Official Announcement from the Grand Global Alliance

[Virillus]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='26 February 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1267211198' post='2205171']
When the $%&@ was this?
[/quote]

Surprisingly enough, Ejay, all relevant CN history did not start the moment you joined the game.


[quote name='Pedron Niall' date='26 February 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1267211288' post='2205174']
Give this man a medal. He's right.
[/quote]

I'll just ask you to reference the reply I gave Ejayrazz.

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='26 February 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1267217764' post='2205291']
Back in the day of Kevin the Great
[/quote]

Him for one, as well as Prodigial Chieftain.

From the time before GWI untill the period directly after it, GGA was an awesome, efficient, fully functioning alliance and devoted ally. However, they ditched their allies for greener pastures and have lived in scorn ever since.

[Vladimir]

[quote name='Virillus' date='26 February 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1267218238' post='2205301']Prodigial Chieftain [...] fully functioning[/quote]
Surely you jest.

[Flonker]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='22 February 2010 - 09:51 AM' timestamp='1266857718' post='2197417']
People crying about these guys posting like GGA trium are hilarious since most of you were totally cool with my right to the King of Purple.
[/quote]

Funny, I never voted for you...

[Ejayrazz]

edited. not worth it.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Ejayrazz

[Stumpy Jung Il]

[quote name='Flonker' date='27 February 2010 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1267292408' post='2206690']
Funny, I never voted for you...
[/quote]
I guess thats why its called a [i]monarchy.[/i]

[New Frontier]

[quote name='Virillus' date='26 February 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1267218238' post='2205301']
Surprisingly enough, Ejay, all relevant CN history did not start the moment you joined the game.




I'll just ask you to reference the reply I gave Ejayrazz.



Him for one, as well as Prodigial Chieftain.

From the time before GWI untill the period directly after it, GGA was an awesome, efficient, fully functioning alliance and devoted ally. However, they ditched their allies for greener pastures and have lived in scorn ever since.
[/quote]
I don't agree with you often, but I do here.

As much as I didn't get along with PC, he was a pretty cool character for the game.

[NewPoseidon]

I'll get straight to the point for the good of those who're too lazy to read whole paragraphs: I oppose this move pragmatically and morally, and I think it's time to resign from the GGA.

The second I heard of the coming coup (pathetically from a ruler outside the GGA) I knew I'd probably be leaving. But I decided to hang on for a few days so as not to be a part of some kind of rout. I've enjoyed blowing up about 26 nukes over GGA enemies and also enjoyed inhaling the radiation of (I'm guessing) somewhere from 25-30 nukes, including exactly 11 in the last war. I've been a member for 595 days. I'll keep the GGA AA until it reaches an even 600 for old time's sake and then lower the GGA flag. Which flag will replace it, I'm not sure, though I promise it'll have some green on it. In the future I'll try to buy tech from GGA members when possible and post encouragement to GGA announcements that deserve it.

As many have said, there was a vote in which a "new" GGA under dementual was clearly voted down. That in itself makes dementual's coup dishonorable. That the charter clearly outlaws coups only adds to this conclusion. The whole thing seems rather sans-cojones. Coups by stealth are often the sign of inherit weakness. If these people didn't have admin powers over the old forum the whole thing would've never happened in the first place, and their plans would've vanished like a fart in the wind.

Prior to the last war, serious progress was made in regards to the GGA forums. Forums are -as we all know- the backbone of an alliance, the means by which strength is taught, nurtured, and coordinated. Moving to a new forum FOR THE THIRD TIME since I've joined shakes up an alliance's organization and morale, as we all have to scramble to determine what tech circles and military squads we're all in. Libraries of data are lost. It gives members a foreboding sense of starting from scratch when you enter a forum and see "1 topic, 1 reply" repeated across your screen. And though we're not a war, my bet is that there are several alliances out there that would love to pounce on us if they thought they could get away with it. As such, a chaotic coup and moving to an empty forum is......dangerous (I'm being polite with that adjective). At the very least they should've waited until a few weeks after the war ended, so that nations which were hit hard, bill-locked, or in nuclear anarchy could get back on their feet.

I fully respect anyone who stays, as it's completely possible my alliance can recover. I'll leave the GGA with the following advise: the ordering principle of GGA's problems is the sheer hatred planet Bob has for it, as such hatred ensures all GGA nations will end up permanently triple-teamed by eager enemies whenever we war. I suggest you do what it takes to ally with a series of growing alliances and slowly earn respect by acting with courage.

A few other comments of mine have been privately communicated to GGA's leaders.

As for those who are leaving, I hope to contact you, or be contacted. Perhaps former GGA'ers can move as a bloc to another green sphere alliance? Just thinking outloud. It would be nice to see some of the same names and avatars in my new home.

For the record [color="#008000"][size="4"][b]I don't regret joining[/b][/size][/color], and [size="4"][color="#008000"][b]all you lolGGA'ers can kiss, lick and bite my shiny metal nuke.[/b][/color][/size]

[i]Fortuna Fortes Juvat[/i]

[Mussolandia]

Well done, Brookbank and all... you've successfully driven a number of recognizable GGA names from their home.

[Mussolandia]

[quote name='Vladimir' date='26 February 2010 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1267220241' post='2205343']
Surely you jest.
[/quote]

Ex-League people continue to believe it was PC's removal that challenged the efficiency of the alliance. GGA achieved its peak of influence, in my opinion, during the Green crisis of early 2007. That is, a long time after he had been removed. The fact that GGA went through that transition smoothly and quietly, without any desertion whatsoever, speaks volumes as to the real appreciation members had of PC at the time.

Compare that coup to all the successive coups, which had lasting, damaging effects, and you'll see what I mean.

Just because their foreign affairs took a turn northwards, it doesn't mean the quality of the alliance decreased. They should remove that idea from their minds once and for all.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Mussolandia

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Mussolandia' date='28 February 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1267396868' post='2208914']
Ex-League people continue to believe it was PC's removal that challenged the efficiency of the alliance. GGA achieved its peak of influence, in my opinion, during the Green crisis of early 2007. That is, a long time after he had been removed. The fact that GGA went through that transition smoothly and quietly, without any desertion whatsoever, speaks volumes as to the real appreciation members had of PC at the time.

Compare that coup to all the successive coups, which had lasting, damaging effects, and you'll see what I mean.

Just because their foreign affairs took a turn northwards, it doesn't mean the quality of the alliance decreased. They should remove that idea from their minds once and for all.
[/quote]
It was their political decisions which ruined their image, efficiency or not. It eventually caught up to them and transpired internally.

[Mussolandia]

Well, yes, but the decision to remove PC was definitely not one of them. He was forgotten very quickly.

OOC: not to mention he could obviously no longer continue in his functions... I honestly don't know why people keep arguing this

Edited February 28, 2010 by Mussolandia

[Andre27]

I have to agree. Fighting the political image was like boksing against a 500lb gorilla.

No matter how friendly, honorable, efficient, open you approached members or representatives of other alliances you were always treated with distrust simply because you represented the Grand Global Alliance.

During my time as GGA triumvir i've made several attempts to talk/get to know our former opponents (Green Civil War, NoCB war) only to get the door thrown shut in my face.

It's safe to say it was frustrating at times.

Edited February 28, 2010 by andre27

[Laomedon]

[quote name='pezstar' date='26 February 2010 - 12:03 PM' timestamp='1267214832' post='2205246']
So your argument is that a government restructure was put forth to the membership, and they voted it down, but you went ahead and did it anyway because you assume they're too stupid to know what they were voting for?
[/quote]

Ding!

Technically, the new junta is composed differently. The proposal that was voted on involved Dementual as emperor and Roy as something else. About 3/4 of the votes were against it. (I'd get you the exact totals, but the old forums are, of course, kerplooie.) The addition of JB was not in the initial proposal. And technically, the new junta hasn't gone the "Emperor Dementual" route just yet, having simply "suspended" the old charter.

Still, to have a coup about a month (maybe less?) after we voted down a change in government was a bit much for me. I considered my options, and decided to join the exodus of people leaving the GGA.

I was with the GGA for a long time, and put a lot of time and effort into it. (Mainly in the Ministry of Communications. I was the guy that put together the .pdf version of the [i]Grand Global Report[/i] that was distributed outside the alliance.) I know a lot of the outside world has problems with the GGA; old grudges based off of old wrongs, generally committed by people who haven't even been in the GGA for a while. Still, I saw the positive side of the GGA, the community of its members, and so on.

I'm leaving because I see this coup as being detrimental to the GGA, and to the community that I was in. The recent vote was a high point for the GGA, in many ways. Dementual had an idea, he put it before the members, it lost, and life went on. Triumvirs were being replaced in an orderly fashion, following the procedures laid out in the charter. It seemed to me that on some level, the GGA had finally found a degree of internal tranquility. It still had problems, of course (member participation wasn't as good as it could be, another war knocked people down, etc.) but the government had the potential to run the place well, or at least to run itself.

The coup, of course, has ended that tranquility. I'm sure the junta would disagree with my assertion, and argue the flaws they saw in the old regime. That's their right, of course, and certainly the government we had could have been improved upon (as most alliance governments can, I would imagine). From my standpoint though, the coup was negative. It upended the charter and its procedures, and leaves the GGA vulnerable to future political instability. Whoever can work out a way to seize power is entitled to, apparently. Moreover, by bringing in people who haven't been in the GGA for a very long time, it seems like a slap in the face to anyone who had been there, doing the work, making the alliance run. Their contributions matter little, when the junta brings in outsiders and elevates them to the highest level by fiat.

I had considered staying in the GGA, in opposition. But ultimately, I decided otherwise. I don't have the time to lead a successful counter-coup, and don't really want to face the possibility of sparking a civil war within the GGA. And the community of people within the GGA, the people that had kept me there even when I was being pounded flat in the Karma War, that community was leaving. And so, ultimately, I decided to vote with my feet, and join the exodus of people that I liked and respected. A few are left in the GGA still, but only a few. Of the former ministers and deputy ministers, I believe one of each remain behind, the rest having left.

While parts of this post probably sound bitter, I wish no ill on the junta that's taken over the GGA. If they can revive it, make it thrive, then wonderful. But for my part, I just don't see where they're going to get the kind of pixie dust they'll need to pull it off. Maybe they're probably better off without people like me holding them back, with my old, conventional ways of thinking. Time will tell, I suppose.

[JimKongIl]

Ok, I am a bit puzzled by this. It takes more than erasing a forum to take over an alliance. For a coup to work you need military power or political power derived from the support of the membership. So far I see neither. Either the membership embraces the coup and welcome the new leaders or you declare them invaders and they summarily expelled or executed. If the members voted against a government change and you took it by force who supports this other than the new government and people outside the alliance? If your legitimacy comes solely from the apathy of the GGA members then I have as much legitimate claim to power as you three, correct? I'd really like to hear more from the current and former GGA membership on this subject.

[Byron Orpheus]

The membership is backing this move. Those leaving were largely part of the problem to begin with; obviously there will be a transitional period in which all the little details are worked out, but I promise that a much-improved GGA is on the horizon.

[DerekJones]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='28 February 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1267418173' post='2209450']
Ok, I am a bit puzzled by this. It takes more than erasing a forum to take over an alliance. For a coup to work you need military power or political power derived from the support of the membership. So far I see neither. Either the membership embraces the coup and welcome the new leaders or you declare them invaders and they summarily expelled or executed. If the members voted against a government change and you took it by force who supports this other than the new government and people outside the alliance? If your legitimacy comes solely from the apathy of the GGA members then I have as much legitimate claim to power as you three, correct? I'd really like to hear more from the current and former GGA membership on this subject.
[/quote]

Exactly what I've been saying I know some treaties carried over, which is by extension a recognition of the coup by other alliances. But, in terms of the membership, hard to say if they've accepted this new government as legitimate. Obviously losing over a quarter of your membership base in a week plus the public outrage from members doesn't speak well in favor of the coup. It seems people who are openly against it are just leaving rather than voicing their opinions. But, considering it's a change to a charter that all members, regardless of rank or position, are asked to abide by when joining, it seems like they should have a say in whether or not this new government should be accepted. Considering that a vote took place towards replacing the government and it failed when put to membership, it was a pretty classless move by the perpetrators of the coup to basically pull a Father Knows Best maneuver on the members. Hopefully any respectful member of the Grand Global Alliance that's left will either leave or stand up against this. In my opinion, forcing yourselves into leadership killed the legitimacy of your so-called noble campaign to fix the alliance, and the only way that the alliance at this point could recover itself at all is through its members taking the initiative instead of a few people making a power grab.

Oh and for the record, Roy Mustang's justification for the coup regardless of the vote against it because the discussion was concentrated more on personal attacks against Dementual and Roy is a pretty lame excuse.

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='01 March 2010 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1267426741' post='2209667']
The membership is backing this move. Those leaving were largely part of the problem to begin with; obviously there will be a transitional period in which all the little details are worked out, but I promise that a much-improved GGA is on the horizon.
[/quote]


If they back this move then why did they vote against it prior to the coup?

In your opinion, what was the the problem?

[Dilber]

To be fair, P_C is the only alliance leader to ever have his declaration of war not accepted by the alliance he declared on.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Dilber

[Elrich von Richt]

I'm uncertain on how exactly to respond to this considering the chain of events leading to this.

However, I will continue watching. Maybe you'll eventually prove to be GGA's salvation.

With that said, good luck.

[scotchwithrocks]

[quote name='DerekJones' date='01 March 2010 - 03:01 AM' timestamp='1267427070' post='2209675']
Exactly what I've been saying I know some treaties carried over, which is by extension a recognition of the coup by other alliances. But, in terms of the membership, hard to say if they've accepted this new government as legitimate. Obviously losing over a quarter of your membership base in a week plus the public outrage from members doesn't speak well in favor of the coup. It seems people who are openly against it are just leaving rather than voicing their opinions. But, considering it's a change to a charter that all members, regardless of rank or position, are asked to abide by when joining, it seems like they should have a say in whether or not this new government should be accepted. Considering that a vote took place towards replacing the government and it failed when put to membership, it was a pretty classless move by the perpetrators of the coup to basically pull a Father Knows Best maneuver on the members. Hopefully any respectful member of the Grand Global Alliance that's left will either leave or stand up against this. In my opinion, forcing yourselves into leadership killed the legitimacy of your so-called noble campaign to fix the alliance, and the only way that the alliance at this point could recover itself at all is through its members taking the initiative instead of a few people making a power grab.

Oh and for the record, Roy Mustang's justification for the coup regardless of the vote against it because the discussion was concentrated more on personal attacks against Dementual and Roy is a pretty lame excuse.
[/quote]

The truthiness here is why DerekJones is nominated for GGA Emperor. Honestly, this all started when he retired and now has come to a head. People who have left and are trying ro rebuild a better version, keep in mind the mistakes of the past. Members still in GGA who want to help fix (though I doubt any read these threads, or do more then collect taxes daily) things have an opportunity here. Either assist the new triumvirate or start your own forum, as that is all that is needed to make yourself the leaders. I even saw a thread where people such as Bilrow can help you with forums. Dementual and Roy may very well save the GGA, and I do hope they do, but rather then living in days strolling in daisy fields, it would be super awesome cool fun if this reunion thread was closed and people got off their collective @#$% and did something.

For my part, I am going to work on DerekJones.GGA.com forums to see some of my moronic post be more than poor lip service.

[Byron Orpheus]

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='01 March 2010 - 07:41 AM' timestamp='1267429476' post='2209721']
If they back this move then why did they vote against it prior to the coup?

In your opinion, what was the the problem?
[/quote]
Voting against it does not mean that the measure was without its supporters. Additionally, the desires of pre-war GGA membership are much different than the desires of the GGA following this last war; this move allowed us to survive and cut away a cancer that would one day kill us, and had maimed us some time ago.

Calling this a coup, while convenient for the sake of terminology, is incorrect. It should be referred to as a rescuing, a renaissance, a revival, as anything other than a coup and all the negativity that accompanies such action. There is no negativity within the new GGA, and we are all working hard to develop an improved GGA that will return the alliance and its members to its former glory.

[Andre27]

Cut away a cancer? By cancer you mean active membership which kept the alliance afloat?

Brian, when two leaders are overthrown by a third and outside members, suspending the charter it's a coup. Sugarcoat it all you like, but that's what it is.

I cannot help but feel sorry for those in the GGA who actually believe that new troika will save you.

Edit: also if the desires of prewar membership were different than those post-war then Shane and Dementual should have reintroduced the proposal for a vote. If opinion had really changed that much than it would have passed and this ugly affair could have been avoided.
However, the fact that the GGA lost roughly 40% of it's members (including those who actually worked their butts off, me included) says enough just how many supported this move of Shane, Dementual and JB.

If they were displeased with the work Qaianna and i did they should have spoken up. Contrary to the picture you paint either one of us was more than willing to listen.

Good luck, you'll most certainly will need it.

Edited March 1, 2010 by andre27

[JimKongIl]

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='01 March 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1267462131' post='2209983']
Voting against it does not mean that the measure was without its supporters.
[/quote]

But it does mean the supporters were a minority at the time of the vote, correct?

[Andre27]

Indeed. That's exactly what it meant. I recall there was approximately 20% in favor of "some" change and in their explanations given that was why they voted in favor.

Of that 20% though, most people stated that they did not support the proposed changes [i]or[/i] proposed new leadership. Had JB been a part of the vote i suspect that the number of votes in favor of changes would have been even less.

[iMatt]

I would wish you guys good luck, but I don't approve of how this went, and if I were in any GGA member's shoes I would also have left for greener pastures. I don't see how you guys thought this was a good idea. I'd heard of this being tossed around before, but you really didn't go the right way about it. At all.

Good luck to the members of GGA in deciding what your next move will be.