Pacific Star 2 OOC

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

[quote name='Lynneth' date='22 April 2010 - 12:07 AM' timestamp='1271912845' post='2270310']
Mentlegen.

As per decree and shens by zee GM (and agreement with IAT), Mudd had 10 days to post or "loldongs". Treat his nation as being in Anarchy, but the soldiers still wanting to defend their homeland, being a problem of sorts. Not as big as when they're organised, but there.
I expect no less than shenanigans by all of you.
[/quote]
My invading army consists of 4 guys and an old jeep. There shall be a great many shenanigans.

[Manetheren]

I'll be back next Tuesday. I currently am on an exceptionally crazy ER rotation that keeps me away from home (where I can log onto the forums) most of the day.

I'd APPRECIATE, if you guys could hold yer horsies until then and I do apologize for taking so long to get back to ya'll.

So. Wait till Tuesday and then we can mkay?

Lovesies

[Sarah Tintagyl]

^ I'd really like to say listen to this...I know you guys won't...but honestly...Mudd should be allowed something here. We don't know what and how his Real Life is like, it could be more hectic now then ever. I just feel like everyone should get that chance. Not going to argue further...just putting out my two cents.

[Karl Martin]

I do not expect people to listen, but I do support Mudd in that there should be firmer resistence RPs beore Mudd can get back.

[king of cochin]

I think Mudd should be given this last chance to defend himself ICly. As one of the nations attacking in Hawaii, I shall not recognize Tahoe as fallen until Wednesday, by which time, I believe Mudd should be posting.

[Subtleknifewielder]

I'm all for whatever the community/GM decides. But I agree with Cochin. He has one more week, imo, if the anarchy is overturned.

[Bacharth]

I'm backing Lyn's ruling, Mudd, you could have posted in OOC that you'd be gone. But, if Lyn decides to give you another shot, I'd love to fight with ya.

[Lynneth]

Blah.
Tuesday, Mudd. before 23:59:59.

[Captain Enema]

Good call Lynneth, I'll fix my last post in a bit.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Centurius]

Guys why not postpone the entire war until Wednesday? Is there really a need to push the issue?

[Michael McBride]

I'm not sure why everyone started saying Mudd was in Anarchy. That only happens after you haven't posted for 25 days, not seven. Christ, people. The first stage of auto-lose does not mean you are in anarchy and your whole nation falls.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' date='22 April 2010 - 05:29 PM' timestamp='1271953733' post='2270780']
I'm not sure why everyone started saying Mudd was in Anarchy. That only happens after you haven't posted for 25 days, not seven. Christ, people. The first stage of auto-lose does not mean you are in anarchy and your whole nation falls.
[/quote]

That was lynneth's ruling. If the war went ignored for 10 days, then tahoe would lose the war, and we would treat it as if his centralized government collapsed. Since it seems tahoe had a valid reason for being tied up OOC, that was all reversed.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Mael, as someone who is both an LA resident, and thinks about military stuff on a regular basis, I feel I must point out a few problems in your post.
[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='23 April 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1272070461' post='2272520']
In further preparations the Tasmanians decided that if the Tahoans wanted their city back it'd have to be taken from their cold-dead hands. They began to prepare the city for an asymmetrical battle, using everything from mines to remote attack systems relying on motion detectors. The engineers were instructed to be "as innovative as possible".

The following bridge systems in Los Angeles County were also rigged with explosives for a possible "scorched earth" retreat.

Vincent Thomas Bridge Los Angeles 1964 Span: 6,500 Ft.
Gerald Desmond Bridge Long Beach 1968 Span: 5,134 Ft.
Commodore Schuyler F. Heim Lift Bridge Long Beach 1946 Span: 3,976 Ft.[/quote]
Blowing up those bridges doesn't stop a thing beside a chunk (Or maybe even most) of the import and export shipping through Los Angeles(Both of which Mudd probably isn't doing much of at the time). Added to that, they are all within a few miles of each other. Them being gone acts as an inconvenience, but by no means will it aid a retreat (You cut of a mostly man made island that acts as a shipping port, not the whole city), let alone strike a serious blow a nation that isn't really using its harbors due to the whole "At war with the World" thing.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='23 April 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1272070461' post='2272520']
The City's extensive aqueduct and sewage systems were also rigged.[/quote]
That would take a long time to rig. The Aqueducts alone are highly segmented, with many areas having their own water storage areas that would have to be individually destroyed, as well as the extensive parts that go underground, to actually cut off water flow (Frankly, in a pinch, if you were desperate, I mean crazy desperate, you could get water from the LA river and filter the hell out of it, if you were so inclined.)
Not saying it's not possible, but it would be a pain. You'd be better off poisoning it, or having your engineers route the sewage into it, as that would be much, much cheaper.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='23 April 2010 - 05:54 PM' timestamp='1272070461' post='2272520']
So were the major import/export terminals in the bay area.[/quote]
The aforementioned bridges would be part of that, and once again, I highly doubt Tahoe is getting many imports through the little, close off harbor you're focusing so much on.

So all in all, you have some problems with your expectations for your big plan, but none of it is impossible. It shows some poor understanding of the LA infrastructure, which I guess is to expect, because I'm willing to bet that I couldn't do better around your home city.

Also, this all assumes that Mudd RPs LA exactly as it appears in reality, which, if memory serves, he does not.

As another side note, you forgot the Henry Ford Bridge that runs alongside the Commodore Schuyler F. Heim bridge.

EDIT: Another quick note, this time about your initial invasion:
To land large vehicles on the beaches near LA, you would either have to land, and drag them up a cliff, or drive them through boat slips wherever you found them, or drive them up through people's homes. There is no gentle sloping beach to mainland path around here, it's either sheer walls, sparsely laid boat slips, or right up through residential land, and then through the Steep hills that border that residential land.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Il Terra Di Agea

[JEDCJT]

[quote]Thousands of our citizens have called and reported the same thing: they were kidnapped and then brought to a location where they were tortured. Many of them also said that loved ones and friends are nowhere to be found and are either still kidnapped or dead. We are sending you thousands of tapes of aforementioned phone recordings and also files of photos showing obvious torture wounds on our citizens. This grotesque abuse is all too real sadly.[/quote]

I must admit I'm feeling a bit iffy about Californian's post above, especially the way that his nation seems to know everything that happens in my nation. First of all, many of NR citizens were abducted in the middle of the night, snatched right out of their beds, and as such would not be able to grab their phones and communicate with anyone when they're in the middle of being dragged out of their houses by FBIS soldiers! Ad even if some citizens were not arrested, how would they be able to communicate with the rest of the world with a communication blackout in place? And escaping across the border is out of the question. And so is air, sea, and land travel due to all the security measures in place.

Secondly, as all of this was being done secretly, NR citizens were taken to FBIS interrogration centers in secret locations. Do you think the FBIS centers has a pay phone where citizens would blub down the phone about how the FBIS is beating them? Heck no! They would be taken down to top-secret rooms where there would be virtually no way for his citizens to communicate to the outside world. They are completely trapped, completely at the mercy of the FBIS. Mind you, I RP a virtual police state, with a massive secret police organization led by a paranoid, homicidal maniac that is J. Edgar Hoover who would take no chances.

Besides, do you think the FBIS, after torturing their victims, would let them go back home, for them to tell the entire world about what had happened? I should think not (but then, I did release them recently, which will be explained in a bit). Indeed, many of them were shot not too long afterwards. But then, for the sake of being fair, I should reckon that [i]some[/i] communication would go through to the NR (after all, no system is completely perfect), but then they would not be able to form a complete picture for NR's government to make such conclusions without sounding silly. That and there are rumors. But then, they are rumors, and do they hold the complete truth? Perhaps, perhaps not. But then it depends on one's interpretation.

And how would the NR get photos of the citizens' "obvious torture wounds"? The only way you would do that is if your citizens managed to escape to the NR (which they would not be able to), or if your spies infilitrated New England (which would be very difficult to undertake, given all the security measures and procedures in place - and which Californian did not RP, to my knowledge). Or perhaps journalists would be an option, but then they would be denied access to New England - and even if they did, do you think the FBIS would allow them access into their centers, where the NR citizens are being held, for them [the journalists] to photograph the citizens' wounds? I think not. That, and it is very easy to use Photoshop.

Lastly, regarding the release of the NR citizens, along with these from Louisiana and HAE, the FBIS let them back to society, but with certain stipulations. NR citizens would not be able to leave New England (if they did, they would be simply rearrested), and the monitoring device the FBIS implanted in their bodies would enable the FBIS to keep an eye on them - and they certainly cannot, cannot ever, ever, ever, ever, tell anyone (not even to themselves!) about what happened to them while in FBIS custody. Their phones, place, etc. would be bugged and any attempt by them to utter even one word would result in them being cut off and arrested not long afterwards. And it would be easy for the government to justify such actions on the security measures in place (after all, New England is at war!). Plausible deniability, anyone?

Please do pardon me for this rambling, whiny, long-winded post. But I had to point out something.

Edited April 25, 2010 by JEDCJT

[Yawoo]

To be fair, JED, you're RPing citizens of OUR countries, which is against the rules, so I wouldn't be too gung-ho about pointing out inaccuracies

Edit: and I never RP'd Louisianan citizens living in your country, so I dunno who you're abducting, but they aren't my guys

Edited April 25, 2010 by Yawoo

[Bacharth]

[quote name='Il Terra Di Agea' date='23 April 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1272075956' post='2272637']
Mael, as someone who is both an LA resident, and thinks about military stuff on a regular basis, I feel I must point out a few problems in your post.

Blowing up those bridges doesn't stop a thing beside a chunk (Or maybe even most) of the import and export shipping through Los Angeles(Both of which Mudd probably isn't doing much of at the time). Added to that, they are all within a few miles of each other. Them being gone acts as an inconvenience, but by no means will it aid a retreat (You cut of a mostly man made island that acts as a shipping port, not the whole city), let alone strike a serious blow a nation that isn't really using its harbors due to the whole "At war with the World" thing.


That would take a long time to rig. The Aqueducts alone are highly segmented, with many areas having their own water storage areas that would have to be individually destroyed, as well as the extensive parts that go underground, to actually cut off water flow (Frankly, in a pinch, if you were desperate, I mean crazy desperate, you could get water from the LA river and filter the hell out of it, if you were so inclined.)
Not saying it's not possible, but it would be a pain. You'd be better off poisoning it, or having your engineers route the sewage into it, as that would be much, much cheaper.


The aforementioned bridges would be part of that, and once again, I highly doubt Tahoe is getting many imports through the little, close off harbor you're focusing so much on.

So all in all, you have some problems with your expectations for your big plan, but none of it is impossible. It shows some poor understanding of the LA infrastructure, which I guess is to expect, because I'm willing to bet that I couldn't do better around your home city.

Also, this all assumes that Mudd RPs LA exactly as it appears in reality, which, if memory serves, he does not.

As another side note, you forgot the Henry Ford Bridge that runs alongside the Commodore Schuyler F. Heim bridge.

EDIT: Another quick note, this time about your initial invasion:
To land large vehicles on the beaches near LA, you would either have to land, and drag them up a cliff, or drive them through boat slips wherever you found them, or drive them up through people's homes. There is no gentle sloping beach to mainland path around here, it's either sheer walls, sparsely laid boat slips, or right up through residential land, and then through the Steep hills that border that residential land.
[/quote]

When I was in LA, I do remember one sloping pathway from the beach to the land, but it was in some residential area.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Yawoo' date='25 April 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1272217356' post='2274485']
To be fair, JED, you're RPing citizens of OUR countries, which is against the rules, so I wouldn't be too gung-ho about pointing out inaccuracies

Edit: and I never RP'd Louisianan citizens living in your country, so I dunno who you're abducting, but they aren't my guys
[/quote]

Technically, if they are living in his country, they are his citizens and he is free to do as they choose with them. He can say their descent is from anywhere he wants, really.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

[quote name='Vince Sixx' date='25 April 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1272223796' post='2274630']
When I was in LA, I do remember one sloping pathway from the beach to the land, but it was in some residential area.
[/quote]
Yah, in Hermosa Beach and parts of Manhattan there are some more gentle slopes, but they all back into some fairly densely packed residential area, so unless you want to demolish hundreds, probably even thousands, of homes, you can't land armor there.

ALSO, I forgot something in my earlier post: I would find it highly likely that even beyond whatever defenses Mudd has on his shores, it's also pretty likely that he would but the same defenses on the Channel Islands, making two lines of fire on the boats, and making it very difficult to handle both rows of defense at once. That's at least what the RL US did during WWII as a precaution, and there are plenty of old shore defenses around here (IE, the cliff-iest part of the southern California coast) to prove it. But once again, I don't know exactly how Mudd RPed it, so I won't say that that's definite

[Uberstein]

Manhattan Beach has some gentle slopes, but those are smaller roads, and there are very few places where you can get directly from the beach to the roads, because there is maybe...10 feet or 20 feet of vertical concrete between the beach and the city itself, as in the city is raised, it isn't a wall that you can just blow up.

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' date='25 April 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1272224485' post='2274651']
Technically, if they are living in his country, they are his citizens and he is free to do as they choose with them. He can say their descent is from anywhere he wants, really.
[/quote]
If he wants to torture his own citizens that's fine by me, I'm simply saying that I've never RP'd any of my citizens in his country therefore I won't recognize an RP of my citizens being in his country.

[Manetheren]

I also have an extensive SOSUS network covering most of the pacific ocean (eastern pacific developed by myself, the rest from the Ferrous Pacific pact that has since been integrated into my network, so I can see invasions coming).

As for actually landing on the Tahoan Coast, good beaches are, and have been, sighted for artillery and there are hundreds of anti ship missile batteries up and down the coast. Landings would be contested by sea, air and land, andsince the only people who have landed so far are Subtle, Mael and Vince, three nations that I have a vastly superior military to in terms of technology, I find it highly unlikely their landings were successful without major casualties.

Hawaii is a different story since its defenses are not as advanced or developed as the mainland and its garrison is much smaller. Likewise, iamthey and cochin both have tech that is almost as advanced as mine, which combined with their superior numbers makes it a much more even battle (greatly weighted towards their victory)

[Zoot Zoot]

Mudd, what of Alaska in the Anchorage Bay?
Ive RP'd what i thought would be reasonable losses for the attack because i couldnt find anywhere, anything about your alaskan defences, and that post your linked was in reference to your land at the time of the post, not recently annexed land.
4400 losses
7 ships
1700 sailors
47 planes
200+ tanks i beleive i wrote down somewhere.

But in keeping with Lyns ruling, the taking of anchorage was over a 9 day period, with posts every 3 days and the city fell.

Can you shed any light on Alaska for me please wether it be a Pm or a link or something.

[Fizzydog]

What were your anti air defenses in Cuba? My transport planes flew over that area until they were called back, in a period of about 2 hours they were around the Bay of Pigs.

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='Yawoo' date='25 April 2010 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1272233291' post='2274884']
If he wants to torture his own citizens that's fine by me, I'm simply saying that I've never RP'd any of my citizens in his country therefore I won't recognize an RP of my citizens being in his country.
[/quote]

He never said they are your citizens. He said they were citizens of Louisianan descent. You cannot stop him from saying that, he can say whatever he wants about his citizens.

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' date='25 April 2010 - 06:03 PM' timestamp='1272236566' post='2274968']
He never said they are your citizens. He said they were citizens of Louisianan descent. You cannot stop him from saying that, he can say whatever he wants about his citizens.
[/quote]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=60276&st=300

Under classified he said they were our citizens. As I never RP'd citizens in his country, it would be impossible to arrest Louisianan citizens there.