Poison Clan Announcement

[Choader]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 05:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]
You know, Genghis Khan accomplished more in his lifetime then all but about a dozen people in history. I don't mind a comparison to him.

Hitler on the other hand, Londo's more like a tin pot dictator.

[Caffine]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='12 March 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1268439011' post='2223748']
Did you read the OP? Reps were not paid due to Echelon's conduct, and because PC became fed up with the situation. In exploring a way to come to a meaningful resolution, which they were doing with or without a public thread from Echelon, an idea was floated that would allow them to bypass Echelon.

Please stop speaking about things of which you have no idea.
[/quote]

So are you pretending that the other thread doesn't exist? That doesn't seem to work when the other thread is still on the front page.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Caffine1' date='12 March 2010 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1268443933' post='2223846']
So are you pretending that the other thread doesn't exist? That doesn't seem to work when the other thread is still on the front page.
[/quote]

I'm well aware of the other thread... did you know the sky was blue?

I really don't know what we're doing here.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='13 March 2010 - 01:29 AM' timestamp='1268444061' post='2223848']
I'm well aware of the other thread... did you know the sky was blue?

I really don't know what we're doing here.
[/quote]

He probably means that just because PC says Echelon did bad in the talks, it doesn't actually mean they did. And to be fair, from the logs posted in the other thread, it does actually look like a lie.

[Shep309]

What's the point of all this? It's not like one "side" is going to magically convince the other "side" of being wrong, so why even try?

Good on PC for deciding that what happened to SBA warranted some compensation.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='12 March 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1268436815' post='2223704']
Yeah thats what happened. Well thats the way they would like to sell it. I think you know PC caved for the same reason Athens did. Because that path leads to ruin. And yes in the past GOONS or \m/ would have been happy to ZI anyone in any alliance for something they said. That they have already returned to some of the practices that doomed them the first time has already painted a massive target on them. They only question is who else will end up getting burned with them.
[/quote]


You would think that for someone who has been around as long as you, you would have learned something. The more knowledge you try to espouse, the more clueless you appear. The very notion that Athens repped Ni! due to outside sources, is absurd. The internal "WTF HAVE WE DONE" and insistence by several members that we owed Ni! reps, began on our forum before Penkala's OWF thread. Believe it or not, there are several members of Athens gov who have a clue how a situation is going to blow up, and set out to get the ball rolling on making it right before any threats from Grub, or any "spankings" from Archon.

I too have been around this game a long time. And, I know the ego of the public at large. They have a need to pat themselves on the back for "accomplishing" the Ni! reps, and nothing like silly facts will get in the way of that ego stroke. As such, you continue to have my blessing to think that any outside force has more control over Athens and her FA than those us actually in Athens.

[Neo Anglia]

[quote name='Parandiac' date='12 March 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1268443451' post='2223835']
you can build a thousand bridges, and people know you're a bridge builder; you screw one goat, and you're branded for life.
[/quote]
Okay 380. That one deserves a mention in Trashcat's Corner. Best one liner I've seen all week.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]

Generally, I try to avoid commenting on anything that you say. Truth is, within Athens, to a great many, you are considered a mentor, and will always hold a special place in many of our hearts. But this one, I could not pass up. You are better than this. I really think that. I have watched you defend Caffine as a different person, a changed person. Presumably because you believe he is someone who has come to grips with his past mistakes, and that he is really not that same person. Yet, at the same time, Londo, who all but self-removed himself from this venue because he did not like the face he was putting forth, and he really wanted to re-invent his personae because he felt like he had lost respect from people that mattered to him (yourself included).. does not get that same benefit of the doubt... simply because at this moment, he is supporting an ally who has unwaveringly supported us, even when we made douchebags out of ourselves. This post, truly, made me pretty sad.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1268445282' post='2223869']
Generally, I try to avoid commenting on anything that you say. Truth is, within Athens, to a great many, you are considered a mentor, and will always hold a special place in many of our hearts. But this one, I could not pass up. You are better than this. I really think that. I have watched you defend Caffine as a different person, a changed person. Presumably because you believe he is someone who has come to grips with his past mistakes, and that he is really not that same person. Yet, at the same time, Londo, who all but self-removed himself from this venue because he did not like the face he was putting forth, and he really wanted to re-invent his personae because he felt like he had lost respect from people that mattered to him (yourself included).. does not get that same benefit of the doubt... simply because at this moment, he is supporting an ally who has unwaveringly supported us, even when we made douchebags out of ourselves. This post, truly, made me pretty sad.
[/quote]

So, it's alright for Athens/PC to support each other, regardless of how big of a douchebag move the other makes, but if Echelon supports NPO in the same manner, it's not okay? Gotcha.

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 07:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]
AirMe, I don't know what you're on, but when it wears off I suspect you'll be embarrassed by that.

[hawk11]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1268440629' post='2223773']
[b]We did have EZI on the books at one time. We never actually [i]carried out[/i] an EZI sentence in game,[/b] although I did have one guy talk to me and apologize for previous actions when he rejoined CN after a long break. In contrast, alliances like NPO and GGA kept people on EZI for months and years at a time, even when the people wanted off of them very badly and just wanted to [OOC]play again[/OOC]. Not every hegemony alliance acted like this, but many of them did. [b]It's the difference between one state which has capital punishment on the books, and another state which executes thousands of people on the slightest of pretexts. You can't compare us to you, sorry.[/b][/quote]

Oh come now Londo, sure we can; we just have to eliminate your massive exaggeration first.

For argument's sake, I'm going to play devil's advocate against my alliance here and say that we did have some EZI sentences on the books. However, we did not have "thousands" of EZI sentences carried out, as you would like to say. They were also certainly not for the "slightest of pretexts." Your exaggeration is simply a way to make your "no EZI sentences" look fine in comparison to our four or five. However, having the sentence "on the books," [i]a means in which you were willing to punish someone given the opportunity[/i], is just as bad. The only difference between you and I is that I've pulled the trigger, Londo.

[Gamemaster1]

Echelon, really. Be quiet and be glad your protectorate got reps. Stop whining and leave this discussion. It's over.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Gamemaster1

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='12 March 2010 - 08:53 PM' timestamp='1268445547' post='2223875']
So, it's alright for Athens/PC to support each other, regardless of how big of a douchebag move the other makes, but if Echelon supports NPO in the same manner, it's not okay? Gotcha.
[/quote]

The difference is, we(Athens)... clearly saw where we were wrong. No punishment of alliances for 2 years because it would be socially unacceptable to admit we were wrong. No turning our back on one ally to both put ourselves in a safer military position while at the same time avoiding being rolled for lifelong friends. No telling people they (OOC) couldnt play this game anymore because we said so (OOC) Athens and PC support one another ...over bad raids...which WE fronted reps for. I cannot think of one single time that NPO, or her allies... said to the world "we were wrong, and we will make this right." There is a reason I dont remember this happening. That is..because it never happened. Nobody was able to force it, nobody could do anything about it. So, everyone turned a blind eye. To be totally honest...both in Ni! and in this PC raid... Athens and PC could both have "gotten away" with LEAVING it at "do something about it." So yes, without a doubt, I would say the fact that we set out to make things right, puts us leaps and bounds above where you and your friends stood.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Rush Sykes

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='x Tela x' date='13 March 2010 - 01:53 AM' timestamp='1268445547' post='2223875']
So, it's alright for Athens/PC to support each other, regardless of how big of a douchebag move the other makes, but if Echelon supports NPO in the same manner, it's not okay? Gotcha.
[/quote]
Echelon was famous for its own douchebag moves.

[Electron Sponge]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='13 March 2010 - 01:59 AM' timestamp='1268445891' post='2223884']
Athens and PC could both have "gotten away" with LEAVING it at "do something about it."[/quote]
Here's where you're wrong. Sure you might 'get away' with it for a month or two but things like this have a tendency to become an albatross around your neck and a rallying cry for those who'd wish you ill.

To the relativists using NPO as a gauge to measure who are the 'bad guys', knock it off. That's just an intellectually bankrupt line of discus... oh wait, I forgot where I was. Please continue, my apologies.

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' date='12 March 2010 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1268446151' post='2223886']
Here's where you're wrong. Sure you might 'get away' with it for a month or two but things like this have a tendency to become an albatross around your neck and a rallying cry for those who'd wish you ill.

To the relativists using NPO as a gauge to measure who are the 'bad guys', knock it off. That's just an intellectually bankrupt line of discus... oh wait, I forgot where I was. Please continue, my apologies.
[/quote]

In truth, I partially agree with what you say. However, I also recognize the long term possibility of political stagnation that will exist after this current war. While you are correct, that eventually enough bad karma builds up to rally people against you, that end would not have been imminent to either alliance based of off either of the individidual incidents.

[The Reccesion]

If you haven't noticed, when you say "do something about it" people nowadays have a tendancy to do exactly that.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='12 March 2010 - 11:28 PM' timestamp='1268436815' post='2223704']
Yeah thats what happened. Well thats the way they would like to sell it. I think you know PC caved for the same reason Athens did. Because that path leads to ruin. And yes in the past GOONS or \m/ would have been happy to ZI anyone in any alliance for something they said. That they have already returned to some of the practices that doomed them the first time has already painted a massive target on them. They only question is who else will end up getting burned with them.
[/quote]
Since you have got that big slobbering mouth up and running why don't you enlighten us as to what these so called practices are that we have returned to.

Really, no matter how hard you try to paint us as bad people it will never change the fact that you and your crew where lowly back stabbers when it came right down to it in regards to \m/ and Goons.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' date='12 March 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1268445673' post='2223878']
AirMe, I don't know what you're on, but when it wears off I suspect you'll be embarrassed by that.
[/quote]

The answer you are looking for is Yes. Already clarified. Londo knows I am not a fan of his policies and that it was just a bad analogy.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='12 March 2010 - 09:03 PM' timestamp='1268446125' post='2223885']
Echelon was famous for its own douchebag moves.
[/quote]

Heh, tru dat.

[Newhotness]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='12 March 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1268446535' post='2223893']
Since you have got that big slobbering mouth up and running why don't you enlighten us as to what these so called practices are that we have returned to.

Really, no matter how hard you try to paint us as bad people it will never change the fact that you and your crew where lowly back stabbers when it came right down to it in regards to \m/ and Goons.
[/quote]
very true. one might even say... [b]thick[/b]? *dr. evil smile*

Edited March 13, 2010 by Newhotness

[Neo Anglia]

[quote name='mythicknight' date='12 March 2010 - 09:18 PM' timestamp='1268447034' post='2223898']
Heh, tru dat.
[/quote]
C'mon Thick like we originated it? Really? I think we have both been around the playground long enough to know better. Not saying we didn't eff up in the past, and at times phenomenally, but it isn't like we were the standard bearer either.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Neo Anglia

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='12 March 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1268446535' post='2223893']
Since you have got that big slobbering mouth up and running why don't you enlighten us as to what these so called practices are that we have returned to.

Really, no matter how hard you try to paint us as bad people it will never change the fact that you and your crew where lowly back stabbers when it came right down to it in regards to \m/ and Goons.
[/quote]

Don't you know? It's okay to betray your allies if it saves your skin.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='AirMe' date='12 March 2010 - 04:32 PM' timestamp='1268440641' post='2223774']
Londo commenting on PC's honor is as funny as Hitler saying Ghengis Khan was a stand up and respectable guy.
[/quote]

Jesus christ Airme stfu!

You just made me almost spit soda and choke when I read this.

If I harm myself with laughter im going to want reps :v

[mythicknight]

[quote name='Neo Anglia' date='12 March 2010 - 09:28 PM' timestamp='1268447648' post='2223903']
C'mon Thick like we originated it? Really? I think we have both been around the playground long enough to know better. Not saying we didn't eff up in the past, and at times phenomenally, but it isn't like we were the standard bearer either.
[/quote]

Originated what now? I haven't read the this thread, just wanted to comment on Merrie's statement there