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So after all the "We won't pay reps" talk, PC says they'll pay reps - but they don't say how much. The $210M that was calculated as the damages (which is what your rules say you will do.) The $100M that Echelon asked you to pay at first? The $50 that they asked you to pay later? Less?

I think it's good that you've agreed to pay anything at all, but I think it would be fair to post the amount. People are going to see this differently if it's $3M than if it's $200, etc.

Edited by Baldr
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[quote name='Baldr' date='11 March 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1268370046' post='2223013']
So after all the "We won't pay reps" talk, PC says they'll pay reps - but they don't say how much. The $210M that was calculated as the damages (which is what your rules say you will do.) The $100M that Echelon asked you to pay at first? The $50 that they asked you to pay later? Less?

I think it's good that you've agreed to pay anything at all, but I think it would be fair to post the amount. People are going to see this differently if it's $3M than if it's $200, etc.
[/quote]

Frankly that is not your problem iirc. Try adding cannon fodder somewhere else please. B-)

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[quote name='Don Fernando' date='11 March 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1268370011' post='2223012']
I don't really see us handling our business in our way, in good time, as a good show, in good faith, and being fair seeing as what has transpired, what bad PR is there. In all honesty, our friend are our friends, allies our allies, enemies enemies, ect. Nothing is new, and new friends were gained in the process. Did you gain something from trying to bring down the resolution of so many peoples good time the past few days?
[/quote]

What bad PR?? Really??? REALLY??? :lol1:

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Glad to see this. Its good to see this headache come to a resolution.

Not to detract from it (nothing wrong with it overall),

[quote]7. Sakura then digs into the edit logs of the Wiki and finds out that an Echelon Government member had just taken down the merger announcement. This fact and this fact alone put much doubt in the minds of PC Government of Echelon's intentions.[/quote]

It was actually me who made the edit, and it was not a 'conspiracy', but rather a way to prevent this sort of #$#! from happening again in the future. And for the record, I am not a member of the Echelon government nor did I act on their directions on that matter.

Edited by memoryproblems
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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='11 March 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1268370196' post='2223017']
What bad PR?? Really??? REALLY??? :lol1:
[/quote]

As I said, friends are friends, allies are allies, and enemies enemies. As far as I see it, not many peoples attitudes towards us have changed. We have completely changed our government since greenacres was around, yet people (not all thank god), have seen us in the same light. So I'm gonna go back to doing what I do, I assume you will to. Have fun playing poke the dead horse you are trying to beat. (P.S. - It's dead)

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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='11 March 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1268369991' post='2223011']
Please elaborate??? I'm honestly not sure what you're referencing...
[/quote]

Think back to a time...When you were in another alliance...who...launched an unprovoked on an unprotected, untreatied alliance. Later admitting to your a very close ally that you had no CB, and you just did it because you could, and nobody would care. Then Tela was part of a peace negotiation. Terms we agreed on. The offending alliance honored zero of the terms, despite repeated efforts on the afflicted alliance's part. Then said afflicted alliance got a protectorate from the fine folks in Athens, and not wanting to create an immediate issue for our protectors, with a global war on the horizon, just let it go. Its not even about those terms anymore. Its about watching the sanctimonious ramblings of people who were a part of that debacle, espousing about "doing what is right." It sickens me to see it, and it sickens me even more to see people supporting these people.

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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='11 March 2010 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1268370196' post='2223017']
What bad PR?? Really??? REALLY??? :lol1:
[/quote]
just because you see it as bad PR doesnt mean we do. We know that no matter what we do, someone will find a way to say its bad PR. thats just the way things are. BUt that doesnt mean we feel it has had a negative effect

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[quote name='memoryproblems' date='11 March 2010 - 11:01 PM' timestamp='1268370423' post='2223020']
It was actually me who made the edit, and it was not a 'conspiracy', but rather a way to prevent this sort of #$#! from happening again in the future. And for the record, I am not a member of the Echelon government nor did I act on their directions on that matter.
[/quote]

Thank you for coming out and saying that, the truth is good. Now for what some (ONE person) was trying to write this whole issue as, "PC raided SBA KNOWING that they were protected with that information up on the WIKI" and the truth of the matter being "PC raided SBA and echelon added that bit back up to the wiki because SBA merged into Echelon, some members stayed behind, we never mentioned that we decided to unknowingly protect the AA indeffinately without mention, and lets pretend it was always there and make a big mess of things...then take it to public."

Not saying this is your fault, clearly it isn't. We know whose it is, the issue is over. Lets all move along here and have fun watching something else. ^_^

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[quote name='Don Fernando' date='12 March 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1268370440' post='2223021']
As I said, friends are friends, allies are allies, and enemies enemies. As far as I see it, not many peoples attitudes towards us have changed. We have completely changed our government since greenacres was around, yet people (not all thank god), have seen us in the same light. So I'm gonna go back to doing what I do, I assume you will to. Have fun playing poke the dead horse you are trying to beat. (P.S. - It's dead)
[/quote]

So commenting on a current and obvious situation is poking a dead horse? Hmmm and here I thought I might actually get some sort of honest response from your alliance on the topic rather than a vapid attempt to sweep things under the rug as if they never occurred. Alas, another hope dashed...

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[quote name='Baldr' date='11 March 2010 - 11:55 PM' timestamp='1268370046' post='2223013']
So after all the "We won't pay reps" talk, PC says they'll pay reps - but they don't say how much. The $210M that was calculated as the damages (which is what your rules say you will do.) The $100M that Echelon asked you to pay at first? The $50 that they asked you to pay later? Less?

I think it's good that you've agreed to pay anything at all, but I think it would be fair to post the amount. People are going to see this differently if it's $3M than if it's $200, etc.
[/quote]
I think the primary reason they didn't say how much is that they were still "discussing that privately" with SBA.

[quote name='Newhotness' date='12 March 2010 - 12:06 AM' timestamp='1268370717' post='2223027']
just because you see it as bad PR doesnt mean we do. We know that no matter what we do, someone will find a way to say its bad PR. thats just the way things are. BUt that doesnt mean we feel it has had a negative effect
[/quote]
If you don't see any negative effect, then you're blind. But anyway, good to see the situation finally addressed in a more reasonable manner.

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[quote name='MaGneT' date='12 March 2010 - 04:35 AM' timestamp='1268368844' post='2222977']
Hi. PC clearly had some internal discussions about this. It's clear that some minds were changed and some hearts softened.
Now please find another bone to pick.
[/quote]

Yeah, the OP totally shows humility :rolleyes:

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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='11 March 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1268370876' post='2223034'] Hmmm and here I thought I might actually get some sort of honest response from your alliance on the topic rather than a vapid attempt to sweep things under the rug as if they never occurred.
[/quote]

What honest response were you looking for? And your sure instead of trying to construe something on here, you couldn't have just as easily came into our IRC, as posted previously, and talked to one of us / our Gov?

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[quote name='Don Fernando' date='12 March 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1268370798' post='2223030']
Thank you for coming out and saying that, the truth is good. Now for what some (ONE person) was trying to write this whole issue as, "PC raided SBA KNOWING that they were protected with that information up on the WIKI" and the truth of the matter being "PC raided SBA and echelon added that bit back up to the wiki because SBA merged into Echelon, some members stayed behind, we never mentioned that we decided to unknowingly protect the AA indeffinately without mention, and lets pretend it was always there and make a big mess of things...then take it to public."

Not saying this is your fault, clearly it isn't. We know whose it is, the issue is over. Lets all move along here and have fun watching something else. ^_^
[/quote]

This issue is supposed to be over, stop trying to play the PR game. I'd ask you to read the OP of the other thread. It proves that you're being belligerently ignorant.

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[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1268370656' post='2223025']
Think back to a time...When you were in another alliance...who...launched an unprovoked on an unprotected, untreatied alliance. Later admitting to your a very close ally that you had no CB, and you just did it because you could, and nobody would care. Then Tela was part of a peace negotiation. Terms we agreed on. The offending alliance honored zero of the terms, despite repeated efforts on the afflicted alliance's part. Then said afflicted alliance got a protectorate from the fine folks in Athens, and not wanting to create an immediate issue for our protectors, with a global war on the horizon, just let it go. Its not even about those terms anymore. Its about watching the sanctimonious ramblings of people who were a part of that debacle, espousing about "doing what is right." It sickens me to see it, and it sickens me even more to see people supporting these people.
[/quote]

Ahhh the FINAL situation...I myself was 1. Not AE government at the time and had NO control over what AE's government did or said. 2. Never, EVER stated there was no CB and 3. I do not know WHAT FINAL told you but I know several people DID pay FINAL, myself being one of them. It sickens me that YOU do not want the past brought up in reference to PC yet you bring up a 2+ year old incident. Oh well...

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[quote name='Don Fernando' date='11 March 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1268370798' post='2223030']
Thank you for coming out and saying that, the truth is good. Now for what some (ONE person) was trying to write this whole issue as, "PC raided SBA KNOWING that they were protected with that information up on the WIKI" and the truth of the matter being "PC raided SBA and echelon added that bit back up to the wiki because SBA merged into Echelon, some members stayed behind, we never mentioned that we decided to unknowingly protect the AA indeffinately without mention, and lets pretend it was always there and make a big mess of things...then take it to public."

Not saying this is your fault, clearly it isn't. We know whose it is, the issue is over. Lets all move along here and have fun watching something else. ^_^
[/quote]

There is an obvious difference between a full merger and a few members defecting to join up, thats like saying MCXA disbanded when TSO formed. I believe we had something like 5 out of 20 members from SBA join Echelon, a few others joined other alliances, including TOP, with the majority remaining behind. We never denied that the wiki had been edited, the edit history is in the public domain. More then anything, the SBA wiki just really hadn't been checked over that often, and false information that was edited in was never removed. There are plenty of other things that could be said of the wiki situation, but frankly they don't need said, the situation is over, and thats what matters.

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[quote name='Don Fernando' date='12 March 2010 - 12:12 AM' timestamp='1268371092' post='2223039']
What honest response were you looking for? And your sure instead of trying to construe something on here, you couldn't have just as easily came into our IRC, as posted previously, and talked to one of us / our Gov?
[/quote]

As my alliance has nothing whatsoever to do with Poison Clan why 1. Would I bother? and 2. Would YOU bother speaking to me?

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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='12 March 2010 - 12:13 AM' timestamp='1268371140' post='2223041']
Ahhh the FINAL situation...I myself was 1. Not AE government at the time and had NO control over what AE's government did or said. 2. Never, EVER stated there was no CB and 3. I do not know WHAT FINAL told you but I know several people DID pay FINAL, myself being one of them. It sickens me that YOU do not want the past brought up in reference to PC yet you bring up a 2+ year old incident. Oh well...
[/quote]

Completely..and utterly LIES. AE paid not one cent. I was a FINAL trium at the time...please do not tell me what happened in my alliance. K, thx. Also...As I said, this is not about those terms. This IS about a segment of the cast of characters attacking my allies and their credibility over this incident, given their own past, and the value of "their word." The 2 year old terms that were never paid, are not relevant, your reputations, are.

Edited by Rush Sykes
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[quote name='Vhalen' date='11 March 2010 - 11:11 PM' timestamp='1268371031' post='2223035']
I think the primary reason they didn't say how much is that they were still "discussing that privately" with SBA.


If you don't see any negative effect, then you're blind. But anyway, good to see the situation finally addressed in a more reasonable manner.
[/quote]

Your not in our shoes, the same as I'm not in yours. I haven't judged you, why do you judge us. Peoples perspective on things changes with the position the set themselves in. I'm just glad i've met new people, and this whole mess got straightened out, despite the troubles we've had trying to get things fixed properly.

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[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1268371253' post='2223048']
Completely..and utterly LIES. AE paid not one cent. I was a FINAL trium at the time...please do not tell me what happened in my alliance. K, thx.
[/quote]

Odd JF, because yes, I did pay (through at least 2 tech deals as per what was supposedly the agreement). So yeah, *thx* :rolleyes:

LOL your sanctimony is stomach turning, as usual...

:EDIT: Add on

Edited by Augusta Antonia
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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='11 March 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1268371248' post='2223046']
As my alliance has nothing whatsoever to do with Poison Clan why 1. Would I bother? and 2. Would YOU bother speaking to me?
[/quote]

1. Im not you, no need to ask.
2. Im in #poisonclan, your more then welcome to join.

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[quote name='Don Fernando' date='12 March 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1268371431' post='2223056']
1. Im not you, no need to ask.
2. Im in #poisonclan, your more then welcome to join.
[/quote]

Hmm I just may and ty for the invite. You're the first semi-reasonable and friendly PC member I've come upon.

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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='12 March 2010 - 12:20 AM' timestamp='1268371558' post='2223059']
Hmm I just may and ty for the invite. You're the first semi-reasonable and friendly PC member I've come upon.
[/quote]

You really should come around and say hi there are a ton of great guys and gals in Poison Clan. :D

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[quote name='Augusta Antonia' date='11 March 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1268371558' post='2223059']
Hmm I just may and ty for the invite. You're the first semi-reasonable and friendly PC member I've come upon.
[/quote]

We are all reasonable. Also, from earlier, I USED to deal with RDD a lot, but, nobody from PC was originally PC, we have all come from different places. We are, as I see it, like America. We are all immigrants from other places, bringing together good qualities. We have some problems, admitibly, but if you tell me that any alliance is without its flaws, then there is something seriously wrong, or your a one man alliance that I haven't found yet :awesome:

^^ Joking ^^

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[quote name='Vhalen' date='12 March 2010 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1268371031' post='2223035']
I think the primary reason they didn't say how much is that they were still "discussing that privately" with SBA.


If you don't see any negative effect, then you're blind. But anyway, good to see the situation finally addressed in a more reasonable manner.
[/quote]
no, it just means i see it differently than you. as stated before our friends are still our friends and the people that hated us still hate us. The reason why they hate us may have changed, or their hate may have grown stronger, but the fact is they still hate us. So nothing has changed, and if nothing has changed, i see no harm being done by this incident

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[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1268371253' post='2223048']
Completely..and utterly LIES. AE paid not one cent. I was a FINAL trium at the time...please do not tell me what happened in my alliance. K, thx. Also...As I said, this is not about those terms. This IS about a segment of the cast of characters attacking my allies and their credibility over this incident, given their own past, and the value of "their word." The 2 year old terms that were never paid, are not relevant, your reputations, are.
[/quote]

Wonder if this guy is as dramatic and anguished when speaking to his buddy, former tri of the evil Atlantic Empire, ally to Athens and member of the mighty Mushroom Kingdom?

Naw, he'd rather randomly attack someone that was just a regular member back then.

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