bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='NeCoHo' date='11 April 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1271039835' post='2256916'] Did TORN ever catch any spies in its midst? [/quote] Yes, especially pre-Karma. Some in comic fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeCoHo Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 If these spies came from a specific institution, did you ever act on the institution in an aggressive manner? If you could have removed some people prior to the Karma War, would you have? Would you be willing to say who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieG Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='NeCoHo' date='12 April 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1271039835' post='2256916'] Did TORN ever catch any spies in its midst? [/quote] I originally came to TORN as a spy. Turns out I decided to just make it my home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='NeCoHo' date='11 April 2010 - 09:42 PM' timestamp='1271040131' post='2256923'] If these spies came from a specific institution, did you ever act on the institution in an aggressive manner?[/quote] No. [quote]If you could have removed some people prior to the Karma War, would you have? Would you be willing to say who? [/quote] Difficult question. If I could see the future, I am sure I would have purged many people...as would any alliance leader with such powers. I try to avoid putting too much concern with hindsight, as it isn't very helpful for learning. I would rather recognize my mistakes and signs of trouble to do better in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Your present opinion on terms if you were to win a war.... what would you say to someone, to try to convince them that it is a genuine feeling, and not a feeling that exists solely because of the shift in political and military power within the world? What were your personal thoughts on the Athens CB against TPF? The Athens raid on NI!? The subsequent handling of said raid by Athens in making amends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' date='11 April 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1271040421' post='2256934'] Your present opinion on terms if you were to win a war.... what would you say to someone, to try to convince them that it is a genuine feeling, and not a feeling that exists solely because of the shift in political and military power within the world?[/quote] Ask the people I talked with before we entered this war. If people are seeking harsh terms, we are likely to walk. I don't try and convince people. People who know me know it is genuine from the way I talk about it. [quote]What were your personal thoughts on the Athens CB against TPF?[/quote] It wasn't the weakest CB of all time, but it was up there. Hell, I don't like TPF, but had no problem fighting alongside them if it meant fighting against !@#$%^&* CBs like that. [quote]The Athens raid on NI!?[/quote] Power corrupts. Pretty damn lame. [quote]The subsequent handling of said raid by Athens in making amends? [/quote] It felt like you were dragged kicking and screaming the whole way. I give no respect to the way you made amends because you did not follow your word. For example, in the Ni! aftermath, Londo made a rather long post about how Athens was going to set an example for not taking the lame out in debates of "do something about it", and how harsh punishment awaited Athens members who did so. This was met with much fanfare by C&G and some others. Yet Athens remains one of the worst offenders when it comes to that sort of dialogue, and not once has punitive action been taken against Athens posters who said these things, even after they were pointed out repeatedly. In short, you made as little amends as you felt you could get away with, and didn't really change. That's my honest opinion, since you asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natan Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='NeCoHo' date='11 April 2010 - 10:42 PM' timestamp='1271040131' post='2256923'] If these spies came from a specific institution, did you ever act on the institution in an aggressive manner? [/quote] One of them got six nukes from yours truly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='bigwoody' date='11 April 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1271040910' post='2256943'] Ask the people I talked with before we entered this war. If people are seeking harsh terms, we are likely to walk. I don't try and convince people. People who know me know it is genuine from the way I talk about it. It wasn't the weakest CB of all time, but it was up there. Hell, I don't like TPF, but had no problem fighting alongside them if it meant fighting against !@#$%^&* CBs like that. Power corrupts. Pretty damn lame. It felt like you were dragged kicking and screaming the whole way. I give no respect to the way you made amends because you did not follow your word. For example, in the Ni! aftermath, Londo made a rather long post about how Athens was going to set an example for not taking the lame out in debates of "do something about it", and how harsh punishment awaited Athens members who did so. This was met with much fanfare by C&G and some others. Yet Athens remains one of the worst offenders when it comes to that sort of dialogue, and not once has punitive action been taken against Athens posters who said these things, even after they were pointed out repeatedly. In short, you made as little amends as you felt you could get away with, and didn't really change. That's my honest opinion, since you asked. [/quote] I appreciate your honesty. So now, explain, if you will, the evolutionary process of your thinking. You once, unwaveringly declared support for GGA and Valhalla in their DoW on Hyperion (which is almost universally recognized as the worst CB in CN history, only in competition with NPO on GGA), to calling the Athens CB a %^&* CB. This truly is not mean to suck you into anything, I really want to know how the thought process on what makes a good CB changed. You said power corrupts. Were you guilty , at the time, of being corrupted by the old Hegemony's power? Edited April 12, 2010 by Rush Sykes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' date='11 April 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1271041237' post='2256949'] I appreciate your honesty. So now, explain, if you will, the evolutionary process of your thinking. You once, unwaveringly declared support for GGA and Valhalla in their DoW on Hyperion (which is almost universally recognized as the worst CB in CN history, only in competition with NPO on GGA), to calling the Athens CB a %^&* CB. This truly is not mean to suck you into anything, I really want to know how the thought process on what makes a good CB changed. You said power corrupts. Were you guilty , at the time, of being corrupted by the old Hegemony's power? [/quote] Yes, the Hyperion thing should have been handled more diplomatically. The evolution has been from an alliance that wanted a whole lot of war, to an alliance that took a more defensive stance, even before the tables turned on us. We are not without mistakes in our past, but we do earnestly learn from them. We started out with a bit of an Unjust Path mentality, then changed over time. I would find the evolution Athens took, from decrying such CBs to using them, far more of an example of corruption by power. Athens now treats CBs as we did around the time of WotC, easily. Whether or not you will also evolve, I cannot say. I do not know personally the makeup of Athens, only its actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 What are your thoughts on IAA? What are TORN's thoughts on IAA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Dochartaigh' date='11 April 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1271041659' post='2256962'] What are your thoughts on IAA? What are TORN's thoughts on IAA? [/quote] We had a good fight, and you were classy on the battlefield. My opinion is conflicted. I am disappointed that IAA decided to go after reps, but they are far from the worst offender as the reparations asked of us were not crippling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='bigwoody' date='11 April 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1271041552' post='2256957'] Yes, the Hyperion thing should have been handled more diplomatically. The evolution has been from an alliance that wanted a whole lot of war, to an alliance that took a more defensive stance, even before the tables turned on us. We are not without mistakes in our past, but we do earnestly learn from them. We started out with a bit of an Unjust Path mentality, then changed over time. I would find the evolution Athens took, from decrying such CBs to using them, far more of an example of corruption by power. Athens now treats CBs as we did around the time of WotC, easily. Whether or not you will also evolve, I cannot say. I do not know personally the makeup of Athens, only its actions. [/quote] I appreciate your candor. It actually is refreshing for someone who was in a position of power in that era to actually address a specific wrongdoing. It seems too many want their history swept under the rug, and discussion of such, is taboo. Now, all we have is time. Funny thing about time, it keeps going in the giant circle. Most likely, some day, you will get the chance to prove that you have changed. Let us hope that thoughts and opinions do not stay on the carousel of time, lest, when the time comes for you to lay down your proof, your thinking will again have changed. Unfortunately, I am inherently skeptical of anyone from that era who has, "changed." So some day, one of us will have an "I told you so." Can't wait to see who. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Rush Sykes' date='11 April 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1271042066' post='2256974'] I appreciate your candor. It actually is refreshing for someone who was in a position of power in that era to actually address a specific wrongdoing. It seems too many want their history swept under the rug, and discussion of such, is taboo. Now, all we have is time. Funny thing about time, it keeps going in the giant circle. Most likely, some day, you will get the chance to prove that you have changed. Let us hope that thoughts and opinions do not stay on the carousel of time, lest, when the time comes for you to lay down your proof, your thinking will again have changed. Unfortunately, I am inherently skeptical of anyone from that era who has, "changed." So some day, one of us will have an "I told you so." Can't wait to see who. Carry on. [/quote] Well you should be skeptical. I have seen many who claim they have changed from an event, and in fact were just playing possum waiting for their turn at having the upper hand. It is the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47don Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Where does the TORN CB against C&G rank in your list of all time weak CB's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='bigwoody' date='11 April 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1271041849' post='2256965'] We had a good fight, and you were classy on the battlefield. My opinion is conflicted. I am disappointed that IAA decided to go after reps, but they are far from the worst offender as the reparations asked of us were not crippling. [/quote] Do you see TORN attempting to get to know IAA better in the future or would you rather keep your distance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandwich Controversy Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 (edited) The SuperGrievances hegemony: would you say it exists? If so, is it in fact worse than the old Pacifican hegemony? Do you see it lasting? Edited April 12, 2010 by Sandwich Controversy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 (edited) [quote name='ak47don' date='11 April 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1271042209' post='2256979'] Where does the TORN CB against C&G rank in your list of all time weak CB's? [/quote] Frankly I don't find pre-emptive attacks to be appalling when it involves alliances that are in the war anyways. Which, if you're being honest with yourselves, you were. The twisting the play the victim card was certainly effective, and it let Denial get his rocks off. That said, anyone who saw the outcome can agree it was a bad tactical move, yes. But reprehensible, no. I'd rank it as one of the better CBs out there, even. Edited April 12, 2010 by bigwoody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' date='11 April 2010 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1271042368' post='2256989'] The SuperGrievances hegemony: would you say it exists?[/quote] Yes. [quote]If so, is it in fact worse than the old Pacifican hegemony?[/quote] No, but it isn't that much better either. [quote]Do you see it lasting? [/quote] Not very long. There will be a split somewhere, as there always is, the question is where. The next great war will have very different sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Dochartaigh' date='11 April 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1271042249' post='2256982'] Do you see TORN attempting to get to know IAA better in the future or would you rather keep your distance? [/quote] We don't see IAA as an enemy, if thats what you mean. We were both just fulfilling our treaty duties, despite my disappointment with the choice for reparations. Our door is always open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote]Not very long. There will be a split somewhere, as there always is, the question is where. The next great war will have very different sides.[/quote] Do you believe that our "side" will remain mostly in-tact or fracture as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='The AUT' date='11 April 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1271043170' post='2257010'] Do you believe that our "side" will remain mostly in-tact or fracture as well? [/quote] History says it too will fracture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='SpectreTehDestroyer' date='11 April 2010 - 08:35 PM' timestamp='1271032507' post='2256754'] Will TORN be considering a treaty with Pacifica when they come out of terms? Has the thought crossed your mind? Thanks in advance! [/quote] [quote name='bigwoody' date='11 April 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1271032559' post='2256756'] No. [/quote] I am pleased to find that bigwoody and I agree on something. Until TORN takes concrete steps to address our issues, we will happily be in agreement. With bigwoody at the helm, I don't expect any changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='Cortath' date='11 April 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1271044379' post='2257029'] I am pleased to find that bigwoody and I agree on something. Until TORN takes concrete steps to address our issues, we will happily be in agreement. With bigwoody at the helm, I don't expect any changes. [/quote] That settles that then, doesn't it. We don't have to be enemies, even if we won't be treatied allies, but it seems you relish it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 [quote name='bigwoody' date='11 April 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1271044528' post='2257033'] That settles that then, doesn't it. We don't have to be enemies, even if we won't be treatied allies, but it seems you relish it. [/quote] I just relish you looking like a fool, bigwoody. Really, I have nothing against TORN, bigwoody, but my alliance has a quite a bit of beef with you. Until your alliance chooses to address these issues, as my alliance has attempted to address the myriad of issues we've had in our past, I do not expect that our alliances will have good relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Why are you still doing this to yourself? No, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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