The New Grämlins

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Baldr' timestamp='1280102330' post='2388949']
Yes, taxes are capped at 20 days. But the 4 days of "you didn't get any income" that he gets for collecting at 24 days isn't going to make a noticeable difference since he's at ZI and in nuclear anarchy. He's getting a defeat alert every day. Collect daily, or at 20 days, or at 24, and it makes essentially no difference in his situation.
[/quote]
Ah, that's what you meant.

Carry on.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' timestamp='1280101415' post='2388916']
Taxes are capped at 20 days anyway. I'm not sure about bills, but I don't see anything about them being capped. In fact, they get worse the longer you wait to pay them.
[/quote]

Taxes stop at day 20, bills keep piling up. The extra five days are so you can back collect without risking your nation.

[RustyNail]

5000 posts and still nothing worthwhile has been said...

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='RustyNail' timestamp='1280128142' post='2389462']
5000 posts and still nothing worthwhile has been said...
[/quote]

Well I heard gramlins is being raided.

[andrew734]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1280128729' post='2389477']
Well I heard gramlins is being raided.
[/quote]

thats funny i heard IRON was being fail raided

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='andrew734' timestamp='1280141767' post='2389584']
thats funny i heard IRON was being fail raided
[/quote]

I think you missed the joke.

[Schattenmann]

If I were IRON I'd just stop declaring new wars on Gre and start paying reps to whoever they owe. At this point the war's over except for the paperwork.

[Schad]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280170669' post='2389919']
If I were IRON I'd just stop declaring new wars on Gre and start paying reps to whoever they owe. At this point the war's over except for the paperwork.
[/quote]

They have started paying reps at this juncture...actually, I can see several IRON nations that are both staggering Gramlins [i]and[/i] using their aid slots to pay reps.

Edit: slot confusion.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Schad

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280170669' post='2389919']
If I were IRON I'd just stop declaring new wars on Gre and start paying reps to whoever they owe. At this point the war's over except for the paperwork.
[/quote]
We have started paying reps.

As to declaring new wars, no. It's already been confirmed that several Gremlins have already decided to fight their entire way down (and out). I'd rather keep it on our terms then on theirs.

[Baldr]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280170669' post='2389919']
If I were IRON I'd just stop declaring new wars on Gre and start paying reps to whoever they owe. At this point the war's over except for the paperwork.
[/quote]

IRON has been paying reps for a couple of weeks, I think. If Gramlins wants IRON to stop attacking, then Gramlins can agree to white peace. However, since Gramlins is going to continue their "unconditional surrender or war forever" plan, it makes sense to remove the tech and warchests from Gramlins while it can be done. As things stand, IRON controls the war. They pick the battles, they pick the timing. If they stop declaring on Gramlins, then Gramlins nations can rebuild to 20 or 25 nukes and declare on 3 nations, starting the whole thing again. Why should IRON give them that opportunity when it's Gramlins that refuses to agree to end the war?

IRON isn't making any demands other than one very simple one. For the war to end, Gramlins has to agree to end it. No reps required, no punishment, no "I'm sorry", just an agreement to let it go. If IRON stops attacking, it just lets Gramlins regroup and catch their breath, but the war will continue because Gramlins doesn't want it to end. If they want it to end, they should say so.

Their "We want you to give us unconditional surrender, stand down your troops, and then we'll tell you our terms" stuff isn't going to happen.

[shilo]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280170669' post='2389919']
If I were IRON I'd just stop declaring new wars on Gre and start paying reps to whoever they owe. At this point the war's over except for the paperwork.
[/quote]
Î assume that you aren't looking out for IRON's best interest when saying that.

[eejack]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280170669' post='2389919']
If I were IRON I'd just stop declaring new wars on Gre and start paying reps to whoever they owe. At this point the war's over except for the paperwork.
[/quote]

And deal with the constant threat of attack from an alliance that refuses to come to terms with reality?

Surrender or obliteration seems to be the only terms grämlins will accept - just leaving them there to reignite the war would be daft.

EEjack

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1280184503' post='2390369']
And deal with the constant threat of attack from an alliance that refuses to come to terms with reality?

Surrender or obliteration seems to be the only terms grämlins will accept - just leaving them there to reignite the war would be daft.

EEjack
[/quote]

I'm with jack, if Gre doesn't want white peace that makes em target practice for IRON.

This has gotta be a first. A curb stomp conducted under threat of..... White Peace.

Edited July 27, 2010 by TypoNinja

[Crymson]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1280188891' post='2390475']
I'm with jack, if Gre doesn't want white peace that makes em target practice for IRON.

This has gotta be a first. A curb stomp conducted under threat of..... White Peace.
[/quote]

MatthewPK beseeches IRON to surrender! Thorgrum decries the malignant destruction of the (antagonistic and megalomaniacal) Gramlins at the hands of the (antagonized and peace-offering) forces of IRON and DAWN!

[b]WARP TEN!!!!![/b]

Edited July 27, 2010 by Crymson

[Haflinger]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1280188891' post='2390475']
This has gotta be a first. A curb stomp conducted under threat of..... White Peace.
[/quote]
No, second. OcUK did the same thing with RoK in WotC. OcUK refused peace with RoK, as they were offended that RoK preemptively struck them.

The parallels are kinda interesting.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1280183632' post='2390346']
Î assume that you aren't looking out for IRON's best interest when saying that.
[/quote]


[quote name='EEjack' timestamp='1280184503' post='2390369']
And deal with the constant threat of attack from an alliance that refuses to come to terms with reality?

Surrender or obliteration seems to be the only terms grämlins will accept - just leaving them there to reignite the war would be daft.

EEjack
[/quote]
No, not really. I wasn't aware that IRON had already started paying off, I mean I'd just get on with life and get out of terms. I don't really see any "constant threat" coming from Gremlin.

[shilo]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280200779' post='2390750']
No, not really. I wasn't aware that IRON had already started paying off, I mean I'd just get on with life and get out of terms. I don't really see any "constant threat" coming from Gremlin.
[/quote]
Of course, there is a hostile alliance with the goal to force unconditional surrender on two alliances that rather gets destroyed than divert from said goal. That is very much a threat, albeit a small one, but definitely one. The only way this threat will be removed is by either them getting off their delusional high horse (unlikely) or by us making sure they cannot be a threat to us anymore.
In terms of practical applications, the terms don't really limit that much, so being under terms is manageable.

[Bob Janova]

To be honest, there is still a significant threat. Most of those nations will still have hundreds of millions, and if they're allowed to come out of anarchy they could rebuild to a range where infra is expensive, rebuild their nukes and launch a new wave of attacks on IRON and DAWN's mid tier. At this point the result is clear, Grämlins have lost too many nations for that sort of thing to actually make them win, but they could do a few billion in extra damage. While I don't like seeing people being held at ZI and in anarchy indefinitely, while Grämlins leadership refuses to take the offered peace there's really no other choice.

[Rextu]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280200779' post='2390750']
I mean I'd just get on with life and get out of terms.
[/quote]

No point in that. Deep down in the soul of the beings who play this game is a sense of enjoyment of having something other to do than encourage people to save up war chests.

But as mentioned in the above two posts, it would be unwise to turn a blind eye to what could still damage them. Then there's the argument of war being good for activity, even if it is extensively prolonged.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1280198342' post='2390689']
No, second. OcUK did the same thing with RoK in WotC. OcUK refused peace with RoK, as they were offended that RoK preemptively struck them.

The parallels are kinda interesting.
[/quote]

OcUK had a policy of never surrendering.

[Alexander The Second]

Interesting read, gotta say no surrender seems nice but I'd think it better to just call it where it stands and move on.


Rebuild, recruit, and if it is logical re-declare. I have never been in favor of wars over pride, but if ya gotta at least do it the way you don't end up screwed too bad.


either way GL to both sides, and GlotR

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1280208938' post='2390923']
Of course, there is a hostile alliance with the goal to force unconditional surrender on two alliances that rather gets destroyed than divert from said goal. That is very much a threat, albeit a small one, but definitely one. The only way this threat will be removed is by either them getting off their delusional high horse (unlikely) or by us making sure they cannot be a threat to us anymore.
In terms of practical applications, the terms don't really limit that much, so being under terms is manageable.
[/quote]
I know it's cute to keep talking about the silly unconditional surrender, but we all know Ramirus has stopped asking for that.

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1280232492' post='2391104']
To be honest, there is still a significant threat. Most of those nations will still have hundreds of millions, and if they're allowed to come out of anarchy they could rebuild to a range where infra is expensive, rebuild their nukes and launch a new wave of attacks on IRON and DAWN's mid tier. At this point the result is clear, Grämlins have lost too many nations for that sort of thing to actually make them win, but they could do a few billion in extra damage. While I don't like seeing people being held at ZI and in anarchy indefinitely, while Grämlins leadership refuses to take the offered peace there's really no other choice.
[/quote]
15 nations pose near 0 threat to IRON or DAWN. None of them are in aggressive wars, and I dare say that if IRON ignored Gremlins only 2 or 3 Gremlins would bother with IRON.

[Aeternos Astramora]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280248517' post='2391297']
I know it's cute to keep talking about the silly unconditional surrender, but we all know Ramirus has stopped asking for that.
[/quote]
Their new offer isn't any better.

[quote]15 nations pose near 0 threat to IRON or DAWN. None of them are in aggressive wars, and I dare say that if IRON ignored Gremlins only 2 or 3 Gremlins would bother with IRON.
[/quote]
I don't know, I think 4 members of a rogue alliance averaging 145K NS is something you don't want hanging around.

[Schattenmann]

A "rogue alliance?" Hahahaha! Let's sanction all of them.

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280251612' post='2391370']A "rogue alliance?" Hahahaha! Let's sanction all of them.[/quote]This sounds like a good idea, much better than ignoring a bunch of lunatics who are committed to harm us.