More peace

[Aeternos Astramora]

I noticed how the alliances with the worst militaries asked for the most reps. Compensating for something?

[Ellis]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='28 February 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1267348524' post='2208044']
Here were NPO "terms" to Legion at one point:
Legion admits wrongdoing
Legion submits to authority of an NPO viceroy
[b]Legion relocates to Grey team (none)[/b]
Legion agrees to monthly payments in amounts to be determined (apparently 300 million PER WEEK according to Zhadum's post)
[b]Legion shall support Valhalla candidates on the Purple Senate.[/b]
[/quote]

How could Legion vote for candidates in the purple senate if they were on Grey team?

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='28 February 2010 - 02:58 AM' timestamp='1267347722' post='2208033']
Edit: In response to Yggdrasil who I apparently forgot to quote.

Fark was held at war for several months during a time in which the term "war chest" hadn't been invented yet and the typical war lasted a week, maybe two. They were held at war because they got a lot of members joining all at once and GOONS was afraid that Fark would be strong opposition. A WUT-sponsored alliance was then formed under Slayer99 who abandoned Fark and then spent the next several months telling everyone that Fark's government was corrupt and they should stop fighting and come joining TotalFark! instead. Then Fark got to pay reps to GOONS and Gen[M]ay and had a viceroy with complete veto-power over all Fark gov decisions installed with no end date.[/quote]

How is this pertinent to the Hegemony?

[quote]VE cancelled all of her treaties (being a WUT member at the time) to pursue an independent FA direction shortly after Great War III, with the understanding they'd remain friendly with their old allies. Bilrow, then Triumvir of GGA, decided he wanted to control Green so WUT promptly declared war on ther ex-ally and the war ended in VE's disbandment.[/quote]

I thought it was a recognized axiom of digiterra that no one could force you to disband.




[quote]FAN was known for having a literal shoot first, ask questions later attitude that terrorized most smaller alliances. Eventually that got them into trouble and WUT kicked them out and declared war on them the same day. Two months later they surrendered to NPO, decommed everything and stayed that way for several months until the terms were about to run out at which point 1V promptly redeclared on them for having to many people with soldier counts over 20% despite the terms explicitly stating that violators were to be dealt with individually and FAN was not responsible for anyone who didn't follow the terms. FAN was then held at war for two years.[/quote]

Yes, because they would not meet the terms of the NPO. The only terms they would accept was "White Peace".They stuck to their aims and came out of it a winner.


[quote]GATO had war declared on them for having let a gov member who had been banned back into gov under an assumed name that the alliance didn't know about unti months after left again. During the course of the war, it was decided that GATO had too many members in peace mode, so NPO declared that anyone who didn't exist peace mode within the week would be PZI'd.[/quote]

The winner gets to set the terms as many have said here. GATO accepted the terms rather than stay at war. Advice C&G speaks of every topic.

[Quote]Speaking of which, there used to be only one time of ZI list. Contrary to what is probably popular belief, it was not the modern ZI, but is currently called EZI. This wasn't an evil perpetratedby the ruling alliances. This was just normal punishment that many upstanding alliances did and nobody gave all that much thought to. Imagine living in a world where that is baseline normal. Now imagine that the people who have taken control are the ones who like playing the villains. In comparison to EZI being commonplace and not cosidered bad.[/quote]

This wasn't just a Hegemony action.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 02:34 AM' timestamp='1267342702' post='2207934']
Disingenous considering inflation, and you know what? The only people who could justify continuing their vengeance quest is NPO and Echelon. Everyone else got off with [i]nothing[/i] in that war. You haven't taken advantage of it, you've simply continued on the same path as pre-Karma only stripped of the authority/power Q gave you. Same people, same treaties, same sides.

You can't spit on your first chance and expect another.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Oh, how ridiculously petty are you? Look at yourselves. You still have the same people in government, and the same treaties, etc. Is that a crime? What would you have had them do? Become your puppets and grovel at your feet. Face it, they do not like you and did not want to be tied to you. They refused to fall under your influence and that is about it. How is that continuing on the same path? I haven't seen them start wars or do anything that they had done while in Q or aligned to it.

Bah, no use arguing with you. You're all petty hypocrites and quite frankly the day all your alliances burn will be a good one.[/color]

[Xiphosis]

[quote]The winner gets to set the terms as many have said here.[/quote]

So what is your point of contention, then?

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='28 February 2010 - 05:27 AM' timestamp='1267335038' post='2207658']
The bad luck?

No, you should choose /competent/ allies who don't make extremely stupid decisions or expect to end up up !@#$% creek without a paddle.
[/quote]

Punishing people because of their allies' stupidity - that is relatively decided by the winners of the war -, nice. You don't sound like a jerk at all.

Let me guess, the 82k tech MK was forced to pay to NPO was all justified (I mean, MK was afterall able to pay it) because MK made the extremely stupid decision of aligning itself, or remaining aligned that is, with Greenland Republic who, in their case, made the extremely stupid decision of aligning itself with the less than competetent FA wise New Polar Order (at the time, and apparently now too) and ended up taking a large beating because they stood by their friends?

Stop swimming in the mud Bob, you're better than that.

EDIT: No of course, we should all be a little more like Sparta who cancels two MDPs on their allies in the course of a losing war and then declare on their former allies once the cancellation period ends.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Lusitan

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 03:48 AM' timestamp='1267350690' post='2208068']
So what is your point of contention, then?
[/quote]
I did like GATO's terms. I did not like TOOL's terms.I do not like any terms that interfere with an alliance's internal functions. Reparations interfere with the internal financial mechanisms of any alliance that must pay reparations. I will not like reparations ever. Whether I am the winner or loser. I will even speak up if they are ever required of GOD. If I am ever the victor I will push for rebuilding funds for the vanquished from the winners.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Argin]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='27 February 2010 - 08:33 PM' timestamp='1267331836' post='2207509']
Congrats to TOOL, LOUD, LoSS, VE and RIA well done. MA and Nemesis are small nearly dead alliances so I can see why they would need reps to just survive. Sparta on the other hand seems to be as pathetic at peace as they are at war.
[/quote]


DID THIS JUST HAPPEN!?!

Also, congrats on peace TOOL. You guys fought very hard and I hope you enjoy this and recover quickly!

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='28 February 2010 - 02:05 AM' timestamp='1267351740' post='2208080']
I did like GATO's terms. I did not like TOOL's terms.I do not like any terms that interfere with an alliance's internal functions. Reparations interfere with the internal financial mechanisms of any alliance that must pay reparations. I will not like reparations ever. Whether I am the winner or loser. I will even speak up if they are ever required of GOD. If I am ever the victor I will push for rebuilding funds for the vanquished from the winners.
[/quote]

My confusion stems from your assertion that victors can set the terms and that's okay, but in the next breath saying reps are bad. Is that your exception? And why is banning someone from GATO less intrusive to their internal affairs than reparations?

[Co God Ben]

Lemme try to say everything in one post.

First of all, TOOL were a tougher opponent than I expected them to be, partially because of the coalition that went in on them being stretched from wars with TOP, IRON, Argent, VA and others, but also because TOOL had a lot more nations who were prepared for war than I expected. I'm accustomed to thinking of sanctioned alliances as bloated with cowards, but TOOL was not that (besides Nykon's boy).

And despite being kicked more than once from your public channel, I came to like the TOOL people I did talk to. I can see why your allies value you so much.

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' date='27 February 2010 - 11:26 PM' timestamp='1267331405' post='2207488']
Thank you to RIA, LoSS, VE and LOUD for not pursuing monetary reparations.
[/quote]
[quote name='The Big Bad' date='27 February 2010 - 11:33 PM' timestamp='1267331836' post='2207509']
Congrats to TOOL, LOUD, LoSS, VE and RIA well done. MA and Nemesis are small nearly dead alliances so I can see why they would need reps to just survive. Sparta on the other hand seems to be as pathetic at peace as they are at war.
[/quote]
[quote name='Duncan King' date='28 February 2010 - 12:23 AM' timestamp='1267334796' post='2207651']
First, it's nice to see another ally out of this war. Looking at these terms, it appears that although they mistakenly think that they are funny, RIA, LOSS, and LOUD, are actually stand up guys. Sparta, MA, and Nemesis, on the other hand, appear to be requiring reparations from TOOL even though they piled on an already heavily engaged alliance.

Oh well.
[/quote]

Things like this make me wish we demanded reps. I don't care for LOSS' name to be used as a rhetorical tool to try to shame any of our friends. We know you hate us, don't pretend otherwise just for your drone-like owf propaganda war. Seriously, screw off.


Delta speaks the truth. These terms aren't anything that can compare to the old way of doing things. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=33384"]Compare[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=34051"]if[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=32875"]you[/url] [url="http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showtopic=62606&st=0"]wish[/url].



[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='27 February 2010 - 11:34 PM' timestamp='1267331865' post='2207511']
Kudos to the alliances who are not !@#$%*^ and willing to request reps. To the rest of you, *roll eyes*.
[/quote]
Oh, you

Edited February 28, 2010 by Co God Ben

[Hymenbreach]

Not surprised that Sparta won the war but lost the peace. I can imagine some people from all sides of the bar fight will be knocking on their door before the year is out.

Oh and Karma: Worst Revolution Ever. Yeah, the Heg gave awful terms but the point of Karma was to get rid of all awful terms, not just to get rid of terms as bad as NPO's worst terms.


Oh yeah, yet more humiliation terms in this too. Hateful.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Hymenbreach

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 04:10 AM' timestamp='1267352022' post='2208085']
My confusion stems from your assertion that victors can set the terms and that's okay, but in the next breath saying reps are bad. Is that your exception? And why is banning someone from GATO less intrusive to their internal affairs than reparations?
[/quote]

The Karma War ended all interference in internal alliance matters except reparations or am I wrong? All interference with the internal structure of an alliance is bad, including reps. If the Karma War had not put an end to this I would mention those. Since reps are all that is left from the bad tyranny days they are the one I wish also to end.

Accepted terms must be done. But I hold a modicum of hope that others would see that reps are another alliance's
butting in the losing alliance matters and end the practice in the future; or better yet, forgive the reparations.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Yggdrazil

[Vespassianus]

Most guys can be honorable, but a small half dead alliance called MA can always give you surprises. Not talking about their initial offer (30k huh?). I don't get it simply what you think about yourself.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Vespassianus

[Style #386]

Wow, the !@#$%*ing and moaning going on in here is just priceless, and the blatant hypocrisy is simply astounding. Are your collective memories so short? 800m? So !@#$@#$ what? Myself and dozen or so buddies in ODN have sent out that much aid over the course of the last month.

Faced with the option of either being too stupid to rationalize how aid slots work, or that you're simply twisting what is actually a very light term to suit your rather transparent agendas, which is it? Both, perhaps?

I know that at this point I shouldn't be surprised by you people, but you keep outdoing yourselves.

[Acca Dacca]

Good luck to all involved alliances

[quote name='Delta1212' date='28 February 2010 - 03:19 AM' timestamp='1267348998' post='2208050']
My other option would be to sit here and listen to people claiming that they are as bad or worse than the Hegemony, despite the fact that this is objectively false. If people don't want to invite period relativism then they need to stop invoking it.
[/quote]

You must post more on Sunday mornings. The paper isnt here yet, and there is nothing left on this announcement worth reading.

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Vespassianus' date='28 February 2010 - 04:36 AM' timestamp='1267353594' post='2208098']
Most guys can be honorable, but a small half dead alliance called MA can always give you surprises. Not talking about their initial offer (30k huh?). I don't get it simply what you think about yourself.
[/quote]

surprises hide around every corner

Edited February 28, 2010 by CptGodzilla

[o-dog]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 05:59 AM' timestamp='1267336999' post='2207724']
Be happy, TOOL. You'll never see terms this light in the future. I will promise that.
[/quote]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 06:02 AM' timestamp='1267337167' post='2207729']
Your alliance has been overall pathetic for years. You had TheBigBad in government for how long? You're the last person who can talk, mhawk. You've lost every war you've overseen for TPF and you remain a bitter loser. Keep sucking those lemons.
[/quote]

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='28 February 2010 - 07:24 AM' timestamp='1267342101' post='2207908']
Call me evil if you'd like, but I fully intend on hanging people from the gates if they continue. You guys have been warned well in advance.
[/quote]

I'd recommend a long look in the mirror to see if you can recognise the obnoxious one with an inflated sense of worth.

---------------------

Good luck TOOL. May you grow back stronger than before, along with your allies and the aliies of your allies.

o7

Edited February 28, 2010 by O-Dog

[Augustus Autumn]

Well this is a shame as far as the amounts asked for. Then again, so was the whole war so I guess consistency is a good thing.

/s/

Hermann Hoth

[SpiderJerusalem]

I agree with the reps that LoSS and RIA demanded...

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='28 February 2010 - 04:47 AM' timestamp='1267350658' post='2208067']
[color="#0000FF"]Oh, how ridiculously petty are you? Look at yourselves. You still have the same people in government, and the same treaties, etc. Is that a crime? What would you have had them do? Become your puppets and grovel at your feet. Face it, they do not like you and did not want to be tied to you. They refused to fall under your influence and that is about it. How is that continuing on the same path? I haven't seen them start wars or do anything that they had done while in Q or aligned to it.

Bah, no use arguing with you. You're all petty hypocrites and quite frankly the day all your alliances burn will be a good one.[/color]
[/quote]

How about asking them to not blidly support wars of aggression? Is that too much to ask?

[quote name='Hymenbreach' date='28 February 2010 - 05:22 AM' timestamp='1267352764' post='2208092']
Oh and Karma: Worst Revolution Ever. Yeah, the Heg gave awful terms but the point of Karma was to get rid of all awful terms, not just to get rid of terms as bad as NPO's worst terms.
[/quote]


I love how people keep trying to assert what Karma was for, like the rest of us weren't there or something, it amuses me. It amuses me even more since anybody who ever brings it up is invariably trying to use it to their own ends. It ends up with the Hat Trick since they usually get it wrong.

Karma was about throwing down the NPO and the Hegemony they had created. After that, you have to start asking individuals what it meant to them, because we didn't all fight for the same things.

PS, all terms are awful, you think anybody was ever [i]happy[/i] about paying reparations? Think before picking up the party line. Karma ended crushing terms, because most of us have been on the receiving end of those, we know what its like and don't want to inflict it on others. Meanwhile the rest of you bawwww like its the end of the world when simple cash payments appear in terms. Get a grip.

We went through the exact same song and dance with NPO's terms, "we're so evil, bawww, hypocrite, bawww, Draconian, bawwww" and you know what? The answer is still the same;

These are fair terms because of the things you don't see.

No wonder decom, no team switching, no indefinite payments, no government changes, no charter rewrites, no expulsions, no disbandment demand, no PZI for peace mode people, and shockingly enough no indefinite duration of wars.

And the list goes on. Its not what we do that makes us better than those we oppose, its what we don't do.

Oh and lest we forget, starting a war on a flimsy CB and still demanding reps after a curb stomp, that's the best part.

So go ahead keep crying about cash, because clearly these terms are the worst to every be posted to the OWF right?

[Uhtred]

My condolences to TOOL, extortion like this is pathetic. You know where to find us should you need anythng.

[Vespassianus]

[quote name='CptGodzilla' date='28 February 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1267354494' post='2208106']
surprises hide around every corner
[/quote]

I shouldn't be surprised on maroon, RIA can say no thanks for the reps while someone wanna extort ridicolous amount of tech considering their role on the battlefield.

[Scorponok]

MA and Sparta you disgust me.

Have fun.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='28 February 2010 - 05:57 AM' timestamp='1267354837' post='2208110']
How about asking them to not blidly support wars of aggression? Is that too much to ask?[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Grow a spine and quit complaining. TOOL was supporting its allies, much like several of the alliances demanding "compensation" here have done countless times in the past. I won't argue the specifics of the war since they're irrelevant. Just know that you all have often supported your own allies' aggression and felt it perfectly justifiable. Seems to be that as it was under the NPO, it does not matter what is done, but simply who does it.[/color]

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='28 February 2010 - 05:03 AM' timestamp='1267355210' post='2208116']
[color="#0000ff"]Grow a spine and quit complaining. TOOL was supporting its allies, much like several of the alliances demanding "compensation" here have done countless times in the past. I won't argue the specifics of the war since they're irrelevant. Just know that you all have often supported your own allies' aggression and felt it perfectly justifiable. Seems to be that as it was under the NPO, it does not matter what is done, but simply who does it.[/color]
[/quote]

Grow a spine and quit complaining. TOOL accepted these terms.