Joint New Polar Order/Ragnarok Announcement

[Coursca]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' date='01 April 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1270140165' post='2243909']
Then I implore you, do so. You're off to a resoundingly successful start.
[/quote]

Yes, we are. Thank you for noticing.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='William Blake' date='01 April 2010 - 04:51 PM' timestamp='1270140674' post='2243923']
You are being paranoid because we have a lot of work to do in the wake of this war and creating tension (real or imagined) between your alliance are ours is not on the To-do list.
[/quote]
Just because it isn't on your to do list doesn't mean it isn't on ours. You guys can come here and say what what ever you want mending relations with RoK but I am sure the majority of us in both \m/ and NpO would be quite happy if the other ceased to exist.

A Q&A on our forums probably would have given RoK a better understanding of how our \m/embers feel about NpO.

Here is a quick insight, twice now a allied alliance of \m/ declared neutrality between \m/ and NpO when NpO came to stomp on us, only one of them is re-treatied to NpO.

o/ NPO you know I love you, please don't pull a RoK.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Merrie Melodies

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='D34th' date='01 April 2010 - 04:55 PM' timestamp='1270140937' post='2243934']
“A man can fail many times, but he isn't a failure until he begins to blame somebody else.”
[/quote]
If a man fails many times you would be insane to go into a business venture with him, no?

[Chief Savage Man]

I'm watching closely.

[D34th]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='01 April 2010 - 02:57 PM' timestamp='1270141008' post='2243935']
I do not hate Polaris, I am unhappy with past decisions and have not yet been given a reason to begin rebuilding the trust that was lost.
[/quote]

Well you are an exception in this thread, and while I understand you being unhappy with past decisions the best way to amend it(if you/your members want to) isn't insulting polaris in threads that have nothing to do with NSO, as already said by Polaris Gov in this same thread, we are open to discuss and talk with you guys, but if NSO expect us to blame only ourselves for what happened you will be losing your time. We recognize our mistakes in this war(and Peace out with GOD/VE/etc wan't one of them at least in my opinion) but you need to start to recognize yours.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='01 April 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1270141193' post='2243941']
If a man fails many times you would be insane to go into a business venture with him, no?
[/quote]

That's why I don't understand people being allied with \m/, we in Polaris have our quota of failures of course(great part of them in the last war I recognize) but we have our sucesses too, I can't say the same about your alliance, have \m/ ever succeed?

Edited April 1, 2010 by D34th

[Ivan Moldavi]

Man, this is some good stuff in here.

I am just glad to be retired and in LUE government now.

Regarding the topic at hand, in the few brief conversations that were held between ROK and NSO it was more or less determined, as far as I could tell at the time, that the general animosity between our alliances stemmed from disagreements with allies (sometimes allies or allies) and nothing directly involving the two alliances. ROK, in general, seems like an alliance that stands by its word and supports its allies, like the NSO.

Congratulations to both parties on renewing a long standing friendship.

I find it somewhat unfortunate that Polar and NSO are fighting within this thread. I was just recently commenting on how I didn't think it was right for some in Polar to take offense at NSO signing with Invicta and feel the same in regards to NSO potentially taking offense at Polar signing with ROK. It is a sovereign right allotted to each alliance as to whom they align themselves with. Getting pissy about it is stupid.

That being said, anyone that posts something ignorant such as NSO doing Polar wrong in regards to this last war is either blind or a complete moron. While I maintain the same position in both alliances I know first hand that a communication breakdown within the Polar government at the highest level led directly to most of the calamity the Cyberverse has seen over the last month. Polar, and in this instance I mean Grub, failed to inform their ally that they were leaving a war that they entered in their defense. Polar failed to inform other parties that it [i]knew[/i] had plans to launch a pre-emptive attack on another front (in a misguided attempt to somehow alleviate Polar - no idea - just stating the argument) when a simple message like "hey, we are leaving" would have prevented the assault. Polar failed to work with its ally in NSO in regards to getting the peace that Polar promised them when it first abandoned them on the field and instead spent time discussing with the enemy that NSO was being unreasonable instead of putting pressure on that enemy to act in good faith.

Yes, Grub has given a half assed apology that he followed up with a diatribe of the evils of the NSO. Big !@#$@#$ deal. Reminded me of Tiger's first apology. Three minutes of "I'm sorry" (I got your alliance fubar) and 20 minutes of !@#$%*ing about how they were bad allies to begin with and you should have dumped them a long time ago, when you know that is complete !@#$%^&*. The NSO would have, and indeed did, gone to any ends to support Polar. Polar squandered that gift.

To me personally, I hate it. The only thing the NSO did was honor its word.

But, that isn't the point of this topic.

Again, congratulations to both parties.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Ivan Moldavi

[William Blake]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='01 April 2010 - 11:58 AM' timestamp='1270141091' post='2243937']
Just because it isn't on your to do list doesn't mean it isn't on ours. You guys can come here and say what what ever you want mending relations with RoK but I am sure the majority of us in both \m/ and NpO would be quite happy if the other ceased to exist.
[/quote]
I think we'd be fine either way, not too particularly worked up over it (I know there's no thread on our forum where the BR sits around flaming you guys or wishing death and destruction), though I guess I can't blame you if that's how your membership feels.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='D34th' date='01 April 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1270141631' post='2243955']
Well you are an exception in this thread, and while I understand you being unhappy with past decisions the best way to amend it(if you/your members want to) isn't insulting polaris in threads that have nothing to do with NSO, as already said by Polaris Gov in this same thread, we are open to discuss and talk with you guys, but if NSO expect us to blame only ourselves for what happened you will be losing your time. We recognize our mistakes in this war(and Peace out with GOD/VE/etc wan't one of them at least in my opinion) but you need to start to recognize yours.



That's why I don't understand people being allied with \m/, we in Polaris have our quota of failures of course(great part of them in the last war I recognize) but we have our sucesses too, I can't say the same about your alliance, have \m/ ever succeed?
[/quote]
I just want to thank you for proving my point.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='D34th' date='01 April 2010 - 01:07 PM' timestamp='1270141631' post='2243955']
Well you are an exception in this thread, and while I understand you being unhappy with past decisions the best way to amend it(if you/your members want to) isn't insulting polaris in threads that have nothing to do with NSO, as already said by Polaris Gov in this same thread, we are open to discuss and talk with you guys, but if NSO expect us to blame only ourselves for what happened you will be losing your time. We recognize our mistakes in this war(and Peace out with GOD/VE/etc wan't one of them at least in my opinion) but you need to start to recognize yours.
[/quote]

I would be interested in hearing what you believe the NSO "mistakes" were. Could you PM them to me? Thanks.

[D34th]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='01 April 2010 - 03:16 PM' timestamp='1270142180' post='2243968']
I just want to thank you for proving my point.
[/quote]

Thank you.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='01 April 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1270142268' post='2243970']
I would be interested in hearing what you believe the NSO "mistakes" were. Could you PM them to me? Thanks.
[/quote]

Of course.

[Chief Savage Man]

D34th please stop making me regret not objecting to this resigning.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='01 April 2010 - 05:23 PM' timestamp='1270142563' post='2243982']
D34th please stop making me regret not objecting to this resigning.
[/quote]
You know when I catch you in the halls I am going to kick you in the nads.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='01 April 2010 - 01:24 PM' timestamp='1270142623' post='2243984']
You know when I catch you in the halls I am going to kick you in the nads.
[/quote]

Yeah I know.

[Swiper]

[quote name='Jake Liebenow' date='01 April 2010 - 12:13 PM' timestamp='1270138408' post='2243844']
I'm pretty sure saying that we "martyred" too much, and saying that we chose to stick to both our loins and our treaty and follow through with it, or, as Grub put it, being a "hero", one could draw that conclusion.

You went behind our backs and betrayed the spirit of our treaty to go and declare war on someone who was [b]bigger[/b] than who you said was "too big" before. Not to mention the military blunder that was declaring on GOD, a meatshield, in a sense, but that's neither here nor there, I suppose. And you say your government is the one that required the patience? Absolutely despicable.

Also, the mere fact that you felt the urge to counter-troll shows that our trolling was effective

EDIT: Cleaned up some syntax errors.
[/quote]

We followed treaty obligations to the letter in each scenario. You decided to be an hero, deliberately keeping both of our alliances at war simply to satisfy the urges of an egomaniac. That is betrayal. The fact that we felt the urge to counter-betray simply shows just how effective your betrayal really was.

Also you aren't seriously trolling just to get us to counter-troll, are you? That is quite amateur of you. Real trolling is done to sway the public opinion, which is evidently something you are not very good at, considering we are re-signing treaties and all.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='Swiper' date='01 April 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1270143145' post='2243998']
We followed treaty obligations to the letter in each scenario. You decided to be an hero, deliberately keeping both of our alliances at war simply to satisfy the urges of an egomaniac. That is betrayal. The fact that we felt the urge to counter-betray simply shows just how effective your betrayal really was.

<words>
[/quote]

Watch the vocabulary, buddy.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Chief Savage Man

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Swiper' date='01 April 2010 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1270143145' post='2243998']
We followed treaty obligations to the letter in each scenario. You decided to be an hero, deliberately keeping both of our alliances at war simply to satisfy the urges of an egomaniac. That is betrayal. The fact that we felt the urge to counter-betray simply shows just how effective your betrayal really was.

Also you aren't seriously trolling just to get us to counter-troll, are you? That is quite amateur of you. Real trolling is done to sway the public opinion, which is evidently something you are not very good at, considering we are re-signing treaties and all.
[/quote]
You do accept that all the carnage over the last couple months was directly caused by a egomaniac at the helm of Polaris?

[Jrenster]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='01 April 2010 - 04:37 AM' timestamp='1270111008' post='2243499']
My dearest Mussolandia, my former friends and allies at NSO and Ivan, I humbly and sincerely apologize if my actions during recent times have disappointed you. I made some calls that perhaps I shouldn't have and I know some of these calls had a negative effect on your alliance. Funnily enough, I have never sought you out to troll you every time some of your calls had a negative impact on me or my alliance, I just worked hard to prevent issues developing quietly, dealing with my frustrations privately. I guess some of us have a different view of how it goes down I guess. I hereby sincerely apologize for the things I actually did wrong to you, which were several and serious.

You will note however that I have ZERO issue with peacing out in the GOD/VE front, you had deliberately, systematically and vigorously breached every basic tenet of friendship and brotherhood by that time. Your continual arrogance, deliberate mixed messages and blatant martyrdom exceeded even what I was prepared to accept from an ally. As for the rest, you made your choices to be heroes when a scintilla of humility and good sportsmanship would have seen you walk away like everyone else. You are entitled to your own stances and positions, but I am also free to regard them as being serious conceited.

Enjoy the world you have made for yourself, Penguin will do his best to undo the damages I caused, but Polaris at least will not be burdened with a collection of people destined to their own self-martyrdom. I have made mistakes, I am happy to take the criticism that comes with those mistakes, but trolling a treaty is surely beneath someone of your apparent magnitude.
[/quote]

This is getting absolutely out of hand. Is this what you are feeding to the rest of Polar? Allow me to [i]fabricate[/i] our version of history if you will.

First, you must realize that this was all one war for us. We saw no difference between the second and the first part because it was all one continuous stream of fighting the same alliances. The first mistake you pulled was leaving us behind and not telling us about it in the \m/ portion of the conflict. I don't think there is a disagreement here on this. You got white peace before making sure to get white peace for your own allies. A rational selfish intent, but the wrong political move. Especially given the context of IRON and TOP making their preemptive attacks. But I digress, this has nothing to do with IRON and TOP.

The second mistake, while it is arguable as to whether or not it is a mistake, was moving in on the GoD front. You were abundantly aware of who were causing us the most damage. It was quite obvious that GoD was not a threat to us in any manner or form and that Fark was. There was absolutely no reason to jump in on that front. And you wanted us to hail your arrival there as heroes. And so we did. I'm not saying we didn't appreciate the gesture, but it definitely wasn't a even a hand basket. So you will forgive us if we weren't overly excited about that fact.

The third and final one, was when you pulled out on that GoD/VE front. This is where most of the contention lies, so I will give our point of view as best as I can. We were still in the middle of discussing peace. Yes, Ivan was vehemently denying the idea of surrender. While it's plausible for someone outside of NSO to see that act as being overly dramatic, I assure you that it is not. By that time, we felt that we were getting shafted by Polar. Ivan said that "we were willing to go to oblivion" for you, and this was true from the beginning. This is not martyrdom, this is being a good friend. When you left, and IRON jumped in, we had to demonstrate to IRON that same willingness. Now when we have been fighting this entire war for our allies, and just for our allies, we felt we had absolutely no reason to surrender to anybody. This may seem arrogant, and brash of us, but who the hell do you think we are? But at the same time, IRON had told us that it would be fine for us to leave that front. So the issue wasn't about us leaving our friends behind, like you did, it was about a sense of pride. Maybe unfounded, but there is definitely a degree of rationale found behind it that isn't extreme at all. My point is that you were willing to leave far too easily. We were asking for white peace instead of surrender, and you saw us as vivacious simpletons. You didn't even try to understand our point of view. You disregarded it and simply decided to leave it. If you had waited and observed, you would have seen that there were a couple of us who were vying for peace regardless of the surrender issue.

Now as for us barging in on your thread, I personally did not support this and I know there are a couple of us who don't. But you must understand that some of us just straight up don't like you right now. Especially when we realize that you are feeding Polar an extremely biased version of the truths. I do hope that we could at least try to amend this issue. Then we can stop pointing fingers and yelling at each other like little children.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Swiper' date='01 April 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1270143145' post='2243998']
We followed treaty obligations to the letter in each scenario. You decided to be an hero, deliberately keeping both of our alliances at war simply to satisfy the urges of an egomaniac. That is betrayal. The fact that we felt the urge to counter-betray simply shows just how effective your betrayal really was.

Also you aren't seriously trolling just to get us to counter-troll, are you? That is quite amateur of you. Real trolling is done to sway the public opinion, which is evidently something you are not very good at, considering we are re-signing treaties and all.
[/quote]
Weird. I don't recall launching a crusade against anyone because I didn't like their posting style.

If you are going to characterize me as an egomaniac that isn't really a very hard thing to do, it seems like you could at least do so with something substantive to support it. There are lots of things just lying around that would do so. Unfortunately, this war wasn't one of them. The NSO only entered to defend Polar. It was left on the field with a vague promise of white peace. Considering that we believed you to be truthful and upfront with us at the time it only makes sense that we would hold out in the hope that our good allies, whom we entered to defend, would support us in seeking what you promised. Imagine my surprise when that didn't occur.

[Merrie Melodies]

Look, I have very direct ties to members in RoK, I wish them nothing but the best and I understand their desire to regain their treaty with NpO, hell it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out that between NpO and \m/ NpO is the better bet. That being said as a member of \m/ I have asked myself the following questions and came to the following answers.
1. Do I trust that RoK would defend us against future NpO aggression? No
2. Do I thrust that RoK would have our best interest at heart if conflict should arise between \m/ and any other alliance tied in any obscure way to this treaty? No
3. Do I feel that RoK adequately sought out the feelings of \m/ membership prior to this re-signing? No

I really feel in light of this re-signing and what has been said since that RoK and \m/ need to spend some time together re-evaluating our levels of commitment. I know I have lost some of that desire to defend RoK to a state of ZI if necessary, and if my feelings are common within \m/ it does bring into question whether a MDoAP is a proper treaty to hold.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='Swiper' date='01 April 2010 - 01:32 PM' timestamp='1270143145' post='2243998']
We followed treaty obligations to the letter in each scenario. You decided to be an hero, deliberately keeping both of our alliances at war simply to satisfy the urges of an egomaniac. That is betrayal. The fact that we felt the urge to counter-betray simply shows just how effective your betrayal really was.

Also you aren't seriously trolling just to get us to counter-troll, are you? That is quite amateur of you. Real trolling is done to sway the public opinion, which is evidently something you are not very good at, considering we are re-signing treaties and all.
[/quote]

Let me offer you my congratulations for e-lawyering yourself out of a sticky situation. While you may have followed every letter on a piece of paper, we were content to go much further than the ink and lay our entire existence on the line for the camaraderie that existed.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='01 April 2010 - 05:46 PM' timestamp='1270143958' post='2244031']
Let me offer you my congratulations for e-lawyering yourself out of a sticky situation. While you may have followed every letter on a piece of paper, we were content to go much further than the ink and lay our entire existence on the line for the camaraderie that existed.
[/quote]
Welcome to the "have been defecated on by Polaris" club.

[D34th]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='01 April 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1270142563' post='2243982']
D34th please stop making me regret not objecting to this resigning.
[/quote]

I'm making a \m/ member fell bad? Thanks for the news, my day looks better now

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='D34th' date='01 April 2010 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1270144111' post='2244035']
I'm making a \m/ member fell bad? Thanks for the news, my day looks better now
[/quote]
Hoo/RoK, here is a prime example of why we never, ever want to be remotely associated in any way shape or form with anything to do with Polaris.
Thanks for making me throw up a little bit in my mouth.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Merrie Melodies

[D34th]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='01 April 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1270144274' post='2244040']
Hoo/RoK, here is a prime example of why we never, ever want to be remotely associated in any way shape or form with anything to do with Polaris.
Thanks for making me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
[/quote]

Oh I hurt your fellings because I don't like \m/? It isn't ok for you don't like you? What about your members insuting my former emperor? What about your members doesn't liking us? What about you insulting us in this thread? But when I say that I don't like you all that you can say is "look Hoo/RoK they don't like us" bawww.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='D34th' date='01 April 2010 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1270144111' post='2244035']
I'm making a \m/ member fell bad? Thanks for the news, my day looks better now
[/quote]

If making life difficult for your allies is a good day for you, you have some serious issues my friend.