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[quote name='Chalaskan' date='24 February 2010 - 10:00 AM' timestamp='1267005810' post='2201203']
It's called Karma...O wai!
[/quote]

Nah, karma or hegemony, they're just the same, the victors.
if you want your opinions to be matters, Win the war or fight an eternal war :)

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[quote name='Kryievla' date='24 February 2010 - 02:27 AM' timestamp='1267000236' post='2201144']
They appear to find that term (beer review) degrading. Did your alliance not fight a war (alongside FARK I might add) in part to end humiliating terms?
[/quote]

I can answer this (as it has been answered numerous times in numerous recent threads). The Karma War was fought because most on the Karma side came to the conclusion that it was a do-or-die war. If any of the remaining non-Hegemony large alliances fell, the rest would be unable to defend themselves against the Hegemony and they would all eventually fall like dominoes. Did they all feel this way? No, but most did. And they were so sure of themselves that alliances that previously could not get along bit the bullet because they had no other choice.

These winning alliances elected not to give humiliating terms because they aren't ___holes - not because it was a grand crusade to end war consequences. And I hate to break it to you, but [i]any[/i] terms are humiliating terms because it's being forced to do something you typically would not do because you can't defend yourself.

My advice? Drink a beer. Review it. Don't want my advice? Boo hoo, nobody feels bad for you; they gave you an easy out.

Edited by Krack
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[quote name='gantanX' date='24 February 2010 - 01:08 AM' timestamp='1267006308' post='2201209']
Nah, karma or hegemony, they're just the same, the victors.
if you want your opinions to be matters, Win the war or fight an eternal war :)
[/quote]

Personally, at this point...I am in favor of the latter. :)

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[quote name='Kryievla' date='24 February 2010 - 02:27 AM' timestamp='1267000236' post='2201144']
They appear to find that term (beer review) degrading. Did your alliance not fight a war (alongside FARK I might add) in part to end humiliating terms?
[/quote]
That was not The Commonwealth's reasoning for fighting the war. Our allies were on the side of Karma, so we were on the side of Karma. And, I'd argue that a beer review is no more degrading than having to put up with post after post from the general mouth breathers at NSO about how The Commonwealth is a horrible failure of an alliance. Ivan Moldavi being one of the few exceptions from the Sith that hasn't shown outright aggression and contempt for The Commonwealth, starting even before they decided to declare on us as a token to STA.

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[quote name='Leigon' date='24 February 2010 - 06:58 AM' timestamp='1266994943' post='2200990']
Well, the thing is Polar wasn't fighting Fark. Otherwise they'd probably be writing a beer review right about now. Fark has always been fairly minded in their terms. Write a beer review and alls forgiven. So in essence you are being granted white peace with the addition of one fun term. It's not like we're forcing anything horrible unto you and I doubt you will get any better terms than this. And thosse terms we're open since polar left the first time.

Polar got white peace, you say? Well, bad luck you're fighting Fark.
[/quote]

STA fought Fark and gave no beer review.

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[quote name='Crowdog' date='24 February 2010 - 04:35 AM' timestamp='1267004330' post='2201186']
From page 4 and still incredibly truthful. NpO had no good reason not to accept peace. NSO is clearly in it for IRON and have been for the past 2 weeks.
[/quote]

NSO is in to get its ally peace, the same reason Polar was. I don't think you get a get out of war free card, just because its not easy. Honestly this move has done more to damage Polar than any war ever could.

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So when we attacked God and in turn got hit by VE and Co. Ivan was all like "why r u even bothering, thats not helping us...." They have an opportunity for beer review peace with a health food review in return from Fark but they r like Nooooo. So then we r like wtf aye? we fight sum moar an IVan is like "really whut r yall doin?" So we have peace with VE an God an them so we kin fight on Top and suddenly they r all like WTF?! slack! bad allies, u guyz suk an stuff.
an whats also funny is people at one point were like, "durr ur not even fightin top, only 1 nation" and we are like kablooie with VE an them guyz, kerrpew, blam, whoosh. Pigs an monkeys flyn thru the air an now its like "dey dint even fight wit VE, dey took their 3 k nukes to top an wuznt even helpin dem Darth fellas, man dats sum crap an stuff"
I know I blew the crap out of 1 \M/ guy, jumped by too PC guyz an we bloodied it up good, then I fought sum VE an God an sum other guy and we all blew the crap out of each other an now Im fightin Top.
My question is who else do we have to fight to prove we dont care about our own infra? My nation aint hifalutin, sippin sherry wine an livin high. I want to defend de Sith an wish dey would get out but he dont like beer so i dunno.
So enyway thats all I got to say about that.
Hail the orders and I hope we all git our s*%t in one bag soon and have a pig roast or sumthin.

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[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1267009083' post='2201232']
So when we attacked God and in turn got hit by VE and Co. Ivan was all like "why r u even bothering, thats not helping us...." They have an opportunity for beer review peace with a health food review in return from Fark but they r like Nooooo. So then we r like wtf aye? we fight sum moar an IVan is like "really whut r yall doin?" So we have peace with VE an God an them so we kin fight on Top and suddenly they r all like WTF?! slack! bad allies, u guyz suk an stuff.
an whats also funny is people at one point were like, "durr ur not even fightin top, only 1 nation" and we are like kablooie with VE an them guyz, kerrpew, blam, whoosh. Pigs an monkeys flyn thru the air an now its like "dey dint even fight wit VE, dey took their 3 k nukes to top an wuznt even helpin dem Darth fellas, man dats sum crap an stuff"
I know I blew the crap out of 1 \M/ guy, jumped by too PC guyz an we bloodied it up good, then I fought sum VE an God an sum other guy and we all blew the crap out of each other an now Im fightin Top.
My question is who else do we have to fight to prove we dont care about our own infra? My nation aint hifalutin, sippin sherry wine an livin high. I want to defend de Sith an wish dey would get out but he dont like beer so i dunno.
So enyway thats all I got to say about that.
Hail the orders and I hope we all git our s*%t in one bag soon and have a pig roast or sumthin.
[/quote]

Can someone translate this for me please? The Crown Prince is from a generation where the English language looked far different from the text I have quoted.

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[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1267009083' post='2201232']
So when we attacked God and in turn got hit by VE and Co. Ivan was all like "why r u even bothering, thats not helping us...." They have an opportunity for beer review peace with a health food review in return from Fark but they r like Nooooo. So then we r like wtf aye? we fight sum moar an IVan is like "really whut r yall doin?" So we have peace with VE an God an them so we kin fight on Top and suddenly they r all like WTF?! slack! bad allies, u guyz suk an stuff.
an whats also funny is people at one point were like, "durr ur not even fightin top, only 1 nation" and we are like kablooie with VE an them guyz, kerrpew, blam, whoosh. Pigs an monkeys flyn thru the air an now its like "dey dint even fight wit VE, dey took their 3 k nukes to top an wuznt even helpin dem Darth fellas, man dats sum crap an stuff"
I know I blew the crap out of 1 \M/ guy, jumped by too PC guyz an we bloodied it up good, then I fought sum VE an God an sum other guy and we all blew the crap out of each other an now Im fightin Top.
My question is who else do we have to fight to prove we dont care about our own infra? My nation aint hifalutin, sippin sherry wine an livin high. I want to defend de Sith an wish dey would get out but he dont like beer so i dunno.
So enyway thats all I got to say about that.
[b]Hail the orders[/b] and I hope we all git our s*%t in one bag soon and have a pig roast or sumthin.
[/quote]
I'm confused by your post, but I agree with the bolded part.

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[quote name='Tygaland' date='24 February 2010 - 05:58 AM' timestamp='1267009337' post='2201233']
Can someone translate this for me please? The Crown Prince is from a generation where the English language looked far different from the text I have quoted.
[/quote]

I got nothing. I was about to ask for a translation as well, and I teach English to Chinese children.

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[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 05:54 AM' timestamp='1267009083' post='2201232']
So when we attacked God and in turn got hit by VE and Co. Ivan was all like "why r u even bothering, thats not helping us...." They have an opportunity for beer review peace with a health food review in return from Fark but they r like Nooooo. So then we r like wtf aye? we fight sum moar an IVan is like "really whut r yall doin?" So we have peace with VE an God an them so we kin fight on Top and suddenly they r all like WTF?! slack! bad allies, u guyz suk an stuff.
an whats also funny is people at one point were like, "durr ur not even fightin top, only 1 nation" and we are like kablooie with VE an them guyz, kerrpew, blam, whoosh. Pigs an monkeys flyn thru the air an now its like "dey dint even fight wit VE, dey took their 3 k nukes to top an wuznt even helpin dem Darth fellas, man dats sum crap an stuff"
I know I blew the crap out of 1 \M/ guy, jumped by too PC guyz an we bloodied it up good, then I fought sum VE an God an sum other guy and we all blew the crap out of each other an now Im fightin Top.
My question is who else do we have to fight to prove we dont care about our own infra? My nation aint hifalutin, sippin sherry wine an livin high. I want to defend de Sith an wish dey would get out but he dont like beer so i dunno.
So enyway thats all I got to say about that.
Hail the orders and I hope we all git our s*%t in one bag soon and have a pig roast or sumthin.
[/quote]

GOD had barely any wars with us, if NpO really wanted to help they would of declared on Fark who we had the most wars going on with us at the time.

To clarify further why it didn't make sense for us to surrender and Ivan not to accept the terms at the time was it would of made no sense for us to be the only alliance surrendering when \m/ was supposedly putting an end to the war by going along with NpO's demands. FOK the one we declared on entering this war gave us white peace and has moved on to declare on almost everyone else in what they consider a separate war, Fark insisted on a surrender in what ended for everyone else ended in white peace or even a victory for NpO considering their demands were met. Not sure on everything your saying but hopefully that clears it up.

There is a difference between white peace and a surrender without reparations involved.

Edited by Methrage
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NpO attacked God in defense of NSO and in turn VE et al declared on us, the NSO seemed rather dismissive of our efforts and questioned why we even bothered. They had an opportunity for peace by giving a beer review and recieving a health food review in return, they declined. We were puzzled but continued to fight lustily with GOd,VE and Co and the continued vibe from NSO is "thanks but no thanks, we are in untill IRon gets peace, sorry". We make peace with VE et al (since it was of no help to NSO per their comunication) so as to concentrate on Top and suddenly it seems everyone is aghast that we "abandoned" NSO.
Why some have even said we ignored God-VE with our 3k nukes and only fought Top (this of course after all the griping about only 1 Polar nation declaring on Top in the beginning). My nation has personally been to war with \M/, Poison Clan, VE, God, Misfits and now TOp. It was a good show by all nations involved with some taking more damage and some giving. Well done chaps! So I ponder, who do we have to fight so that it is known that this wasnt done to somehow elevate or position the NpO? My nation has taken a pounding but still survives and hopes beyond hope that the orders can be close again and eat cake.
Better?
(my mom helped me with it)

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[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 11:16 AM' timestamp='1267010428' post='2201247']
NpO attacked God in defense of NSO and in turn VE et al declared on us, the NSO seemed rather dismissive of our efforts and questioned why we even bothered. They had an opportunity for peace by giving a beer review and recieving a health food review in return, they declined. We were puzzled but continued to fight lustily with GOd,VE and Co and the continued vibe from NSO is "thanks but no thanks, we are in untill IRon gets peace, sorry". We make peace with VE et al (since it was of no help to NSO per their comunication) so as to concentrate on Top and suddenly it seems everyone is aghast that we "abandoned" NSO.
Why some have even said we ignored God-VE with our 3k nukes and only fought Top (this of course after all the griping about only 1 Polar nation declaring on Top in the beginning). My nation has personally been to war with \M/, Poison Clan, VE, God, Misfits and now TOp. It was a good show by all nations involved with some taking more damage and some giving. Well done chaps! So I ponder, who do we have to fight so that it is known that this wasnt done to somehow elevate or position the NpO? My nation has taken a pounding but still survives and hopes beyond hope that the orders can be close again and eat cake.
Better?
(my mom helped me with it)
[/quote]

Much better, thank you.

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[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1267010869' post='2201251']I would love to declare on Fark in defense of my NSO brothers and as a sovereign nation reserve the right to do that.
Hail the Sith!
[/quote]

I enjoy catchphrases so I feel no shame in saying This Will End Well. :facepalm:

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[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' date='24 February 2010 - 06:34 AM' timestamp='1266993469' post='2200876']
@ All the posts about UPN
To be fair to UPN I believe that quote was taken out of context, I'd provide the exact point of reference, but unfortunately I no longer have access to the leadership forums on the Purple Unity boards. However, I will agree that UPN, in particular Altheus, have generally just had piss poor conduct throughout this whole thing and I hope that many cancellations will soon follow. PeggySue, their then MoFA was strongly pushing for them to enter the conflict in defense of Legion and Invicta, and then she suddenly lost her position as MoFA overnight and thats the last I ever heard about them entering the conflict. I think that speaks a lot about the UPN and the !@#$%^&* being pulled within their walls.
[/quote]

The quote was indeed taken out of context and was in fact said far before this series of wars started. It was in reference to would we use a CB in a losing situation (we wouldn't) and not about an existing war in which we had commitments to get involved.
Peggy didn't lose her position overnight, she stepped down. I actually wanted her to stay on. Either way Peggy has UPN cabinet access, remains a very key figure in the alliance and we'd be stuffed without her.

[quote name='Crymson']Various criticisms aimed at UPN[/quote]

Not being funny, but shouldn't I be angry at you, not the other way round? You're the one that pre-empted a UPN MDoAP partner without a CB after all, which put us in this aweful mess.

Believe it or not we did what we thought to be the lesser of numerous evils. Because of the pre-empt is was always going to be impossible to do right by everyone and so we put it to the membership. What this isn't though is an attempt to save our own skins. Beyond finding it distasteful, we're far-sighted enough to know that we're just delaying bigger troubles later down the line. It would be cleverer to fight now, take our licks and not have half the cyberverse screaming abandonment & dreaming of a future curbstomp.
It's a big pit and we've jumped right into it, but we've done it self-consciously knowing that we're likely to get mass cancelled and trodden on. Neither would I blame anyone who did cancel, it's not their fault that UPN has treaty conflict issues and not their fault that TOP/IRON pre-empted ODN.

Thanks for the words of support by various people on this thread and also on IRC. I feel like we don't deserve your support sometimes, but know that it's not through cowardice, but trying to have too many friends.

Edited by Altheus
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[quote name='Altheus' date='24 February 2010 - 05:30 AM' timestamp='1267011239' post='2201256']
[b]we're just delaying bigger troubles later down the line. It would be cleverer to fight now, take our licks and not have half the cyberverse screaming abandonment & dreaming of a future curbstomp.[/b][/quote]

What a way to wake up, this is better than a morning romp with the ole lady, then again my priority's are a little out of whack.

A++ thread. :D

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[quote name='Tavish' date='24 February 2010 - 12:16 PM' timestamp='1267010428' post='2201247']
NpO attacked God in defense of NSO and in turn VE et al declared on us, the NSO seemed rather dismissive of our efforts and questioned why we even bothered. They had an opportunity for peace by giving a beer review and recieving a health food review in return, they declined. We were puzzled but continued to fight lustily with GOd,VE and Co and the continued vibe from NSO is "thanks but no thanks, we are in untill IRon gets peace, sorry". We make peace with VE et al (since it was of no help to NSO per their comunication) so as to concentrate on Top and suddenly it seems everyone is aghast that we "abandoned" NSO.
Why some have even said we ignored God-VE with our 3k nukes and only fought Top (this of course after all the griping about only 1 Polar nation declaring on Top in the beginning). My nation has personally been to war with \M/, Poison Clan, VE, God, Misfits and now TOp. It was a good show by all nations involved with some taking more damage and some giving. Well done chaps! So I ponder, who do we have to fight so that it is known that this wasnt done to somehow elevate or position the NpO? My nation has taken a pounding but still survives and hopes beyond hope that the orders can be close again and eat cake.
Better?
(my mom helped me with it)
[/quote]You have some valid points and I really like your style, well done ;)

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