Official Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[Volgan]

I wish this new leader the best of luck.

Extricating TOP form the losing side of this war will be a real test for this new helmsperson.

[Some-Guy]

[quote name='TheNeverender' date='08 March 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1268075382' post='2218156']
tbqh, we're doing it for you. Just for you.
[/quote]

This is why we can't be friends.

[kencojenko]

[quote name='Some-Guy' date='08 March 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1268079394' post='2218214']
This is why we can't be friends.


[/quote]

I think you'll find that has more to do with the stench coming from your person.

[quote]
So, please stop talk about something you just read a few hours ago and did not experience from the inside...[/quote]

Even I lol'd.

[Seipher Caim]

Yeah... after talking with Titus Pullo, even I lol'd at what I wrote...

[jaaku]

[quote name='kencojenko' date='08 March 2010 - 10:13 AM' timestamp='1268061500' post='2218004']
I haven't been drunk since i started doing a large amount of FA work.
[/quote]
I have yet to be sober when doing FA work. If I'm going to lose IQ points, I might as well go all the way.

[Some-Guy]

[quote name='kencojenko' date='08 March 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1268080041' post='2218226']
I think you'll find that has more to do with the stench coming from your person.
[/quote]

Personal attack

Also, we'll sort out this war with a skype battle: Jenko vs Pingu - the absinthe challenge.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Some-Guy

[James Saams]

[quote]B. Emissary: The Emissary shall be the head [b]ambassador[/b] of Valhalla. The Emissary is responsible for creating diplomatic ties with foreign alliances, maintaining a diplomatic stance, and keeping suspected foreign threats under observation.[/quote]
Let us begin with the definition of ambassador.
[quote]am·bas·sa·dor
–noun
1. a diplomatic official of the highest rank, sent by one sovereign or state to another as its resident representative.
2. a diplomatic official of the highest rank sent by a government to represent it on a temporary mission, as for negotiating a treaty.
3. an authorized messenger or representative[/quote].
Now that we've achieved a basic understanding of what an ambassador does, lets examine this a bit further. This definition states that an ambassador is a representative, but what is a representative you ask?
[quote]
rep·re·sent·a·tive
–noun
1. a person or thing that represents another or others. [/quote]
Well obviously a representative represents us, but we still don't know what this action of "representing" is.
[quote]rep·re·sent
–verb
4. to speak and act for by delegated authority: to represent one's government in a foreign country.
5. to act for or in behalf of (a constituency, state, etc.) by deputed right in exercising a voice in legislation or government[/quote]
Now I believe that we have established that our emissary acts as the voice of Valhalla, thus giving him the power to make decisions on behalf of Valhalla, meaning that he does in fact have the power to handle a rogue case.

But let's not forget definition number two of ambassador. This states he has the power to negotiate a treaty, no? Alas, we don't know what a treaty is, so here we go again.

[quote]trea·ty
–noun
1. a formal agreement between two or more states in reference to peace, alliance, commerce, or other international relations.
2. the formal document embodying such an international agreement.
3. any agreement or compact.
[/quote]
Now obviously since our dear emissary has the power to negotiate treaties, as we established in the definition of "ambassador", we can assume through these definitions of "treaty" that he can create any formal agreement or compact. May I repeat "any" agreement or compact? This no doubt gives him the power to come to a cessation of hostilities agreement with the rogue that was attacking our alliance.

I would also like to point out to Titus Pullo that by no means is his grammar perfect. I have examined a few of your posts and have discovered many grammatical errors, so before insulting the competence of Valhalla and it's members, please study your own in great detail.

The jokes directed at Bob Sanders because of a quote nearing two years old is quite low, and does nothing other than show your complete lack of creativity. The others who are still using the age old "Failhalla" line have displayed the same lack of creativity and complete and utter idiocy. I would tell you to think before you speak, but judging by the lack of creativity in your previous posts, I doubt it would make much of a difference.

Despite my own differences with SkyGreenChick, I wish her luck in her new position, and hope that those issues I had with her will not become an problem during her time leading TOP. With that, I will take my leave from this thread.

[Pingu]

[quote name='Some-Guy' date='08 March 2010 - 04:35 PM' timestamp='1268084430' post='2218310']
Also, we'll sort out this war with a skype battle: Jenko vs Pingu - the absinthe challenge.
[/quote]

Give me plenipotentiary powers and a litre of whisky and I'll have it all sorted out by tomorrow.

[MadScotII]

[quote name='ajaxpenny' date='08 March 2010 - 07:20 AM' timestamp='1268033087' post='2217795']
And no Longbowe and Bob Sanders, you have it all wrong. They all came from Valhalla for me!
[/quote]

You didn't invite me....

[quote name='Seipher Caim' date='08 March 2010 - 11:21 AM' timestamp='1268047587' post='2217894']
ok... This is a TOP announcement concerning TOP gov...
Bob vocally made his point clear and I'll ask now every valhallan to remain civil.

I had the chance, yes the chance, to know Sky as her Emissary Deputy in Valhalla and I wish her luck in her new impressive job.
[/quote]

6 or so pages to late. Really, need to get a handle on the idiots that remain in Valhalla - although least it wasn't Hal failing against STA this time...

[quote name='Lord Boris' date='08 March 2010 - 07:14 PM' timestamp='1268075933' post='2218166']
Bob, while I usually don't have any issues with you, in this particular case I will make an exception to that.

Stop being a twit.
[/quote]

Thankfully I think he has stopped.


Goodluck SGC and all the others.

[kencojenko]

[quote name='Pingu' date='08 March 2010 - 09:53 PM' timestamp='1268085464' post='2218331']
Give me plenipotentiary powers and a litre of whisky and I'll have it all sorted out by tomorrow.
[/quote]

I would not be so sure of that. My personal best in a shot competition is a 350ml bottle of jack being consumed in under 5 minutes. Sure, the aftermath was not pretty, but when my drinking capabilities are challenged, you awaken something you cannot comprehend.

[Titus Pullo]

[quote name='James Saams' date='08 March 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1268085297' post='2218329']
Let us begin with the definition of ambassador.
.
Now that we've achieved a basic understanding of what an ambassador does, lets examine this a bit further. This definition states that an ambassador is a representative, but what is a representative you ask?

Well obviously a representative represents us, but we still don't know what this action of "representing" is.

[b]Now I believe that we have established that our emissary acts as the voice of Valhalla[/b], thus giving him the power to make decisions on behalf of Valhalla, meaning that he does in fact have the power to handle a rogue case.

But let's not forget definition number two of ambassador. This states he has the power to negotiate a treaty, no? Alas, we don't know what a treaty is, so here we go again.


Now obviously since our dear emissary has the [b]power to negotiate treaties[/b], as we established in the definition of "ambassador", we can assume through these definitions of "treaty" that he can create any formal agreement or compact. May I repeat "any" agreement or compact? This no doubt gives him the power to come to a cessation of hostilities agreement with the rogue that was attacking our alliance.
[b]
With that, I will take my leave from this thread.[/b]
[/quote]

Let's examine the two points you made. You did, indeed, prove that the Emissary represents Valhalla, just as is outlined with [b]maintaining a diplomatic stance[/b]. The real question, therefore, is: What is "Valhalla"? According to the same charter, "Valhalla" is the embodiment of the Regent. Therefore, the Emissary represents the Regent in foreign affairs, and nothing else.

On your second point, again you need to read your charter better. The Regent is "responsible for all facets of the alliance, including..., international politics, ..." Treaties fall under the purview of international politics and are therefore the sole responsibility of the Regent, or Vice Regent as per the Charter.

I understand that you wish to see your alliance as perfect in every way and dismiss the flaws pointed out by me as being simply the opinion of a misinformed idiot. However, I could not think of a more childish way to excuse yourself from seeing the truth and carrying on a true debate than your last sentence.

As such, I assume that you will read this post but not reply. That is fine with me as long as you go take a long hard look at your charter and figure out what it really means. I assure you that the results of this research will surprise you. The Regent of Valhalla is to be regarded as the omnipotent sovereign, don't let the false promise of democracy fool you.


P.S. Using quotes to emphasize a word, such as "any", is pathetic and improper.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Titus Pullo

[Some-Guy]

True story:

When drafting the amendment to our charter that created the Grand Legate position, we called it the Plenipotentiary.

Or rather, Bodvar did.

Litres of Whisky for all, I say!

[Melutar]

Good luck Sky I'm sure you'll do an amazing job!

o/ TOP

[Coursca]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='08 March 2010 - 01:16 PM' timestamp='1268072469' post='2218117']
I do not know Bob Sanders other than his posts on the forum. However this continuation of his written faux pas is tiresome.Address his posts with reason and forget the personal attacks, over a non-proofed comment.
A persons competence grows. Bob, you seem to not allow for this growth.
[/quote]

If the man wants to start with non-proofed character attacks, that's probably what he will get in return.

He's a big boy -- he knew what he was walking into making comments like he did.

[James Saams]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='08 March 2010 - 05:05 PM' timestamp='1268086217' post='2218354']
Let's examine the two points you made. You did, indeed, prove that the Emissary represents Valhalla, just as is outlined with [b]maintaining a diplomatic stance[/b]. The real question, therefore, is: What is "Valhalla"? According to the same charter, "Valhalla" is the embodiment of the Regent. Therefore, the Emissary represents the Regent in foreign affairs, and nothing else.

On your second point, again you need to read your charter better. The Regent is "responsible for all facets of the alliance, including..., international politics, ..." Treaties fall under the purview of international politics and are therefore the sole responsibility of the Regent, or Vice Regent as per the Charter.

I understand that you wish to see your alliance as perfect in every way and dismiss the flaws pointed out by me as being simply the opinion of a misinformed idiot. However, I could not think of a more childish way to excuse yourself from seeing the truth and carrying on a true debate than your last sentence.

As such, I assume that you will read this post but not reply. That is fine with me as long as you go take a long hard look at your charter and figure out what it really means. I assure you that the results of this research will surprise you. The Regent of Valhalla is to be regarded as the omnipotent sovereign, don't let the false promise of democracy fool you.


P.S. Using quotes to emphasize a word, such as "any", is pathetic and improper.
[/quote]
Nowhere in our beloved charter does it say that Valhalla is the "embodiment of the Regent." You also seem to have ignored the entire part pertaining to representation. As you stated above, the Emissary represents the Regent. If you re-read the definitions I so kindly gave to you, you might find that the fact that he represents the regent shows that he does in fact have the power to make decisions as the voice of the regent.

Now on to your second point. As you clearly quoted, the responsibilities of the regent include international politics. However, nowhere in our charter does it state that he is solely responsible for them. In fact it states something completely to the contrary:
[quote]The Einherjar, along with the Regent shall be the voice of the alliance and shall make all executive decisions, while adhering to the ideals of Valhalla.[/quote]
This sentence of Valhalla's charter clearly states that the Einherjar and the Regent share the power to make all executive decisions.

I do not believe Valhalla to be perfect, nor does any member of Valhalla. If Valhalla were perfect, why would we have an amendment section in our charter? A perfect alliance would not need one, leading me to the only logical conclusion, being that we in fact, do not believe we are perfect.

Moving on to my last line, I fail to see how politely leaving is childish. I simply did not wish to get involved in a completely off-topic debate. However, after reading your post I feel it is necessary to continue this conversation.

Now we get to the part where you state that the Regent of Valhalla is an "omnipotent sovereign." The only evidence I need to conclude that your statement is completely and utterly false is the existence of the Norn, and the removal of NoWedge from the position of Regent. Were the Regent an "omnipotent sovereign," that could not have happened.

Finally, in response to your attempt at insult, my usage of quotes is anything but improper, and I fail to see how it is pathetic.

[KingSuck]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='08 March 2010 - 10:05 PM' timestamp='1268086217' post='2218354']
stuff
[/quote]

Will all due respect, Bob Sanders simply made a claim that Sky wasn't a particularly good Emissary. I don't really see the need for this slightly pedantic attempt to prove (as fascinating as it is to read) that, as technically the regent is in charge of all facets of the alliance, every decision/failure must come down to him. Just because the Emissary represents the Regent in foreign affairs does not mean that the emissary is annulled of all responsibility for the handling of said affairs.

[Electron Sponge]

I agree with Bob Sanders

edit: The zergrush of white knights was pretty hilarious

Edited March 8, 2010 by Electron Sponge

[Voytek]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' date='09 March 2010 - 08:43 AM' timestamp='1268088514' post='2218407']
I agree with Bob Sanders
[/quote]

This is one for the record books.

[Pingu]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' date='08 March 2010 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1268088514' post='2218407']
I agree with Bob Sanders
[/quote]
You're fired

[Electron Sponge]

[quote name='Pingu' date='08 March 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1268088666' post='2218415']
You're fired
[/quote]
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME

[Coursca]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' date='08 March 2010 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1268088514' post='2218407']
I agree with Bob Sanders

edit: The zergrush of white knights was pretty hilarious
[/quote]

I see what you did there.

[Pingu]

[quote name='Electron Sponge' date='08 March 2010 - 05:48 PM' timestamp='1268088771' post='2218420']
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME
[/quote]
Says here in the secret charter of the New Orange Union aka shadow-ODN that Barpenguin > Viceroy. Also, I still have your llama.

[Bob Sanders]

[quote name='kencojenko' date='08 March 2010 - 05:17 AM' timestamp='1268047312' post='2217892']
Our 'very own shortbowe' is in no way connected to TOP except for his alliance being at war with the same alliances we are. You should know he is not a member of TOP and thus, i can not tell him to do anything without infringing on his sovereignty (see, we do learn our lessons). I'm afraid that to me, anyone that wishes to run for government (which is generally a large charitable contribution with little thanks) is a loyal member of an alliance. The fact your alliance continued to select her as a member of your government means that either you were a minority in not considering her loyal, or you had no other options. If the latter is true, maybe that is why she continued in the role?

You should also note that when Crymson was re-elected, our electorate was relatively uninformed about the Kronos/STA affair and the effect it had on relations with Kronos. I was our main point of contact at the time and i had some severe internet connectivity problems and thus could not keep tabs on the situation. Yes, that's a bad show on us that one member was the only real direct contact we had, but we have most definately learned from that mistake. The treaty was also cancelled post election, so the extent of any damage was not at that time clear.
[/quote]
Fair enough, I just assumed he was getting cute with his AA on here, I should have searched his nation. As for an uninformed electorate I think that applied in Sky's case too. It was primarily the people that were in the gov channel at the time that had a problem with her continuing as Emissary because we were the ones that she told about planning to leave etc. Our election rules are quite strict about negative campaigning so we weren't able to relay those concerns to the electorate. Another factor was that she is definitely friendly and appealing to people outside of gov positions hence the current defense of her in this thread.

[quote name='Coursca' date='08 March 2010 - 11:40 AM' timestamp='1268070287' post='2218094']
And I can't think of anyone less qualified to lead, well, much of anything.

Insert "did you Polar..." and "did you Bob Sanders..." comments here.
[/quote]
Yea, you are just another pathetic loser with no actual argument or content in your post. Go climb in your hole .

P.S. I'm not qualified to lead an alliance, I made that decision over two years ago when I joined Valhalla. I am qualified to lead a military and I have successfully but I don't want to put in that kind of time anymore.

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='08 March 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1268072469' post='2218117']
I do not know Bob Sanders other than his posts on the forum. However this continuation of his written faux pas is tiresome.Address his posts with reason and forget the personal attacks, over a non-proofed comment.
A persons competence grows. Bob, you seem to not allow for this growth.
[/quote]
That would be far too much to ask from the shoutdown style posters that have brought it up. Most of them post zero content related to the subject so cutting out the ad hominem attacks would mean they couldn't post at all. Its always fun to get a in a thread like this because it keeps my list of useless posters up to date.

Maybe she has grown, I guess we'll find out. [quote name='Titus Pullo' date='08 March 2010 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1268086217' post='2218354']
Let's examine the two points you made. You did, indeed, prove that the Emissary represents Valhalla, just as is outlined with [b]maintaining a diplomatic stance[/b]. The real question, therefore, is: What is "Valhalla"? According to the same charter, "Valhalla" is the embodiment of the Regent. Therefore, the Emissary represents the Regent in foreign affairs, and nothing else.

On your second point, again you need to read your charter better. The Regent is "responsible for all facets of the alliance, including..., international politics, ..." Treaties fall under the purview of international politics and are therefore the sole responsibility of the Regent, or Vice Regent as per the Charter.

I understand that you wish to see your alliance as perfect in every way and dismiss the flaws pointed out by me as being simply the opinion of a misinformed idiot. However, I could not think of a more childish way to excuse yourself from seeing the truth and carrying on a true debate than your last sentence.

As such, I assume that you will read this post but not reply. That is fine with me as long as you go take a long hard look at your charter and figure out what it really means. I assure you that the results of this research will surprise you. The Regent of Valhalla is to be regarded as the omnipotent sovereign, don't let the false promise of democracy fool you.


P.S. Using quotes to emphasize a word, such as "any", is pathetic and improper.
[/quote]
Chefjoe isn't a power mad micromanaging nitwit like noWedge, he allows the Einherjar to take care of basic situations such as this. Does that explain it? Planet Bob and Valhalla has evolved over time, a rogue incident from a nation at 1k NS is considered about as major as an embassy request anymore.

As far as democracy goes, I think Valhalla has a good balance. Having a permanent leader allows for a continuity in policy over time and makes an alliance a much more stable ally. I personally think that TOP's constant changes recently between Grandmasters with different philosophies was a large part of their current mess. Flipping a switch to a different FA policy every two months does not work. I would never join an alliance that elected a new leader every two months.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Bob Sanders

[DogeWilliam]

This is quite a shock. But, there is not a single person in TOP I have more confidence in for fulfilling governmental obligations than SGC. o/ TOP.

[Lord Levistus]

The Valhallan Charter debate is unneeded here.

Simply put, TOP's charter has a clear line of succession, and that line has placed Sky as Grandmaster for better or for worse.

What some Valhallans think about her qualifications is irrelevant.