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[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='13 February 2010 - 06:53 PM' timestamp='1266105219' post='2179911']
Another screen shot which shows the spacing in the posts of the 57th Forum is standard. Further showing the screens shown by GLOF are incorrect.
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2691/spacingtest2.jpg
[/quote]
Could you do so with a large block of text, comparable to the post we've seen screenshotted before? Just to cover all the bases and make sure all factors are the same.

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[quote name='Locke' date='13 February 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1266108405' post='2179995']
Could you do so with a large block of text, comparable to the post we've seen screenshotted before? Just to cover all the bases and make sure all factors are the same.
[/quote]

Yes you can. One sec

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[quote name='Locke' date='13 February 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1266108405' post='2179995']
Could you do so with a large block of text, comparable to the post we've seen screenshotted before? Just to cover all the bases and make sure all factors are the same.
[/quote]

I could also show you a 233 page spam thread that has the same spacing in every post...

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[quote name='California King' date='14 February 2010 - 04:39 AM' timestamp='1266107984' post='2179980']
Don't be surprised if they're not happy to give admin access on their forum to the ally of the alliance they're at war with.

I would be happy to do it if they will let me, however, as Veneke already stated [OOC]Invisionfree doesn't save all the IP addresses used by an account. In the admin CP it only shows the IP that they used to register. It shows your IP when you post, but JackieChan has only 5 posts, and I think it would be very hard/annoying to even find all those as Invisionfree doesn't have a "search posts by this user" feature. If Jackie just used the IP shown in the screenshot to log in and to read topics, then I don't believe there would be any record of it.[/OOC]
[/quote]

Well where did they get the IP's in the first place? Just get back to that.

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[quote name='hizzy' date='14 February 2010 - 01:10 AM' timestamp='1266109807' post='2180028']
Well where did they get the IP's in the first place? Just get back to that.
[/quote]
By looking at the online list. He won't show up in it now since he's, well, not online.

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Sounds like GLOF could have spent more time on the 57th's forums. I know generally when I worked as CD's DoFA, I liked to know an alliance and spend a fair amount of times on their forums and IRC before I treatied them. Especially when I intend to cancel the treaty and declare war on them over something that could easily be proven false or true, given a reasonable amount of time.


I mean seriously. Words can't describe how little I like the 57th. If I went rogue, Veneke and Mechanus would be at the top of my list just for previous dealings with them. But [i]come [b]on[/b][/i].

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[quote name='Cairna' date='13 February 2010 - 06:49 PM' timestamp='1266115787' post='2180113']
Sounds like GLOF could have spent more time on the 57th's forums. I know generally when I worked as CD's DoFA, I liked to know an alliance and spend a fair amount of times on their forums and IRC before I treatied them. Especially when I intend to cancel the treaty and declare war on them over something that could easily be proven false or true, given a reasonable amount of time.


I mean seriously. Words can't describe how little I like the 57th. If I went rogue, Veneke and Mechanus would be at the top of my list just for previous dealings with them. But [i]come [b]on[/b][/i].
[/quote]

I :wub: you too.

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I am debunking all the bs evidence that GLoF has presented. Just a shame they couldn't be honest about it. Its obvious the evidence is fake. Its painfully obvious. As I have shown, the screen shot shown where "ven" says that our super mega evil spai plain worked thanks to our propaganda ministry" Is fake because the 57th has NO MINISTRIES AT ALL. The .gov of GLoF should know that best of all. That shows to me the leadership of GLoF knew the evidence was fabricated. Also, as numerous people have vouched for, the way ven types in the screen shot provided by GLoF IS NOT HOW VEN talk on forums or just in general! I have shown screen shots that show how he talks and the two are not even close. Just look at the evidence and you know who's full of it and who aint. There is no such thing as a accidental war. War is always helpful.......for the winner

Edited by evilsquirrel
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People watch too much CSI. Far too many "experts" around here with opinions they weren't asked for.


I'd like to once again refer to the timeline presented on the public page of our forum where all these images are currently viewable:

- Veneke personally gives 2 screenshots to the Lodge;
- I trust him, so I trust those images, and expel a member of the Lodge
- I recieve the screenshot of an alleged Veneke post

(This is where it gets pretty complicated, Bob-ers, so take a minute to relax and just breathe before diving in:)

- Whether the image of Ven's post is genuine or fake is - wait for it - BESIDES MY POINT!

It caused us to re-examine the earlier shots that Veneke had given to us, and one of those was found to be fraudulent.
Veneke is the leader of his alliance, and he had been the one to pass fake screenshots off in order to have me expel Lodge members!


And yes, as I have already conceded, ANY image CAN be a fake! Someone may have even hacked the OWF and is "Penedono" isn't even the one posting this right now! None of you could be who you say you are - in any of your forums!

Where do we draw the line, and simply judge things the best we can with the experience we have?

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[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='13 February 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1266116853' post='2180132']
I am debunking all the bs evidence that GLoF has presented. Just a shame they couldn't be honest about it. Its obvious the evidence is fake. Its painfully obvious. As I have shown, the screen shot shown where "ven" says that our super mega evil spai plain worked thanks to our propaganda ministry" Is fake because the 57th has NO MINISTRIES AT ALL. The .gov of GLoF should know that best of all. That shows to me the leadership of GLoF knew the evidence was fabricated. Also, as numerous people have vouched for, the way ven types in the screen shot provided by GLoF IS NOT HOW VEN talk on forums or just in general! I have shown screen shots that show how he talks and the two are not even close. Truly bad form GLoF..........truly sad. If one stops and examines the evidence it is painfully clear that this is a petty grudge against the 57th and it has now boiled over.
[/quote]

did you just try to claim that we have a petty grudge against the 57th?

How quick people are to forget that The Lodge was the [i]first[/i] alliance to back up the 57th just one month ago when Ven declared a war that very well could have been over nothing more than a petty grudge. How quickly it is forgotten that not only did The Lodge support the 57th, but our allies who share no relationship with the 57th, negotiated peace for the 57th. How quickly people forget that after peace was reached the Lodge sent over $100 million in aid to the nations of the 57th.

Petty grudges?

Stop grasping at air.

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[quote name='Bower3aj' date='13 February 2010 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1266119223' post='2180171']
did you just try to claim that we have a petty grudge against the 57th?

How quick people are to forget that The Lodge was the [i]first[/i] alliance to back up the 57th just one month ago when Ven declared a war that very well could have been over nothing more than a petty grudge. How quickly it is forgotten that not only did The Lodge support the 57th, but our allies who share no relationship with the 57th, negotiated peace for the 57th. How quickly people forget that after peace was reached the Lodge sent over $100 million in aid to the nations of the 57th.

Petty grudges?

Stop grasping at air.
[/quote]

He used the wrong wording.

He has been reprimanded and the post edited.

We apologize, and don't wish for this to get any more out of hand than it has.

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I don't understand the issue here. There is a possibility that the last screen shot wasn't authentic. If that's the case- then silly us for thinking it was. That doesn't change the fact that the initial shots of an altered ip address being used to get GLOF to expel a well liked member is at the heart of this issue. Everything else is just icing on the cake- the screen shots provided to GLOF by the leader of the 57th is where the problem lies, and until that's explained I don't think GLOF will be lining up to say we were wrong.

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[quote name='uisge beatha' date='13 February 2010 - 10:19 AM' timestamp='1266074369' post='2179240']
The first IP that was provided was not a complete match, however the second IP and the one in the Screen is an exact match in IP to the one our former member and GLOF member was using. the question is over the validity of the screens, as you said taken in a crappy format

EDIT: sorry as pointed out above the first was taken from IRC
[/quote]
Even an exact match at that differential a time is in no way evidence against him, If he's on most any ISP, your IP address may change as much as every 12 hours, and be given to someone in the same ISP.

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[quote name='Walking_Dead' date='13 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1266124777' post='2180277']
I don't understand the issue here. There is a possibility that the last screen shot wasn't authentic. If that's the case- then silly us for thinking it was. That doesn't change the fact that the initial shots of an altered ip address being used to get GLOF to expel a well liked member is at the heart of this issue. Everything else is just icing on the cake- the screen shots provided to GLOF by the leader of the 57th is where the problem lies, and until that's explained I don't think GLOF will be lining up to say we were wrong.
[/quote]
You realize that the only people in this thread claiming the original screenshot of the IPs is [i]definitely[/i] a fake are GLOF, right?

No one else seems to be understanding how it is so obviously fraudulent, and since it is indeed the heart of the issue, that's kind of the problem.

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Hello to all parts concerned, and also to the flamers :awesome:

We thank you for your support and opinions, one way and the other, and for the offers of technical expertise and mediation that have come from allies (NV for one) and third parties, which show us that there is still people who want to genuinely help sort out a messy - and tricky - situation.

As for one, clearly this is a very "murky" case: and everyone on the forum agrees on that.

To shed some light in, as we bear no ill to the 57th Overlanders as a unity (with actions that have been outlined by Bower above, in post #190), I am here to announce that the Lodge has been issuing a [b]ceasefire[/b] to work on the issue in cooperation with the 57th and third parties, to possibly (as it is possible in our digital world, where copies and retouches are the rule) ascertain the truth.

Obscurus
Communications Pursuivant
The Grand Lodge of Freemasons

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[quote name='obscurus' date='14 February 2010 - 03:42 AM' timestamp='1266136974' post='2180627']
Hello to all parts concerned, and also to the flamers :awesome:

We thank you for your support and opinions, one way and the other, and for the offers of technical expertise and mediation that have come from allies (NV for one) and third parties, which show us that there is still people who want to genuinely help sort out a messy - and tricky - situation.

As for one, clearly this is a very "murky" case: and everyone on the forum agrees on that.

To shed some light in, as we bear no ill to the 57th Overlanders as a unity (with actions that have been outlined by Bower above, in post #190), I am here to announce that the Lodge has been issuing a [b]ceasefire[/b] to work on the issue in cooperation with the 57th and third parties, to possibly (as it is possible in our digital world, where copies and retouches are the rule) ascertain the truth.

Obscurus
Communications Pursuivant
The Grand Lodge of Freemasons
[/quote]

Well, better late than never.

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