GDA Imposing Tech Sanctions on Gramlins

[President Hardin]

[quote name='Scorbolt' date='15 April 2010 - 03:46 AM' timestamp='1271317596' post='2261108']
This doesn't sound like a neutral policy. You've lost me.
[/quote]

my point i should have made about the neutral issue was that we are not here to debate the war itself. the war issue itself is between the alliances involved. we are not here to discuss who should surrender and who shouldnt. the point we are making is that any alliance, whoever they are, doesn't have the right to demand just anything on god's green earth in order for it to accept another alliances surrender.

if the roles were reversed and IRON was demanding the same stipulations of Gramlins then this post would be condemning their conditions of surrender if they were in fact as outlandish as the ones stated by the Gramlins. This is not about the war in general but the over the top conditions attached.

Having said that, yes this can be construed as symbolic, as we do not have mass tech deals with either alliance. But we are reserving our right as a member of the CN community to speak our mind in a peaceful manner about issues that we have disagreements with. It is a courtesy given to us all and one I would like to see more alliances use.

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Smacky' date='15 April 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1271317644' post='2261109']
Yeah. You'd have a point if random alliances who have never bothered a fly were being singled out. The punishment fits the crime, there's no limit to what can be done to NPO and their former cronies since it's all been done by them before. Try that argument again when CnG and SF raid GPA then make them pay reps for the pleasure.

You've already established the rules [b]you[/b] play by so don't whine when others play [b]your[/b] game with you. IRON should be able to appreciate someone demanding things they don't want to give, right?
[/quote]

Except of course the likes of you and others sold yourselves on the basis of a fairer Bob where no alliance had to fear oppression. I said it back then and it still holds true today, the only change the likes of you an your lot were interested in was who was running the game. You don't don't care and never have cared about making the game fairer for all.

Why should we appreciate it? We understand it but unlike the various alliances on your side we are not so meekly fragile in will to accept it.

The great thing about Karma though is its a never ending cycle.

[Poyplemonkeys]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 06:37 AM' timestamp='1271309851' post='2260998']
You mean like how GDA kept the NPO propped up for years by being allied to them when NPO was holding FAN hostage?

Yeah... cry me a river.
[/quote]
You mean how everyone brings up the period of NPO rule as an excuse to act like dicks now? Fair enough NPO hit 10/10 and alliances enabled that, how does that make enabling someone to reach 9/10 on the scale a good thing? People seriously need to quit using this argument, it's complete nonsense.

Would like to know what heinous crimes GDA in particular have committed since they received their Karma too. Just because they haven't upped and jumped into bed with your side of the web doesn't mean they haven't changed.

[Vladimir Stukov II]

Apparently two wrongs make a right? I just find it funny how the people who always cried about how horrible NPO were are exactly the same as them now that they are in power.

[shilo]

What has what NPO did in the past to do with what gRAMlins are doing now?
I fail to see the connection, I do note how many suddenly are shouting at GDA for actually doing more than talking regarding the gRAMlins. Obviously here, all the unrelated talk about what other alliances did in the past is just a distraction from the fact that quite a few here revealed they support gRAMlins and what they are doing, and that someone else dared interfere with that.
It's good to see that some think having been victims in the past gets them a free ride for as long as they want being the new oppressors. Makes you think they should have stayed victims for much longer.

[Poyplemonkeys]

[quote name='Vladimir Stukov II' date='15 April 2010 - 11:36 AM' timestamp='1271327760' post='2261194']
Apparently two wrongs make a right? I just find it funny how the people who always cried about how horrible NPO were are exactly the same as them now that they are in power.
[/quote]

More complete nonsense. Personally I'm sick of the hyperbole flying in from both sides. Would actually gain a hell of a lot of respect for anyone who just decided to tell it how it is for once.

[Moridin]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='14 April 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1271309851' post='2260998']
You mean like how GDA kept the NPO propped up for years by being allied to them when NPO was holding FAN hostage?

Yeah... cry me a river.
[/quote]

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that because GDA made the wrong decision three years ago, they should again make the wrong decision today? Making the right choice is laudable, even if I am skeptical of how much of an effect it will have on the Grämlins.

[Eric Cantona]

I'm half-tempted to warn you lot. As much as you want to make it, this thread is not about NPO, not about MK, not about Vox Populi... Drop it. NOW.

[Haflinger]

edit: mod posted same time as me

Edited April 15, 2010 by Haflinger

[Lackistan]

Interesting that you were apparently still doing tech deals with them while they are at war.

Back in my day, that was verboten.

[mike717]

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' date='15 April 2010 - 04:47 AM' timestamp='1271324814' post='2261171']
You mean how everyone brings up the period of NPO rule as an excuse to act like dicks now? Fair enough NPO hit 10/10 and alliances enabled that, how does that make enabling someone to reach 9/10 on the scale a good thing? People seriously need to quit using this argument, it's complete nonsense.

Would like to know what heinous crimes GDA in particular have committed since they received their Karma too. Just because they haven't upped and jumped into bed with your side of the web doesn't mean they haven't changed.
[/quote]


I find it laughable that certain former NPO allies are repeatedly told that their actions will speak louder than their words to show true change, yet every action that shows it is recieved with cries of "You Hypocrites!"

This policy is an excellent policy GDA.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Lackistan' date='15 April 2010 - 07:11 AM' timestamp='1271329895' post='2261209']
Interesting that you were apparently still doing tech deals with them while they are at war.

Back in my day, that was verboten.
[/quote]
I count 34 separate AAs showing current tech deals with Gremlins; however, GDA are not among them.

[Tarikmo]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='15 April 2010 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1271330519' post='2261213']
I count 34 separate AAs showing current tech deals with Gremlins; however, GDA are not among them.
[/quote]
Actually, there is one, but it's a few days before this announcement.

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=181909&Extended=1

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 03:46 PM' timestamp='1271310401' post='2261006']
Just because they didn't do it on their own doesn't erase their culpability.

And it doesn't make it any less funny to hear former hegemonists crying now that the shoe is on the other foot. "Oh lawdy lawdy, we haz seen the light!"


[/quote]
Does this mean you are admitting to being a hegemonist?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tarikmo' date='15 April 2010 - 07:40 AM' timestamp='1271331617' post='2261225']
Actually, there is one, but it's a few days before this announcement.

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=181909&Extended=1
[/quote]
Ah yes. My bad, I only scanned for alliances sending tech to them, not new deals just starting.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1271312535' post='2261037']
Athens signed terms with IRON. If we supported Gre's course of action we would still be on the field. That said, what Gre is doing is no different than much of what NPO did (for example telling FAN or GATO they would have to fight to get peace and expecting those alliances to trust them). There IS a difference here in that Gre was on the defensive side in 2 wars in a row against IRON, whereas NPO committed its atrocities on the heels of offensive wars. Gre's behavior is more justifiable than NPO's was because of this, although still harsher than I would be inclined to pursue in this case. But in any case, it is the height of hypocrisy for GDA to criticize such behavior in a non ally when they made the bread and butter of their alliance hailing such behavior every time they heard Pacifican jackboots clicking by.



Ahahahahahahaha. Time to call the pound, no doubt.
[/quote]

Here it the issue Londo. Athens is pretty much considered by most as a lesser NPO. You excell at the bad things they did but, never manage to be good at much esle. What does this have to do with Gramlins? Well let me explain. You are the hegemony and in time you will be brought down. How would you like to offered as your only hope for peace unconditional surrender? You would not like it at all. If this precedent is allowed to stand you will have no room to complain. You can try and compair this to the past and then people will just pull out Athens history of atrocities. None of this will change the point that what Gramilins is doing is a direct threat to Athens and every alliance on Planet Bob.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 12:37 AM' timestamp='1271309851' post='2260998']
You mean like how GDA kept the NPO propped up for years by being allied to them when NPO was holding FAN hostage?

Yeah... cry me a river.
[/quote]


[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 12:46 AM' timestamp='1271310401' post='2261006']
Just because they didn't do it on their own doesn't erase their culpability.

And it doesn't make it any less funny to hear former hegemonists crying now that the shoe is on the other foot. "Oh lawdy lawdy, we haz seen the light!"


[/quote]

I have a few questions for you Londo

1. Do you still hold alliances responsible for things they did pre karma war? Is it not enough that most alliances that you deemed as NPO supporters just lose two wars to the alliances that were in Karma?

2. Do you think that alliances who did bad things to the community (in your opinion) should not try to do better just because they did things in the past you didn't like

3. Didn't alliances like Sparta, MHA, FOK, NPO have a ton to do with propping up NPO at one point or another? Why don't you hold them accountable now too?

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 06:46 AM' timestamp='1271310401' post='2261006']
Just because they didn't do it on their own doesn't erase their culpability.

And it doesn't make it any less funny to hear former hegemonists crying now that the shoe is on the other foot. "Oh lawdy lawdy, we haz seen the light!"


[/quote]

Pathetic.

You should tell us more about the Athens morality and respective high ground to make judgement calls on who commits attrocities. And you should do it while you're out raiding alliances.

GDA paid for their [b]passivity[/b] enabling NPO's actions and they paid it during Karma. You got away from a fair beatdown due to your [b]actions[/b] in December because Archon has your $@! covered. You are the hypocrite here. Not anyone else.

[janax]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 02:58 AM' timestamp='1271318286' post='2261119']
GDA should stop selling tech to all alliances who are not at war with GRE.
After all, any alliance not fighting us is condoning our actions.
[/quote]


True enough. Ask VE, RIA, CRAP and Silence to remove our surrender terms.

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='15 April 2010 - 02:11 PM' timestamp='1271337052' post='2261281']
Pathetic.

You should tell us more about the Athens morality and respective high ground to make judgement calls on who commits attrocities. And you should do it while you're out raiding alliances.

GDA paid for their [b]passivity[/b] enabling NPO's actions and they paid it during Karma. You got away from a fair beatdown due to your [b]actions[/b] in December because Archon has your $@! covered. You are the hypocrite here. Not anyone else.
[/quote]


So all you are saying is that GDA played the political game poorly and it hurt them. Athens has good allies and effectively escaped the fate you think they deserve, because of this you are now whining about their lack of morals or whatever.

Pathetic

In all seriousness, not everyone will get the karma they deserve(or that people think they deserve) that is a fact of life, but this is a prime opportunity for someone to show Gramlins that they disagree in more than a minor symbolic gesture. Knowing how most operate here though nothing will happen.

[D34th]

Athens, classy as always.

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='D34th' date='15 April 2010 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1271340655' post='2261315']
Athens, classy as always.
[/quote]


I like your sig quote “There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.”


Rather applicable to the current situation isn't it?

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 01:46 AM' timestamp='1271310401' post='2261006']
Just because they didn't do it on their own doesn't erase their culpability.

And it doesn't make it any less funny to hear former hegemonists crying now that the shoe is on the other foot. "Oh lawdy lawdy, we haz seen the light!"


[/quote]

You being an expert on culpability...and bad choices.

GDA's actions are to be commended. Alliances on both sides of the old Karma fence agree. Get with modern times.

[ratonbox]

Everybody has the right to ask for outrageous surrender terms so everybody has the right to suspend potential tech deals with other alliances. But, putting it out for everyone to see, it just a PR attempt. Probably worked with nations/people/alliances that support the IRON side of the war.
On the other side, it's good to see different kind of "sanctions" on Planet Bob. Well done GDA.

[D34th]

[quote name='commander thrawn' date='15 April 2010 - 12:15 PM' timestamp='1271340938' post='2261316']
I like your sig quote “There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.”


Rather applicable to the current situation isn't it?
[/quote]

In fact, it is.