Ok, admit it, you spent the last few weeks watching Olympic Curling

[pezstar]

[quote name='Choader' date='10 March 2010 - 03:05 AM' timestamp='1268208639' post='2220774']

Right back at ya buddy, just know that you and your alliance have unfinished business with my friends and I. Have no doubt that we'll be getting intimate again soon enough.

[/quote]

Go ahead. I dare you.

[Kevin McDonald]

Good lord. Half of you surrendered/earned a surrender way too soon if you're still this pent up.

[StevieG]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='11 March 2010 - 02:07 PM' timestamp='1268273547' post='2221633']
Good lord. Half of you surrendered/earned a surrender way too soon if you're still this pent up.
[/quote]
Guess some dont have good enough WarChests

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='pezstar' date='11 March 2010 - 02:04 AM' timestamp='1268273411' post='2221631']
Go ahead. I dare you.
[/quote]

See folks, this is what friendship is all about. Can't fault STA for having thier friends back.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='kevin32891' date='11 March 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1268269519' post='2221562']
Yeah I don't think fighting for a week wasn't enough.
[/quote]
I don't think there is any amount of time at war or destruction that will cure this hatred.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='StevieG' date='10 March 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1268272837' post='2221618']
Relying solely on Wiki? That is preposterous. PC continued their research did they? Found the ex-leader? What about maybe going to SBAs forums? Surely that is not too much of a stretch.
[/quote]
Read what you're saying!
Why would anyone hunt down the forums of alliance they believe to be disbanded?

OOC:
The CN wiki shouldn't be treated like schools treat Wikipedia. It is the only central and unbiased source of information we have of CN history. People should take the time to maintain their pages.

[Caffine]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='10 March 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1268275551' post='2221667']
Read what you're saying!
Why would anyone hunt down the forums of alliance they believe to be disbanded?

OOC:
The CN wiki shouldn't be treated like schools treat Wikipedia. It is the only central and unbiased source of information we have of CN history. People should take the time to maintain their pages.
[/quote]

You can use a wiki if you follow the citations properly. However, there was a lack of any sources for such citation.

[Sargun II]

At first I laughed at how stupid the responses from PC and TGC were, and then I serious'd because they weren't joking.

This is sad.

[Kim Jaym Il]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='10 March 2010 - 11:10 PM' timestamp='1268275551' post='2221667']
Read what you're saying!
Why would anyone hunt down the forums of alliance they believe to be disbanded?

OOC:
The CN wiki shouldn't be treated like schools treat Wikipedia. It is the only central and unbiased source of information we have of CN history. People should take the time to maintain their pages.
[/quote]

Then they should check with the alliance that was supposedly the former protector.

If DT has a protectorate, and that protectorate merges into DT tomorrow, would you protect the AA from raids until the nations on it switched over or found a new home? That protectorate would probably also have a "Disbanded/Merged" tag on their wiki page. Does that mean they're now raid fodder despite still being protected by you?

[RePePe]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='10 March 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1268275551' post='2221667']
Read what you're saying!
Why would anyone hunt down the forums of alliance they believe to be disbanded?
[/quote]

Keyword being "believe." So you see one source of information (not including an ex-member which doesn't even count as a source), reliable or not, and you just stop there? And you consider this adequate research? Good luck writing a discourse with one source and being taken seriously.

[Vhalen]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='10 March 2010 - 09:32 PM' timestamp='1268275063' post='2221661']
I don't think there is any amount of time at war or destruction that will cure this hatred.
[/quote]
Well, if everyone involved disappeared, that'd do it. The more pages this grows to, the better that idea sounds, actually.

[quote name='MaGneT' date='10 March 2010 - 09:40 PM' timestamp='1268275551' post='2221667']
Read what you're saying!
Why would anyone hunt down the forums of alliance they believe to be disbanded?
[/quote]
Your point's no better than his.
Why would anyone check the wiki of an alliance they believed to be disbanded? Or for that matter, the bios? I mean, the AA already reads "Unaligned", right? Tada.

[Sakura]

[quote name='Caffine1' date='09 March 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1268190570' post='2220394']
Mushi, read the entire thread, you're showing your ignorance. The edit was made in February by Lol pie.
[/quote]

Lol pie's edit was *only* adding the merger box to the top -- that doesn't change the merger notice that was at the bottom for four and a half months.

[quote name='SnowCrash' date='10 March 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1268243760' post='2221057']
If you erased it and erased it from your public treaty list, you just created a case of entrapment. Which would nullify any potential compensation.
[/quote]

Which is essentially what happened with Echelon.

DrStrangelove1977 added two merger notices to SBA's wikia article on October 17th.
Several hours later, an anonymous editor I'll call "Mr. 88" removed one of the two merger notices that were just a few lines apart from each other. (Which to me looks like an edit for style).
Then, on February 6th, Lol pie added the merger box to the top.
And finally, on March 1st, "Mr. 66" (AKA Memoryproblems) deleted the merger box. Then a minute later deleted the merger notice from the bottom of the article.

DrStrangelove1977 is a member of Echelon. That, by extension, makes his *actions* (including, editing Wikia articles), Echelon's responsibility by extension.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='AirMe' date='10 March 2010 - 06:48 PM' timestamp='1268268827' post='2221535']
And just to lend some credence to my pattern theory:

Date of Echelon's exit from Karma......05 July 2009
Date of PC's SBA raid..................17 July 2009
Date of Echelon's exit from TOP War....18 February 2010
Date of PC's SBA raid..................28 February 2010
[/quote]

Don't forget PC's raid of California, a TPF protectorate while TPF was still in the Karma war. Definitely a pattern here.

But I will admit PC did their research, but it isn't the research everyone thinks. They researched not to find out if they actually had a protector, but to find enough info that they could justify raiding and paying no reps.

[StevieG]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='11 March 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1268275551' post='2221667']
Read what you're saying!
Why would anyone hunt down the forums of alliance they believe to be disbanded?

OOC:
The CN wiki shouldn't be treated like schools treat Wikipedia. It is the only central and unbiased source of information we have of CN history. People should take the time to maintain their pages.
[/quote]

The Wiki has never been used as an Official representation of alliance politics. If you dont wanna hunt down an alliances forums that you beleive to be disbanded from info gathered from the Wiki and an ex member, that is just plain lazy.

There is also a section here called Alliance Politics where Mergers, Disbandments, Treaties, and DoEs are posted. The last thread involving SBA here on these forums maintains that they are a current alliacne and have a current protectorate agreement with Echelon. If there is no Disbandment or Merger thread then things remain as they are.

That is not hard at all to fathom. Even for the most biased of you.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='10 March 2010 - 05:19 PM' timestamp='1268263460' post='2221395']
You know nothing of Corp to include us in a comment like that.
[/quote]


Yes he should, you have done nothing except what the rest have done in this thread and that is justify PC's actions.

[Kevin McDonald]

[quote name='Kilkenny' date='10 March 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1268277172' post='2221707']
Yes he should, you have done nothing except what the rest have done in this thread and that is justify PC's actions.
[/quote]
My comments in this thread, which by the way, have simply amounted to seeking answers, in no way takes away from the contributions the Corporation has made to helping alliances in distress.

I simply bristle at being painted with same brush as others, even if I happen to like or be friends or allies with those others.

[The Big Bad]

I don't care to go though this entire thing beyond the 1st page but I have to ask, who in the heck is running PC now? Where is Twist or someone who knows what they are doing? When people give you rope you don't use it to hang yourselves. I know people on both sides of this war already have plans post war for a couple other alliances that do stuff like this, are you looking to add yourselves to the list? Oh well kill yourselves if you want, just thought you were smarter than this.

Edited March 11, 2010 by The Big Bad

[abdur]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='10 March 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1268277743' post='2221712']
I don't care to go though this entire thing beyond the 1st page but I have to ask, who in the heck is running PC now? Where is Twist or someone who knows what they are doing? When people give you rope you don't use it to hang yourselves. I know people on both sides of this war already have plans post war for a couple other alliances that do stuff like this, are you looking to add yourselves to the list? Oh well kill yourselves if you want, just thought you were smarter than this.
[/quote]
Power corrupts, whaddya expect?

[MaGneT]

[quote name='StevieG' date='10 March 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1268277027' post='2221706']
The Wiki has never been used as an Official representation of alliance politics. If you dont wanna hunt down an alliances forums that you beleive to be disbanded from info gathered from the Wiki and an ex member, that is just plain lazy.

There is also a section here called Alliance Politics where Mergers, Disbandments, Treaties, and DoEs are posted. The last thread involving SBA here on these forums maintains that they are a current alliacne and have a current protectorate agreement with Echelon. If there is no Disbandment or Merger thread then things remain as they are.

That is not hard at all to fathom. Even for the most biased of you.
[/quote]
I've always used the Wiki as a primary source of information of anything that isn't on page 1 of AP. You cannot seriously be suggesting that raiders comb through pages of search results in order to ascertain whether or not their target is protected. The whole point of the Wiki is to avoid having to do that!

And please don't insinuate that I'm biased, if that's what you were doing. (If you're not, I apologize.) Even though DT has a MADP with PC, I've told them that I disagree with some things they've done (FoA, for example). In this situation, I genuinely believe that PC made an honest mistake.

[Neo Uruk]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='10 March 2010 - 09:17 PM' timestamp='1268277743' post='2221712']
I don't care to go though this entire thing beyond the 1st page but I have to ask, who in the heck is running PC now? Where is Twist or someone who knows what they are doing? When people give you rope you don't use it to hang yourselves. I know people on both sides of this war already have plans post war for a couple other alliances that do stuff like this, are you looking to add yourselves to the list? Oh well kill yourselves if you want, just thought you were smarter than this.
[/quote]
Twisted is actually still in charge.

[Kilkenny]

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='10 March 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1268277620' post='2221710']
I simply bristle at being painted with same brush as others, even if I happen to like or be friends or allies with those others.
[/quote]

Then stop mindlessly justifying their actions. The fact is PC screwed up, you have yet to come out and say that. You seem to figure pointing out Echelon's mistakes will cover up PC's mistake, not once, not twice but three times. Either everyone on Planet Bob is supposed to believe that PC is that stupid (doubt that very seriously) or is doing it on purpose because they can get away with it.

[Czar Aleksander]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='10 March 2010 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1268277743' post='2221712']
I don't care to go though this entire thing beyond the 1st page but I have to ask, who in the heck is running PC now? Where is Twist or someone who knows what they are doing? When people give you rope you don't use it to hang yourselves. I know people on both sides of this war already have plans post war for a couple other alliances that do stuff like this, are you looking to add yourselves to the list? Oh well kill yourselves if you want, just thought you were smarter than this.
[/quote]

Perhaps they know when to be quiet, and where to talk.

EDIT: incomplete sentences.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Czar Aleksander

[Stilgar]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='10 March 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1268278759' post='2221725']
I've always used the Wiki as a primary source of information of anything that isn't on page 1 of AP. You cannot seriously be suggesting that raiders comb through pages of search results in order to ascertain whether or not their target is protected. The whole point of the Wiki is to avoid having to do that!
[/quote]

Unless all alliances sign a document that says the Wiki can be considered official, it shouldn't. I do agree that people aren't supposed to sift through so much data when ascertaining treaties. However I think that the point of the wiki is to give an idea about the general state of affairs. When PC saw that the alliance had supposedly merged into Echelon, a quick query to Echelon .gov could have avoided all of this.

[StevieG]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='11 March 2010 - 03:34 PM' timestamp='1268278759' post='2221725']
I've always used the Wiki as a primary source of information of anything that isn't on page 1 of AP. You cannot seriously be suggesting that raiders comb through pages of search results in order to ascertain whether or not their target is protected. The whole point of the Wiki is to avoid having to do that!

And please don't insinuate that I'm biased, if that's what you were doing. (If you're not, I apologize.) Even though DT has a MADP with PC, I've told them that I disagree with some things they've done (FoA, for example). In this situation, I genuinely believe that PC made an honest mistake.
[/quote]
Going to the alliance in questions forums would be the best step to take and have a look at their treaties in their public section. If you beleive that the alliance is dead and disbanded then you should check with whomever they hold treaties with that is stated on their forums. That process would have lead to PC finding out that they werent in fact disbanded or merged, and were in fact protected by Echelon.

PC may have very well made an honest mistake here, I am not disagreeing with that. But reps would be a good way to atone for that mistake.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='StevieG' date='10 March 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1268279208' post='2221735']
PC may have very well made an honest mistake here, I am not disagreeing with that. But reps would be a good way to atone for that mistake.
[/quote]
I concur, actually. Let's hope this gets settled.
I'm just frustrated by the people who are insinuating that PC does this maliciously, ya know?