With Friends Like These...

[The FSM]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='13 February 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1266104761' post='2179901']
Why should anyone trust what you have to say on this matter?
[/quote]


For all we know he could be making things up, or he could know what he's talking about.

But the basic point he makes is a good one though. Conceivably, if given enough time, you could make a forgery that looks genuine to most anyone who is involved in politics here on Bob.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='The Flying Scotsman' date='13 February 2010 - 06:52 PM' timestamp='1266105127' post='2179907']
For all we know he could be making things up, or he could know what he's talking about.

But the basic point he makes is a good one though. Conceivably, if given enough time, you could make a forgery that looks genuine to most anyone who is involved in politics here on Bob.
[/quote]

This is true, however, when someone random pops up and says message him when he could easily advise someone on how to prove something, it is highly questionable.

[evilsquirrel]

Another screen shot which shows the spacing in the posts of the 57th Forum is standard. Further showing the screens shown by GLOF are incorrect.
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2691/spacingtest2.jpg

[evilsquirrel]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='13 February 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1266103135' post='2179875']
Do you have any evidence that compares Veneke's posts only? If you're going to use pictures as evidence, at least do it right.
[/quote]



Yeah the last link is a comparison of the screen GLOF shows and a post ven made on our forums. The GLOF screen is nowhere near ven's typing style....hence...fake *Plays dramatic music*

[California King]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='13 February 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1266104761' post='2179901']
Why should anyone trust what you have to say on this matter?
[/quote]
He's right. Screenshots can be easily faked, no photoshop needed. All you need is an internet browser and a little bit of code(which you can find using google).
[img]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll74/foxy_lady69/fakepng.png[/img]
See, even I can do it, and I'm no expert. Only took a second
edit: You can also see that there's no big space at the bottom of my screenshot. So whoever faked probably did it like this too. You would have to remember to add in the extra spaces manually.

Edited February 14, 2010 by California King

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='California King' date='13 February 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1266105511' post='2179918']
He's right. Screenshots can be easily faked, no photoshop needed. All you need is an internet browser and a little bit of code(which you can find using google).
[img]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll74/foxy_lady69/fakepng.png[/img]
See, even I can do it, and I'm no expert. Only took a second
[/quote]

I know it's easy to do, but read my last post.

[Lord Panda]

[quote name='California King' date='13 February 2010 - 06:58 PM' timestamp='1266105511' post='2179918']
He's right. Screenshots can be easily faked, no photoshop needed. All you need is an internet browser and a little bit of code(which you can find using google).
[img]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll74/foxy_lady69/fakepng.png[/img]
See, even I can do it, and I'm no expert. Only took a second
[/quote]

At least you remembered the space at the end of the post.

Whoever sent the fake screenshot to GLoF obviously did not do the research.

[evilsquirrel]

The several screenshots show that on the actual 57th Forums, the spacing is standard. The screens which GLOF has used as evidence are 100% fake. Others on this topic have highlighted the same. Therefore, GLOF has used made up evidence to attack an ally.

[hizzy]

[quote name='hizzy' date='13 February 2010 - 08:54 PM' timestamp='1266080054' post='2179343']
I'm curious if Veneke will give someone else admin access to see the logged IP addresses on the 57th's forums. Even if that other post is deleted, if someone can just see for themselves the IP addresses it would clear up the entire issue, wouldn't it?
[/quote]

I would like to reiterate that there is a rather simple solution aside from all the opinions regarding the validity of the screenshot.

Just have a 3rd party check the IP address of the alleged spy that the 57th originally had expelled from GLOF... if it turns out that they are real, then the screenshot of Veneke's post is a fake... if the IP addresses end up not matching, then the 57th did in fact lie.

And it can all be done without arguing about what's real or fake.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='hizzy' date='14 February 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1266106114' post='2179933']
I would like to reiterate that there is a rather simple solution aside from all the opinions regarding the validity of the screenshot.

Just have a 3rd party check the IP address of the alleged spy that the 57th originally had expelled from GLOF... if it turns out that they are real, then the screenshot of Veneke's post is a fake... if the IP addresses end up not matching, then the 57th did in fact lie.

And it can all be done without arguing about what's real or fake.
[/quote]

'tis true. I would actually recommend a 3rd party to do it FOR GLOF. If Need Be I am sure Nueva Vida has someone who would volunteer to do this so that we can help both sides work this out.

[JWConner]

OK, so I've decided to remove myself from the neutral 3rd party and say my piece...

As FS has said previously, Veneke is a very good man. Not perfect, but honorable. If you know the guy, and have witnessed his posting style, it's easy to distinguish whether or not he said what he's accused of saying. I've known Veneke and the 57th for nearly 2 years now. Back when they were HPS, we happened to make friends with FS and Veneke and Mechanus and the whole lot. We found ourselves some great friends then and we've been so to this day.

Now, I'm far from a techie who can distinguish a fake from a real SS. But, if there is any question as to the validity of supposed evidence against your ally, shouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt and speak with them before acting so rashly? To say you searched for them is pathetic. You owed your ally the courtesy of speaking to them and allowing them to explain what had occurred.

Having moved along without taking the time to speak with them shows how much of a sham that treaty was in the first place. To act so swiftly against a supposed friend on the basis of shoddy screenshots and sketchy intel shows how shady and untrustworthy you can be.

As I'm sure it was your intention to smear your former allies and garner public support for their destruction, you've instead alienated yourselves and shown how rash you can be. You didn't think this through. You acted on emotion and have therefore made yourselves out to be the traitorous jerkoffs you've claimed the 57th to be.

...and to those who surrendered from the 57th so quickly, you're pathetic. I truly hope nobody from the 57th allows you to return.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='JWConner' date='14 February 2010 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1266106943' post='2179950']

Now, I'm far from a techie who can distinguish a fake from a real SS. But, if there is any question as to the validity of supposed evidence against your ally, shouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt and speak with them before acting so rashly? To say you searched for them is pathetic. You owed your ally the courtesy of speaking to them and allowing them to explain what had occurred.

Having moved along without taking the time to speak with them shows how much of a sham that treaty was in the first place. To act so swiftly against a supposed friend on the basis of shoddy screenshots and sketchy intel shows how shady and untrustworthy you can be.
[/quote]

in regards to acting too quickly, I believe this has been going on for around a month.... this was just the final thing brought to their attention...

[Gyouza]

[quote name='evilsquirrel' date='13 February 2010 - 07:07 PM' timestamp='1266106023' post='2179930']
The several screenshots show that on the actual 57th Forums, the spacing is standard. The screens which GLOF has used as evidence are 100% fake. Others on this topic have highlighted the same. Therefore, GLOF has used made up evidence to attack an ally.
[/quote]

Just an fyi evilsquirrel only 1 screen is for something that we had received as being said on the 57th board, the rest are something we got directly from Veneke and are on his photobucket so you are not debunking the "screens" at most you would be debunking one of them. Just thought I'd let ya know since you keep referring to how you've shown that our screens are all fake.

[Lord Panda]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='13 February 2010 - 07:22 PM' timestamp='1266106921' post='2179948']
'tis true. I would actually recommend a 3rd party to do it FOR GLOF. If Need Be I am sure Nueva Vida has someone who would volunteer to do this so that we can help both sides work this out.
[/quote]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm sure a mutual ally would be an agreeable alternative for ourselves and GLoF.

[JWConner]

Oh, and it's a true shame that VA currently has it's hands full on 6 other fronts. Whether or not 57th is at fault, this war is wholly unjust and I'd love nothing more to back my allies. Unfortunately, we're a bit preoccupied at the moment (thanks FS and Voodoo ).

But as most of Bob has found out over the past year, Karma's a *$%&#!

[Lord Panda]

[quote name='Gyouza' date='13 February 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1266107143' post='2179953']
Just an fyi evilsquirrel only 1 screen is for something that we had received as being said on the 57th board, the rest are something we got directly from Veneke and are on his photobucket so you are not debunking the "screens" at most you would be debunking one of them. Just thought I'd let ya know since you keep referring to how you've shown that our screens are all fake.
[/quote]

The one that has been debunked is the only excuse you have for going to war with us.

So... Yeah.

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='Lord Panda' date='14 February 2010 - 12:26 AM' timestamp='1266107183' post='2179954']
I appreciate the offer, but I'm sure a mutual ally would be an agreeable alternative for ourselves and GLoF.
[/quote]
No problem. I think you are right and a mutual ally would be most wise. Just offering the service if you guys needed a 3rd party.

[JWConner]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='13 February 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1266107105' post='2179952']
in regards to acting too quickly, I believe this has been going on for around a month.... this was just the final thing brought to their attention...
[/quote]


Right...but one of the reasons given for going in last night was because they couldn't find 57th gov to speak with about the IP issue and the validity of the SS. They clearly had intentions of asking 57th for an explanation, but instead of waiting another day for 57th gov to come around, they acted hastily and declared war. That's what I was getting at.

[The FSM]

[quote name='Gyouza' date='13 February 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1266107143' post='2179953']
Just an fyi evilsquirrel only 1 screen is for something that we had received as being said on the 57th board, the rest are something we got directly from Veneke and are on his photobucket so you are not debunking the "screens" at most you would be debunking one of them. Just thought I'd let ya know since you keep referring to how you've shown that our screens are all fake.
[/quote]

As far as we (to public) know, the screenshot that evilsquirrel and others have been attempting to debunk is the only hard evidence that has been presented that actually shows Veneke trying to falsely accuse Iyeman and Mech of being spies or whatever. Without the screenshot that shows Veneke claiming credit for all of this, GLOF has presented nothing more than some suspicious blurs and discolorations as their evidence.


I cant say this enough, GLOF, please, look into who gave you the screenshot linking Veneke to all of this and see if you can really trust that person.

[Kindom of Goon]

[quote name='Gyouza' date='14 February 2010 - 12:25 AM' timestamp='1266107143' post='2179953']
Just an fyi evilsquirrel only 1 screen is for something that we had received as being said on the 57th board, the rest are something we got directly from Veneke and are on his photobucket so you are not debunking the "screens" at most you would be debunking one of them. Just thought I'd let ya know since you keep referring to how you've shown that our screens are all fake.
[/quote]

Would you have still declared war knowing the latter screenshot was fake and that someone was trying to manipulate you into declaring on the 57th?

[Gyouza]

Well I am in no position to say what the alliance would do as I am in no way near a role of leadership of any kind, I am merely pointing out evilsquirrel seems to be claiming all of the screens are complete forgeries made by us. None were created by us and the ones regarding the IP and Iyeman's post were absolutely not fake... or atleast not by us.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Gyouza

[tarman2010]

This screams setup. By whom, I don't know. But I do know that Veneke would never say anything like that, it's just not his style. Additionally, the technical evidence is leaning toward the opposite of what GLOF said and points to the IPs being correct and the Veneke post being fake.

I'm not saying GLOF did this intentionally, though why they would attack without at least talking first is beyond me. Veneke is on for a good amount of time every day, so wait another day and talk it out. It's not like 57th could jump to PM or anything, they're fighting a war.


Just my $0.02

[Patton 57th]

[quote name='JWConner' date='13 February 2010 - 06:26 PM' timestamp='1266107186' post='2179955']

But as most of Bob has found out over the past year, Karma's a *$%&#!
[/quote]

So true... What goes around comes around!

[California King]

[quote name='PrinceArutha' date='14 February 2010 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1266106921' post='2179948']
'tis true. I would actually recommend a 3rd party to do it FOR GLOF. If Need Be I am sure Nueva Vida has someone who would volunteer to do this so that we can help both sides work this out.
[/quote]
Don't be surprised if they're not happy to give admin access on their forum to the ally of the alliance they're at war with.

I would be happy to do it if they will let me, however, as Veneke already stated [OOC]Invisionfree doesn't save all the IP addresses used by an account. In the admin CP it only shows the IP that they used to register. It shows your IP when you post, but JackieChan has only 5 posts, and I think it would be very hard/annoying to even find all those as Invisionfree doesn't have a "search posts by this user" feature. If Jackie just used the IP shown in the screenshot to log in and to read topics, then I don't believe there would be any record of it.[/OOC]

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='California King' date='14 February 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1266107984' post='2179980']
Don't be surprised if they're not happy to give admin access on their forum to the ally of the alliance they're at war with.

I would be happy to do it if they will let me, however, as Veneke already stated [OOC]Invisionfree doesn't save all the IP addresses used by an account. In the admin CP it only shows the IP that they used to register. It shows your IP when you post, but JackieChan has only 5 posts, and I think it would be very hard/annoying to even find all those as Invisionfree doesn't have a "search posts by this user" feature. If Jackie just used the IP shown in the screenshot to log in and to read topics, then I don't believe there would be any record of it.[/OOC]
[/quote]


totally understand that there might be reservations about this. But, just thought I'd offer.

Hmm, if jackie chan only has 5 posts then there would be a few places to check first. his "applicant" thread, then the banking thread. other than that possibly spam hall