we can't look forward to the future; awesome!

Good show GDA. I am not the biggest fan on your past either, but I do know how to praise forward steps when I see them. Good show, and ignore the haters,

Edited April 15, 2010 by Ejayrazz

[Alterego]

[quote name='mylife125' date='15 April 2010 - 06:18 PM' timestamp='1271351908' post='2261480']
Big freakin whoop..They still find ways for tech deals just like everyone else...


[/quote]
Its symbolic, how low do you have to go before a neutral alliance goes and does something like this. Gramlins and those who are prepared to protect them should realise how far off the beaten track they have travelled. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Alterego

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='15 April 2010 - 11:48 AM' timestamp='1271346511' post='2261384']
A. So exactly what would you have GDA do? Continue to do tech deals with Gramlins? Why? So that they can continue to provide direct support to Gramlins (instead of being "passive aggressive")? Really?[/quote]

Um, no. You missed my point. I was talking in context to the whole "neutrality" argument. I completely agree with what they did, symbolic or not. I do not care for Gramlins anymore and I think what they are doing now is absolutely stupid.

[quote]B. GDA is making a perfectly valid announcement in an appropriate portion of the forums. Whether they are currently doing 10 tech deals or 100 tech deals, that is still true.[/quote]

So I should expect to see approximately 40 topics regarding tech deals in the up and coming war? That is just nonsense. Again, I don't know the amount or quantity to which GDA was supplying Gramlins, but assuming it was little, it could be safe to assume that a private channel correspondence would be in order. To each his own.

[quote]You seem disappointed that Gramlins will no longer be getting tech from GDA. Should we take that as that you, along apparently with Athens, are in full support of Gramlins actions against DAWN and IRON?
[/quote]

That is probably the clearest example of a straw man. Fantastic, nicely done. That is, though, taking eh etymology from the one provided by its wiki. Regardless, you assume way too much and misunderstood the entire premise of my argument.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Alterego' date='15 April 2010 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1271353069' post='2261497']
Its symbolic, how low do you have to go before a neutral alliance goes and does something like this. Gramlins and those who are prepared to protect them should realise how far off the beaten track they have travelled. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
[/quote]

It's sad because I actually agree with you Alterego, or at least in regard to Gramlins. I can assure you that I know a bunch of government who are dazed and confused as to why Gramlins are continuing down this frivolous road. Excuse this as this is not meant to be ad hominem, but Ram is not the most understanding fellow... if you ever read any of the other logs posted somewhere on pastebin or shared amongst certain circles, it becomes painfully clear that his logic is rather unique.

[Ashok]

Good showing GDA don't much about you guys but I like that someone is actually willing to take some action besides just talking about doing something. I hope that Athens as a whole does not share Londo's views of IRON/DAWN vs Gre war

[Remaliat]

Hmmm... I find myself in the unusual position of supporting a decision by GDA. I am not quite sure what to make of that...

I suppose I will just applaud the courage of GDA and remind everyone to look at the terms Grämlins have proposed from a different perspective before you condemn this.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Remaliat' date='15 April 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1271354626' post='2261523']
Hmmm... I find myself in the unusual position of supporting a decision by GDA. I am not quite sure what to make of that...

I suppose I will just applaud the courage of GDA and remind everyone to look at the terms Grämlins have proposed from a different perspective before you condemn this.
[/quote]

Londo and his NPO commentary aside, I don't think most of us are condemning the act. I think the idea is that making a public announcement about it seems more like a publicity stunt than anything and sort of takes away from the gesture. I know several alliances who are not willing to tech deal with the little green creatures, but thankfully they aren't cluttering up the OWF with announcements saying so.

[Carlton the Great]

Nicely done GDA. Here's hoping many more alliances will follow you.

[shilo]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='15 April 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1271346307' post='2261377']
surely gda's vast economic power will cause gre to think twice...

Seriously, were you even selling to them at all? You just posted this for ~teh hails~.
[/quote]
It doesn't matter, even if they never had dealings with gRAMlins before, they are still doing more than for example the gang in here decrying GDAs action, ie they don't just say they dislike what gRAMlins are doing and are at the same time putting their military umbrella over gRAMlins, they say they don't like and they make it clear publically they will not passively support them.
I know it hurts if some alliances do infact act on what they say, rather than acting hypocritical, but it still is a thoroughly right thing to do.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='15 April 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1271351311' post='2261471']
Bud..Bud...Bud...you're trying to use common sense with someone who thinks that TOP/IRON/DAWN/etc. was actually out to *destroy* C&G...with their Romulan Warbirds, or Shadow technology, or maybe an Imperial Super Star Destroyer. Since nothing about the assembled assault force against C&G had a freaking prayer of destroying C&G, clearly some sort of alien technology must have been in play.
[/quote]
Don't tell them about my Death Star though, I've been hiding it away behind the moon incase the gRAMlins get too courageous...

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' date='15 April 2010 - 07:16 PM' timestamp='1271355391' post='2261535']
Londo and his NPO commentary aside, I don't think most of us are condemning the act. I think the idea is that making a public announcement about it seems more like a publicity stunt than anything and sort of takes away from the gesture. I know several alliances who are not willing to tech deal with the little green creatures, but thankfully they aren't cluttering up the OWF with announcements saying so.
[/quote]

I think Van Hoo sums it up nicely. Thanks, my job here is done.

[StevieG]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' date='16 April 2010 - 07:16 AM' timestamp='1271355391' post='2261535']
Londo and his NPO commentary aside, I don't think most of us are condemning the act. I think the idea is that making a public announcement about it seems more like a publicity stunt than anything and sort of takes away from the gesture. I know several alliances who are not willing to tech deal with the little green creatures, but thankfully they aren't cluttering up the OWF with announcements saying so.
[/quote]

I think IRON and DAWN are grateful for the gesture, as it helps bring about more awareness of their plight, if not also a little less damage capability by the way of decreased tech levels to Gramlins nations. And will hopefully bring about more alliances taking a similar stance, with the ultimate goal being Gramlins backing down from their ridiculous position.

Edited April 15, 2010 by StevieG

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='15 April 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1271353346' post='2261499']
Um, no. You missed my point. I was talking in context to the whole "neutrality" argument. I completely agree with what they did, symbolic or not. I do not care for Gramlins anymore and I think what they are doing now is absolutely stupid. [/quote]

Bud had an interesting point that others missed along these lines. The act of doing tech deals with an alliance at war traditionally makes you culpable for providing them aid and makes you subject to attack. This is why NPO raised such a big stink about not wanting to send out tech to C&G and its allies and why GOD was looked down upon by the general community for putting NPO into a position of having to send them aid during the war despite NPO's strong desire to remain neutral.

[quote]So I should expect to see approximately 40 topics regarding tech deals in the up and coming war? That is just nonsense. Again, I don't know the amount or quantity to which GDA was supplying Gramlins, but assuming it was little, it could be safe to assume that a private channel correspondence would be in order. To each his own.[/quote]

From what I've read in the thread so far there was some sort of ongoing relationship. As to seeing 40 topics...no, but rest assured that you'll see topics from people who matter and who wish their desire for neutrality to be known.

[quote]That is probably the clearest example of a straw man. Fantastic, nicely done. That is, though, taking eh etymology from the one provided by its wiki. Regardless, you assume way too much and misunderstood the entire premise of my argument.
[/quote]

At least I didn't ask you if you stopped beating your wife yet.

[ratonbox]

[quote name='sippyjuice' date='15 April 2010 - 07:00 PM' timestamp='1271347238' post='2261393']
1) Yes, GDA has a history of having people participate in Gramlins tech deals, at the request of Ramirus himself. It had stopped for a time, due to the recent political upheaval coming from the war. Ramirus had come to us last month about when we would be ready to start up again.

2) Yes we know this is a small move. Even we can tell you that we aren't the greatest economic powerhouse on Planet Bob. But we couldn't just sit there and allow Gramlins' moves to go along unnoticed. So in the words of many, we decided to do something about it.

3) As to the people who are bringing up the past, I'm the only current government member who was also government during Karma War. If you want to say anything about that, come find me on IRC.
[/quote]

This was supposed to provide everything that you all need/want to know. Why did nobody read/quote this? Everybody keeps trowing ideas(good and bad, mostly the last type) around and they don't even bother taking in consideration the fact that someone involved, that knows what he talks about, just answered all your questions, right there.

Edited April 15, 2010 by ratonbox

[Alterego]

GDA now a Gramlin free zone

[img]http://warwickdavis.co.uk/images/no_gremlins.jpg[/img]

[wickedj]

This doesnt really accomplish much...

[Vladimir Stukov II]

[quote name='wickedj' date='15 April 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1271363941' post='2261663']
This doesnt really accomplish much...
[/quote]

It can if more alliances follow suit.

[Letum]

In this thread, the word NPO appears 85 times, and the words Gramlins/Grämlins appear 77 times.

Looks like someone has a bit of work to do before they can out-do our reputation.


(For whoever doesn't get it, that is a sarcastic and unsubtle reminder for people to talk about the topic, not about an alliance that hasn't been part of world affairs for almost a year.)

Edited April 15, 2010 by Letum

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 06:37 AM' timestamp='1271309851' post='2260998']
You mean like how GDA kept the NPO propped up for years by being allied to them when NPO was holding FAN hostage?

Yeah... cry me a river.
[/quote]

Get over yourself Londo.

That is in the past. Retribution has been made. Stop condemning the actions of alliances from the past when things have already been done to rectify the situation.

This is now. They are taking a stand NOW. That is what is important here.

[quote name='Arcades057' date='15 April 2010 - 06:54 AM' timestamp='1271310871' post='2261014']
So then Athens supports the actions of Gramlins in this situation?
[/quote]

Good to know.


Thank you for taking a more concrete public stand GDA! We appreciate the support.