GDA Imposing Tech Sanctions on Gramlins

[Marneus Calgar]

Thanks for the help.

[Enrage]

A tech embargo towards another alliance? Such a crazy idea that I would never do

Hardin my good pal, I cheer for you on your journey.

[Smacky]

[quote name='Batallion' date='14 April 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1271312598' post='2261038']
Billions in reparations from NPO, thousands of tech from IRON/TOP/Co., who are we kidding?
[/quote]
Weighing in inflation their reparation ammounts are very much in line with what they were accustomed to demanding. Besides, they deserve every bit of it and more. What would be true justice is eternally limiting them to 14 total nukes, taking control of their forums, EZIing their government, PZIing every member who enters peace mode, rewriting their charters, forcing them to sign a treaty before exiting terms, ect ect.

[Valerius]

Damn underdog complex ... I actually couldn't agree more. Good show GDA.

[Zangmonkey]

Best of luck to you.
It's a shame we'll miss out on all those late deliveries and missing batches.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 06:46 AM' timestamp='1271310401' post='2261006']
Just because they didn't do it on their own doesn't erase their culpability.

And it doesn't make it any less funny to hear former hegemonists crying now that the shoe is on the other foot. "Oh lawdy lawdy, we haz seen the light!"


[/quote]

Worked for half your allies about a year ago. Don't see a reason why it should'nt work now?

Edited April 15, 2010 by silentkiller

[Enrage]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='15 April 2010 - 01:59 AM' timestamp='1271314741' post='2261063']
Best of luck to you.
It's a shame we'll miss out on all those late deliveries and missing batches.
[/quote]
Well, late tech is better than no tech i suppose.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Enrage

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 01:22 AM' timestamp='1271312535' post='2261037']
Athens signed terms with IRON. If we supported Gre's course of action we would still be on the field. That said, what Gre is doing is no different than much of what NPO did (for example telling FAN or GATO they would have to fight to get peace and expecting those alliances to trust them). There IS a difference here in that Gre was on the defensive side in 2 wars in a row against IRON, whereas NPO committed its atrocities on the heels of offensive wars. [/quote]
Gre declared on IRON in both wars. In Karma, they violated the Lux treaty. In this war, they didn't even have a treaty obligation to attack IRON.

[quote]Gre's behavior is more justifiable than NPO's was because of this, although still harsher than I would be inclined to pursue in this case. But in any case, it is the height of hypocrisy for GDA to criticize such behavior in a non ally when they made the bread and butter of their alliance hailing such behavior every time they heard Pacifican jackboots clicking by.[/quote]
Also, just because NPO did worse doesn't mean nothing else is ever bad.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='15 April 2010 - 02:06 AM' timestamp='1271315177' post='2261069']
Also, just because NPO did worse doesn't mean nothing else is ever bad.
[/quote]
I get the feeling that if Athens is on the winning side of whatever war comes next "NPO did worse" will again be the justification for whatever terms they concoct.

It is a convenient crutch to attempt to justify a continuation of many (not all, but many) of the same policies, while attempting to maintain the image of moral authority.

Edited April 15, 2010 by bigwoody

[Clash]

I agree with President Hardin, since I wasn't there for any of all that "way back when" crap, either. I know that IRON says they don't do reps NOW. I also know I think it's a stupid and crap concept I won't ever support being pushed on anyone else, in every case example. Not just for the alliance I like or against an alliance I don't like. I'm not going to pick and choose, for myself, it applies across the board.

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='14 April 2010 - 11:37 PM' timestamp='1271309851' post='2260998']
You mean like how GDA kept the NPO propped up for years by being allied to them when NPO was holding FAN hostage?

Yeah... cry me a river. [/quote]
Here's the thing, again, just how I see it.

If you think what NPO did was wrong, then supporting what Gre is doing to IRON sort of makes you a hypocrite. And since you're sniveling about GDA's condemnation of it, then YES, you do support the actions of Gre. Or else you'd not have posted those words on it. Condemning those who object to such a practice automatically gives your approval for it. See how that works?

Either object to this practice that NPO apparently might have done (I wasn't there, after all) AND what Gre's doing now - or support it in both cases. Picking and choosing shows your own bias against NPO, and by extension in this thread, both GDA and IRON. If done by them = bad (and not even by all of them in your quote, just by NPO), if done against them = good. I think by definition that also makes you a hypocrite on the subject.

[Starfox101]

You had a good run Gramlins, but it's all over now. GDA has brought the hammer down.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Enrage' date='15 April 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1271315118' post='2261068']
Well, late tech is better than no tech i suppose.
[/quote]

Not when punctual tech is available for professional sellers.

[Starfox101]

[quote name='Batallion' date='15 April 2010 - 07:18 AM' timestamp='1271312314' post='2261033']
Those former hegemonists have already received beatings thousands of times more worse than the beatings they once dealt.
[/quote]
This is even better than the triple break off flank attack.

You my friend, are brilliant.

[Jgoods45]

Hurr Durr, I'm going to gain some good PR by publicly announcing that my alliance will not tech deal with an alliance we hardly ever dealt with in the first place.

I can't believe how seriously some people take some issues to heart. It's really pathetic. My own opinion, of course.




** Should be noted I really don't have a clue how often these two alliances entered into tech deals **

Edited April 15, 2010 by Jgoods45

[Banksy]

Meh- i'm not too sure GDA were a huge Gremlin supplier anyway. I'm fine with symbolism, but this action doesn't have enough substance for my liking.

o/ GDA

[Scorbolt]

[quote name='President Hardin' date='14 April 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1271308417' post='2260976']
While we remain [b]neutral[/b] towards both of these alliances we cannot ignore the extreme terms the Gramlins' have put forth in their efforts to come out ahead in this situation.
[/quote]

This doesn't sound like a neutral policy. You've lost me.

[Smacky]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='15 April 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1271315489' post='2261077']
I get the feeling that if Athens is on the winning side of whatever war comes next "NPO did worse" will again be the justification for whatever terms they concoct.

It is a convenient crutch to attempt to justify a continuation of many (not all, but many) of the same policies, while attempting to maintain the image of moral authority.
[/quote]
Yeah. You'd have a point if random alliances who have never bothered a fly were being singled out. The punishment fits the crime, there's no limit to what can be done to NPO and their former cronies since it's all been done by them before. Try that argument again when CnG and SF raid GPA then make them pay reps for the pleasure.

You've already established the rules [b]you[/b] play by so don't whine when others play [b]your[/b] game with you. IRON should be able to appreciate someone demanding things they don't want to give, right?

[commander thrawn]

If you don't support Grämlins and actually want anyone to believe you care then do something that will have an impact. Attack them, gain a senate and sanction these "war criminals" but the whole posturing by calling off non-existent tech deals is just laughable.

If you support Grämlins in their sovereign right to act as they please then lay off of GDA they have every right to make themselves look foolish here or in any other venue they please.

Edited April 15, 2010 by commander thrawn

[Kowalski]

How much tech was GDA selling to Grämlins before this decision?

[Arcades057]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='15 April 2010 - 02:22 AM' timestamp='1271312535' post='2261037']
Athens signed terms with IRON. If we supported Gre's course of action we would still be on the field. That said, what Gre is doing is no different than much of what NPO did (for example telling FAN or GATO they would have to fight to get peace and expecting those alliances to trust them). There IS a difference here in that Gre was on the defensive side in 2 wars in a row against IRON, whereas NPO committed its atrocities on the heels of offensive wars. Gre's behavior is more justifiable than NPO's was because of this, although still harsher than I would be inclined to pursue in this case. But in any case, it is the height of hypocrisy for GDA to criticize such behavior in a non ally when they made the bread and butter of their alliance hailing such behavior every time they heard Pacifican jackboots clicking by.

[/quote]

Come now, you and I both know that Athens can't stand much more bad PR than it already has; also you tend to play it safe, don't you, in terms of wars? Staying on the field, as you say, in a situation such as this would mean that you suffer some as your upper tier are more on-par with IRON's than Gramlins upper tier are on par with them. You would be fighting a 2 on 2 war, only slightly outnumbering your enemy in terms of strength. Now, had you a thought that the world and your allies might have supported a bid to remain at war with an old friend of the NPO's I'm quite sure you would have taken that chance and ran with it.

To the second point, if I remember correctly, and do forgive me if I'm wrong, but Gramlins actually attacked IRON, not the other way around. So, that refutes one part of your argument; and yes, even if Gramlins were declaring an aggressive war in defense of someone else, that is still by definition an aggressive war, not a defensive war.

As to the FAN and GATO part, I do believe that we in Pacifica have learned from errors in our past which 95% of Pacificans had not a thing in the world to do with in terms of ordering the attacks or planning them. The Emperor who made those decisions has stepped down; most of the Imperial Officers of that period have retired and are now annoying the young folks with their old timey stories about the price of a movie, a taxi ride into town, and popcorn. Belaboring this point again and again about how we asked for hefty reparations after wars, while having asked of us a greater sum of reparations than any other in history, is truly getting quite old, but do keep it up if you must.

[Arcades057]

[quote name='Smacky' date='15 April 2010 - 03:47 AM' timestamp='1271317644' post='2261109']
You've already established the rules [b]you[/b] play by so don't whine when others play [b]your[/b] game with you. IRON should be able to appreciate someone demanding things they don't want to give, right?
[/quote]

Then play our game, please.

Whereas we have long ago mastered that particular game you are still only now struggling to catch up. We ask merely for honesty in your intent. Don't create some silly "karma" themed group and promise a better future while perpetrating the same sorts of deeds which you blame on us.

[Zangmonkey]

GDA should stop selling tech to all alliances who are not at war with GRE.
After all, any alliance not fighting us is condoning our actions.

[commander thrawn]

Doesn't Karma mean you get what you dish out? If so Karma seems wholly accurate for the "New Hegemony."

[NewPoseidon]

A good move. If a Gramlins member offered me a really cheap donation deal and/or tech deal I'd definitely decline atm.

[Smacky]

[quote name='Arcades057' date='15 April 2010 - 12:57 AM' timestamp='1271318239' post='2261118']
Then play our game, please.

Whereas we have long ago mastered that particular game you are still only now struggling to catch up. We ask merely for honesty in your intent. Don't create some silly "karma" themed group and promise a better future while [b]perpetrating the same sorts of deeds [on you] which you blame on us.[/b]
[/quote]
Uh, that's the definition of karma.

Besides, just because it's not a better world for you doesn't mean it's not a better world for everyone else.