Death Before Dishonour

[Gyouza]

I believe part of the conversation was revolving around Ven's character and how he may or may not condone spy'ing, him asking me to spy seems quite relevant to how he feels about spy's. If GLoF feels I have done something wrong I will gladly take my leave with no hard feeling's towards them, I really have nothing personal against Ven this is just why I believe he would be willing to do what he is accused of.


Edit: Correcting wording.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Gyouza

[Veneke]

I see we're sticking with the character assassination instead of dealing with the facts at hand. That's interesting enough in itself I'd wager.


Regardless, apparently my role in this needs to be put under the microscope. Very well.

The context for those two log dumps is rather important. It completely changes the perspective of the issue at hand.

About 1 month prior to those logs (or possibly a week, depending...) it was brought to my attention by a concerned member of the 57th that someone had started, or was attempting to start, a spy ring behind the .gov's back. I did some investigative work and took it to Mechanus. He took the fact that people were doing things without his knowledge, especially something like this, badly. I couldn't blame him for that, but the manner in which he went about diffusing it didn't resolve the problem. Less then a week after this first diffusion (by Mechanus), yet again the same thing happened. I caught wind of it again. Clearly Mech's approach didn't work. I took it upon myself to eradicate it this time. I can't remember exactly if Mech was busy, or if it was a conscious decision in reaction to how badly Mech reacted to the first time, or what the story was. For whatever reason, I didn't tell him. My recollection is that I didn't go to him because I feared for how he would react if this happened a second time. I talked the prospective spyring leader out of doing what he was proposing to do. However, I wasn't fully convinced if I had succeeded. My main concern was that if this idiot was going to take himself down, he sure wasn't going to bring anyone else down with him. For this reason I did my own investigative work. It was during this time that those queries you see before you originated. I went about asking the most likely suspects how they would go about it, and if they were interested in forming an intelligence unit. The goal was to find a list of names of who were likely to back any kind of attempt at spying, and get my foot in the door if the person in question continued with his plans. If any of these people were contacted by the person in question, they'd tell him that I had already contacted them about that, and he'd have been caught before he damaged anyone but himself in this foolhardy business.

As it happened, the bloke in question never followed up on these plans. He inactive-deleted later on down the line (I don't remember when) and that was the end of it. There has never been an intelligence section in the 57th Overlanders, and that entire thing was a ploy to ensure that if some tool decided that he would bring down other members in the 57th, he'd be caught.

So yes, I lied to my own members to ensure their safety. I wasn't entirely certain if a simple direct call asking them to forward anyone who talked about anything like that to me would have been heeded, and this was altogether too sensitive an issue to take risks on. Thus, they had to believe that I was genuinely interested in setting up something like that up. The result is the logs you see here.

[Confusion]

Interesting I must say. Nonetheless Good Luck, I hope this gets resolved soon.
Both alliances seem to have some sort of evidence.

Edited February 15, 2010 by marcus the great

[Gyouza]

So I was a suspect? having been a member from my second day, and having worked hard for at least a portion of my time and the moment I stopped I willing stepped out of my position losing access to the portion of the boards a spy would have had a field day. This makes sense how? This is the most ridiculous lie I have ever seen, you have actually manage to make my opinion even lower of you Veneke.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Gyouza

[Veneke]

[quote name='Gyouza' date='15 February 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1266273807' post='2183570']
So I was a suspect? having been a member from my second day, and having worked hard for at least a portion of my time and the moment I stopped I willing stepped out of my position losing access to the portion of the boards a spy would have had a field day. This makes sense how? This is the most ridiculous lie I have ever seen, you have actually manage to make my opinion even lower of you Veneke.
[/quote]

... read what I wrote mate. Anyone who may have been a risk I contacted. A risk was anyone who was active and who might have been contacted by this bloke. It wasn't so much a reflection on you, other than perhaps my unwillingness to see you get in trouble for whatever this bloke had planned. Most (if not all) of the active IRC members I contacted, anyone I didn't, I felt safe enough in that they'd tell us anyway or weren't active enough to possibly be involved.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='marcus the great' date='15 February 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1266273447' post='2183563']
Interesting I must say. Nonetheless Good Luck, I hope this gets resolved soon.
Both alliances seem to have some sort of evidence.
[/quote]

You're pre-edit was much funnier

[NoFish]

[quote name='Gyouza' date='15 February 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1266273235' post='2183557']
I believe part of the conversation was revolving around Ven's character and how he may or may not condone spy'ing, him asking me to spy seems quite relevant to how he feels about spy's. If GLoF feels I have done something wrong I will gladly take my leave with no hard feeling's towards them, I really have nothing personal against Ven this is why I believe he would be willing to do what he is accused of.
[/quote]
Veneke spying is irrelevant, as is his character. It doesn't matter if he "would be willing to do what he is accused of." All that matters is whether he did it or not, and neither you nor GLoF have any evidence that he did. Your alliance's constant attempts to derail the conversation into character attacks against him simply serve to highlight your lack of evidence.

Edit:
[quote name='Gyouza' date='15 February 2010 - 05:33 PM' timestamp='1266273235' post='2183557']
I really have nothing personal against Ven...
[/quote]

[quote name='Gyouza' date='15 February 2010 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1266273807' post='2183570']
...you have actually manage to make my opinion even lower of you Veneke.
[/quote]
lolwat.

Edited February 15, 2010 by NoFish

[wiccan high priest]

[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='15 February 2010 - 02:45 PM' timestamp='1266263102' post='2183303']
Listen here you retarded !@#$@#$ gerbil or whatever it is you are, either way you need to be kicked, run over, stomped or a nice combo of all three. Take your midget $@! and your pathetic excuse for a lightsaber out of here before I pimp smack you with it. The new name for GLoF should be dishonor. You pathetic alliance attacked on false evidence. SO CHARLES? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU YOU BLOODY RETARDED JACKASS GERBIL !@#$%*!
[/quote]



thats funny, a big rat(squirrel) insulting a small rat (hamster).... I love it..

[wiccan high priest]

[quote name='Theoroshia' date='15 February 2010 - 05:18 PM' timestamp='1266272309' post='2183535']
Character assassination through the use of irrelevant logs from months ago. Great stuff.

By the way Gyouza, how are ye these days, barring the current conflict(s)?
[/quote]



THEO long time no see, stop by TTK one day and I'll buy ya a mug of MEAD.

[Gyouza]

Oh Im sorry no fish I didnt realize disliking something or actions by someone meant it always had to be personal, I have on the other hand disliked what people have done without hating the person. This situation is often called disagreeing with someone, adults have these kinds of situations. I take the possible implication that he believed I was a spy as a pretty big blow and as such he has hit a new low as to how much I can dislike someone whereas before I was more neutral towards him. He knows I was never a spy and I wholly dedicated to the 57th when I was a member and now he is just spinning a web of lies to cover his own $@!. I doubt very many people wouldn't change their opinion about someone when they perform such a blatant action clearly only brought up to try to save face. I apologize for my poor wording of my opinion change earlier I should have as earlier stated said he hit a new low for what I believed capable.

[evilsquirrel]

Am I the only one that realizes that 98% of the people criticizing veneke or the 57th are from GLoF? Hell all of the ex-57th members bashing ven and trying to make him look bad are IN GLOF! lol. Anyways, back to my book


Oh and to all my fans: I every last one of ye
Also, speaking of death. If you own a recent model toyota. You might want to have it towed to your local dealership. Those things are failing harder than GLoF attempts to show actual evidence.

Edited February 15, 2010 by evilsquirrel

[Ragnor]

evilsquirrel: You're about as diplomatic as a bull in a china shop, but you do it with such style that it's hard not to laugh

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='Veneke' date='15 February 2010 - 03:58 PM' timestamp='1266267518' post='2183419']
As many people will be aware, I'm not keen on mediator's, but Thunderstrike in this has been amazing. I had to admit I was kinda nervous when he said that this was his first time mediating, but by all accounts he made a very good showing of himself considering the situation.

o/ Thunder Strike
[/quote]

Ven you're lucky. I'm pretty sure I've seen most of the people that are hailing you and believing your word cry foul when people they don't like did this exact same thing. Since when has it been OK to log dump peace talks? Thunderstike was doing a fantastic job. I doubt that will matter as you've circumvented the talks themselves and are appealing to what are essentially the unwashed masses (I mean it only as the saying).

To you, the unwashed masses, since when do you hail such actions as this thread? In every instance that an alliance has log dumped peace talks they are never lifted up as righteous and honorable. But here you are, finding no fault for disrupting peace by trying to use the talks as political leverage. Have your opinions actually changed or do you have no real beliefs? Do you base what you say only off of who did something or says something? For shame to all of you, and for shame to you Veneke for being willing to sacrifice peace talks so you can puff out your chest.

[Roosterton]

[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='15 February 2010 - 03:17 PM' timestamp='1266275831' post='2183599']
Am I the only one that realizes that 98% of the people criticizing veneke or the 57th are from GLoF? Hell all of the ex-57th members bashing ven and trying to make him look bad are IN GLOF! lol.[/quote]

Nope you aren't, I was very close to pointing this out yesterday

In any case, this conflict has done nothing but heighten my opinion of Ven, and lowered my opinion of everyone who actually supports GLoF's actions. Ven was literally ordering those of us who were weakened from the first war to go PoW to save our pixels. (Of course, many of us ignored his orders, we're fighting alongside him.)

I'm no tech guy, but I can see the blaring inconsistencies between the (faked) post which GLoF was using as evidence, and any other of the thousands of posts on our forums. That is a faked screenshot, which someone in GLoF (Or GLoF's leadership) decided to use to stir @!#% up, and that is a simple fact.

We will not admit to something we have not done.

Prepare for hell, GLoF.

[Chimaera]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='15 February 2010 - 05:36 PM' timestamp='1266276975' post='2183614']
Ven you're lucky. I'm pretty sure I've seen most of the people that are hailing you and believing your word cry foul when people they don't like did this exact same thing. Since when has it been OK to log dump peace talks? Thunderstike was doing a fantastic job. I doubt that will matter as you've circumvented the talks themselves and are appealing to what are essentially the unwashed masses (I mean it only as the saying).

To you, the unwashed masses, since when do you hail such actions as this thread? In every instance that an alliance has log dumped peace talks they are never lifted up as righteous and honorable. But here you are, finding no fault for disrupting peace by trying to use the talks as political leverage. Have your opinions actually changed or do you have no real beliefs? Do you base what you say only off of who did something or says something? For shame to all of you, and for shame to you Veneke for being willing to sacrifice peace talks so you can puff out your chest.
[/quote]
I could be wrong, but I think we'd rather hail Veneke's actions than GLoF attacking their allies under false pretenses.

[Roosterton]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='15 February 2010 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1266276975' post='2183614']
Ven you're lucky. I'm pretty sure I've seen most of the people that are hailing you and believing your word cry foul when people they don't like did this exact same thing. Since when has it been OK to log dump peace talks? Thunderstike was doing a fantastic job. I doubt that will matter as you've circumvented the talks themselves and are appealing to what are essentially the unwashed masses (I mean it only as the saying).

To you, the unwashed masses, since when do you hail such actions as this thread? In every instance that an alliance has log dumped peace talks they are never lifted up as righteous and honorable. But here you are, finding no fault for disrupting peace by trying to use the talks as political leverage. Have your opinions actually changed or do you have no real beliefs? Do you base what you say only off of who did something or says something? For shame to all of you, and for shame to you Veneke for being willing to sacrifice peace talks so you can puff out your chest.
[/quote]

"Waaah, you're actually supporting the people we're at war with??? This is unheard of, especially when we canceled our treaties on a whim and declared on our allies 42 minutes after making ONE attempt to sort out the situation diplomatically! BAWWWW!!!"

That's amusing

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='Chimaera' date='15 February 2010 - 06:39 PM' timestamp='1266277184' post='2183618']
I could be wrong, but I think we'd rather hail Veneke's actions than GLoF attacking their allies under false pretenses.
[/quote]

I'm not asking you to hail our actions. I'm asking for some sense that people actually [i]believe[/i] what they say here. But you probably didn't actually understand me. Go over it again, and then see if you can actually justify this announcement. If you believe we are wrong, that's fine, I don't care. But don't hail an action that is wrong because you think that the other party is wrong on another matter.

[Goldie]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' date='15 February 2010 - 01:45 PM' timestamp='1266259547' post='2183227']
Honorable, and valiant.

I hope this turns out well for you 57th. i seriously do.
[/quote]

My sentiments exactly. You guys are getting played by an alliance that I would not call the pillar of honorable actions, so best of luck to you guys in reaching the terms you laid out.

[Defective]

GLOF is what you call bullies.


They we're never touched by their parents so they think they we're not loved.
They never had a girl not run away when they came 200 meters from one.
They still have yet to make a friend.


Bunch of useless grade school bullies.


BTW, I refuse to surrender to people who have proven that you can live with less then 8 IQ


The second post ---> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=80702&st=280&gopid=2183635&#entry2183635

Edited February 15, 2010 by Defective

[Chimaera]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='15 February 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1266277483' post='2183626']
I'm not asking you to hail our actions. I'm asking for some sense that people actually [i]believe[/i] what they say here. But you probably didn't actually understand me. Go over it again, and then see if you can actually justify this announcement. If you believe we are wrong, that's fine, I don't care. But don't hail an action that is wrong because you think that the other party is wrong on another matter.
[/quote]
Actually, yes, I can justify this announcement. I'm not one of the 10,000 mindless fools who hail along party lines. I legitimately think your alliance was in the wrong and should burn for the treason you've committed.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='15 February 2010 - 11:36 PM' timestamp='1266276975' post='2183614']
Ven you're lucky. I'm pretty sure I've seen most of the people that are hailing you and believing your word cry foul when people they don't like did this exact same thing. Since when has it been OK to log dump peace talks? Thunderstike was doing a fantastic job. I doubt that will matter as you've circumvented the talks themselves and are appealing to what are essentially the unwashed masses (I mean it only as the saying).

To you, the unwashed masses, since when do you hail such actions as this thread? In every instance that an alliance has log dumped peace talks they are never lifted up as righteous and honorable. But here you are, finding no fault for disrupting peace by trying to use the talks as political leverage. Have your opinions actually changed or do you have no real beliefs? Do you base what you say only off of who did something or says something? For shame to all of you, and for shame to you Veneke for being willing to sacrifice peace talks so you can puff out your chest.
[/quote]
Hahaha...Uhahahahahaha...HUAHAHAHAHAA-AHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Oh god, I'm crying, that's too rich.

You're attacking the 57th over unproven, faked images, without allowing them to explain things and are now CRITICIZING him for not showing the proper diplomatic respect by showing how stubborn you are in refusing to acknowledge you may be in the wrong?

You, actually accusing the folks you're beating on, of machismo, when the reasons you yourselves are fighting are because you were unwilling to admit you were wrong. That's too much, seriously.

You know, bud, you really are in no position to criticize anyone of blindly hailing anyone here, when your entire justification for your own moves have been a blind adherence to whatever the reason is for your attacking.

You're lucky everyone else is busy, and have bigger fish to fry. If I were you, I would [i]hope[/i] that this could be settled quickly, and then swept under the rug before other interested parties recover enough to smack you down for your transgressions.

[Theoroshia]

[quote name='Chron' date='16 February 2010 - 12:14 AM' timestamp='1266279287' post='2183682']
-snip-
[/quote]
Sir, I love you and everything you just said.

I'd be willing to leave my wife for you in a completely non-gay way.

[Leigon]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='16 February 2010 - 12:36 AM' timestamp='1266276975' post='2183614']
Ven you're lucky. I'm pretty sure I've seen most of the people that are hailing you and believing your word cry foul when people they don't like did this exact same thing. Since when has it been OK to log dump peace talks? Thunderstike was doing a fantastic job. I doubt that will matter as you've circumvented the talks themselves and are appealing to what are essentially the unwashed masses (I mean it only as the saying).

To you, the unwashed masses, since when do you hail such actions as this thread? In every instance that an alliance has log dumped peace talks they are never lifted up as righteous and honorable. But here you are, finding no fault for disrupting peace by trying to use the talks as political leverage. Have your opinions actually changed or do you have no real beliefs? Do you base what you say only off of who did something or says something? For shame to all of you, and for shame to you Veneke for being willing to sacrifice peace talks so you can puff out your chest.
[/quote]

You're fighting a war against your MDoAP partner, ended the already existing ceasefire and it doesn't look like you were ready to concede anymore. Those talks were already finished unless Veneke admits to something which he seemingly didn't want to. What did you exspect them to do? Sit there and take the punishment? Not being able to fight back properly at the moment leaves going public as the most promising way to react. I'd have done the same.

I gotta agree that Thunderstrike did a fantastic job though. I really don't know how he reached that ceasefire the first day.
I guess everyone was getting tired.

edit: Also what Chron said.
Now look what you've done. You've made me agree with Chron.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Leigon

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='Chimaera' date='15 February 2010 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1266279090' post='2183673']
Actually, yes, I can justify this announcement. I'm not one of the 10,000 mindless fools who hail along party lines. I legitimately think your alliance was in the wrong and should burn for the treason you've committed.
[/quote]

Again, you think I'm talking about something that I'm not. I don't know how to make my post any clearer so perhaps I should just stop trying to make you see what I am actually seeing. But, I'll give it one more shot. I'm not saying that you're hailing them or rather booing us for our actions is wrong. I'm saying you hailing them for breaking the well established principle that you don't log dump peace talks. It only hurts the peace process. So if you really think the 57th don't deserve this war, there is no reason for anybody to be hailing this announcement. It doesn't help peace get established. It only draws attention to try to put diplomatic pressure on the other alliance, which is never appreciated by the other alliance and really is just ridiculous when you can now see in the peace talks, since Ven dumped them, that Penedono doesn't care what those [OOC] on these boards [/OOC] think.

[Defective]

[quote name='Chron' date='15 February 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1266279287' post='2183682']
Hahaha...Uhahahahahaha...HUAHAHAHAHAA-AHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Oh god, I'm crying, that's too rich.

You're attacking the 57th over unproven, faked images, without allowing them to explain things and are now CRITICIZING him for not showing the proper diplomatic respect by showing how stubborn you are in refusing to acknowledge you may be in the wrong?

You, actually accusing the folks you're beating on, of machismo, when the reasons you yourselves are fighting are because you were unwilling to admit you were wrong. That's too much, seriously.

You know, bud, you really are in no position to criticize anyone of blindly hailing anyone here, when your entire justification for your own moves have been a blind adherence to whatever the reason is for your attacking.

You're lucky everyone else is busy, and have bigger fish to fry. If I were you, I would [i]hope[/i] that this could be settled quickly, and then swept under the rug before other interested parties recover enough to smack you down for your transgressions.
[/quote]


I love you guys