With Friends Like These...

[Locke]

[quote name='Veneke' date='13 February 2010 - 09:12 AM' timestamp='1266070349' post='2179189']
To refer to the screenshots, as Uisge has already said, the problem in the pixel inconsistency (or whatever the hell it is, I'm not too well up on tech things...), relates entirely to how the screenshot is taken, and the fact that JackieChan was logged in as anonymously (you see the little star beside his name in the screenshot?). Myself and Uisge tested this theory, and it reveals the same "inconsistency" in pixels. It has nothing to do with the image being faked, but rather that, for whatever reason, revealing anonymous people on the Online List results in a different type of viewing.
[/quote]
While possible, memoryproblem's explanation is much more likely:
[quote name='memoryproblems' date='13 February 2010 - 07:50 AM' timestamp='1266065412' post='2179148']
Its not about the distortion, such is natural when compressing to a lower quality jpeg, however it appears the issue is more about the inconsistent distortion of the vital numbers. Essentially, to save an image once, you get some distortion, to save it twice, you get more distortion, but if a part is different, then that segment of the image would have only have been compressed to the image one time, and as a result it would have less distortion.
[/quote]
One reason I never, ever save anything in that wretched format (only good for photos and other high-res, high color images). It's [i]possible[/i], as the * offsetting the text could cause the compression algorythm to act differently, but without seeing for myself, much much less likely.

[quote name='Veneke' date='13 February 2010 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1266071699' post='2179204']
I'm assured by blokes with much more technical know-how than I that the difference in the first few numbers of an IP address on IRC referred to a near geographic match. Or something like that... it's rather above my head, but they did agree that it was either a freak occurrence with a proxy, or someone on the same network (near enough to the same network) as Iyeman.
[/quote]
To echo Nippy here, that's the most important part. A difference in [i]the last[/i] set of numbers could mean multiple computers on the same network, the first is different networks entirely.

[Arrnea]

You gotta do what you gotta I guess, GLoF.

OOC: Also, Re: IP addresses, what Locke said. If the first few numbers are different, they could very well be on the other side of the world from each other.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Arrnea

[neneko]

I would just like to point out to all the internet detectives that he most likely refered to a hostmask on irc and not a ip number since that's what you get first if there's one avalible. So the first few numbers would be the first few number in the hostmask not the ip adress wich is very very different.

[Veneke]

neneko, thank you for the clarification. That is indeed what I meant.

Locke, indeed, memoryproblem's reasoning is much more likely, as my own tech guys have just informed me.

[uisge beatha]

[quote name='Locke' date='13 February 2010 - 09:03 AM' timestamp='1266073396' post='2179224']

To echo Nippy here, that's the most important part. A difference in [i]the last[/i] set of numbers could mean multiple computers on the same network, the first is different networks entirely.
[/quote]

The first IP that was provided was not a complete match, however the second IP and the one in the Screen is an exact match in IP to the one our former member and GLOF member was using. the question is over the validity of the screens, as you said taken in a crappy format

EDIT: sorry as pointed out above the first was taken from IRC

Edited February 13, 2010 by uisge beatha

[Penkala]

Your evidence was "the pixels"?

[Locke]

[quote name='Penkala' date='13 February 2010 - 10:21 AM' timestamp='1266074519' post='2179243']
Your evidence was "the pixels"?
[/quote]
Yes, this is a shop, I can tell because of these pixels and seeing many shops in my time.

This is a case where I would have talked to them first, unlike GLOF has done, but I can't really fault them for jumping to it either. It's circumstantial evidence, but it's very compelling circumstantial evidence.

[DirtDiver]

a righteous decision GLOF, go blow some stuff up o/

[Ashoka the Great]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one laughing about this discussion over pixels and forgeries.

It seems like (very, very) old times.


[quote name='Veneke' date='13 February 2010 - 09:12 AM' timestamp='1266070349' post='2179189']
The IP codes in this nearly, very nearly, matched. The only essential difference was the first few numbers, the rest were all the same. GLOF and myself agreed that this does not constitute irrefutable proof.[/quote]

If you're talking about an IP address, then a difference in 'the first few numbers' means that it's a completely different IP. Any similarity is a coincidence.



I'm beginning to get the feeling that nobody involved in this knows what the hell they're doing.

Please continue.

[Felix von Agnu]

I'd put money on a traitor in 57th trying to get his alliance rolled.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' date='13 February 2010 - 11:13 AM' timestamp='1266077587' post='2179307']
I'd put money on a traitor in 57th trying to get his alliance rolled.
[/quote]
^^^^^^ This

Ive known Veneke for a long time and this is not his style of play. I have a hard time swallowing that he would do this let alone post something like that. GLOF your a great alliance but I think you may be mistaken here. I hope this comes to a swift and clean conclusion as I hate to see this kinda crap. Good luck on catching whom ever has caused all this.

[Taget]

[quote name='Tito716' date='13 February 2010 - 03:28 AM' timestamp='1266049713' post='2178982']
Is this a new war?
A new front?
A new side?
How long until Polar declares war on one OR both of them?
[/quote]

Past experience tells us TOP and C&G will soon white peace and this will be a brand new world war.

As for the evidence. I'd request a screenshot using a non-lossy format (bmp, tif, etc) before making any judgements. Things get trickier when you have artifacting getting in the way.

[hizzy]

I'm curious if Veneke will give someone else admin access to see the logged IP addresses on the 57th's forums. Even if that other post is deleted, if someone can just see for themselves the IP addresses it would clear up the entire issue, wouldn't it?

[uisge beatha]

[quote name='hizzy' date='13 February 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1266080054' post='2179343']
I'm curious if Veneke will give someone else admin access to see the logged IP addresses on the 57th's forums. Even if that other post is deleted, if someone can just see for themselves the IP addresses it would clear up the entire issue, wouldn't it?
[/quote]

I am trying to get Ven come on and confirm this, but i dont see why anyone would have a problem with it as this would prove things

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Since we all know screenshots make for irrefutable evidence, i submit exhibit one, from the OP.

[img]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/260/penedono.png[/img]

It might be prudent to look at other details for the account Jacky Chan, such as the means by which he accessed the forum, the OS and browser used. Just saying.

[monkeybum]

Trust me, If someone could prove we were wrong, I'd be much happier.

I'd rather have been an idiot and discovered we were played, then really have my own ally do something like this.

I'm not a computer guy, but everyone who claims to understand has been telling us that the screenshots Veneke gave us were fake.

[Dementual]

Well now, isn't this a shiny situation.

You never spoke to the 57th's government to so much as discuss the situation, yet in the following breath you both cancel your treaty with them AND declare war on them?

And you call [i]them[/i] the bad allies?

These screenshots are silly, and these accusations are silly. You never so much as attempted diplomacy, you just showed up to the stage on the Open World with screenshots that come off as easily fabricated, gave little explanation for your actions, declared war on those people you called friends (did you really think of them as friends in the first place?), then grabbed your popcorn in hopes that nobody would know that Veneke's not that stupid.

I'll be quite honest - I don't really know who you are, and I'm sure you're a nice bunch - you're not helping your case here.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

I think you are getting played. Take a step back, talk it out. No evidence is sacrosanct, question it. Look for motive. I believe there was a proposal to let someone have an admin mask, to check out the IPs on their forums. What is the harm in taking them up on the proposal, at best you will realise it was all a case of someone playing you, at worst you will be proven correct.

[KagetheSecond]

I love people who over react and instantly comdemn people before taking an objective look at things. Methinks you guys jumped the gun on this. Whatever floats your boat though. Good luck, have fun.

[evilsquirrel]

Truly sad

Edited February 13, 2010 by evilsquirrel

[Viion Niccolar]

I just had a less than friendly run in with General Tito of GLOF. Apparently he doesn't know how to read since he sent 2 CM, 2 Air attacks and 2 ground attacks against me ....while I was clearly marked as "Lodge POW". Not exactly the type of behaviour that promotes people to actually do surrender is it?

Edit:
Reps were quickly given and promises of not such things happening again

Edited February 13, 2010 by Viion Niccolar

[Malkavias]

First and foremost, thank you Alfred von Tirpitz for your voice of reason in this matter. As a former member of Ragnarok: Thank you. o/

Secondly, did anyone actually READ the "screenshot" from Veneke? Granted, as a person in a solely advisory role, but I still have [b][OOC][/b]Access to most any forum on the 57th boards, although no Admin powers [b][/OOC][/b] and can say two things about this "screenshot". 1: I have never seen it on our forums. Purely subjective, but I'm giving my word here, if that is worth anything to anyone. 2: Does that actually sound like Veneke? You have read his posts right? Know those [u]Walls of Text[/u][i]TM[/i] and [u]Amusing Drunken Ramblings[/u][i]TM[/i] that you get here and on IRC? Yeah, he does that there too. Can't say that "screenshot" looks to be much his style.


A PLEA TO GLoF:
Instead of barging in guns blazing [nice blitz you gave me by the way] how about actually coming around and talking to us for a gorram minute? Try to salvage what is left of this mess.

[Duke of Cool]

For all you judgmental types who constantly jump to conclusions ON THIS FORUM, to say that diplomacy was not attempted is just plain sillyassedness. The entire crux of CN is the communication that goes on outside of the numbers. EVERY. REASONABLE. ATTEMPT. was made to contact the leader of the 57th, to no avail.

Your high horses aren't so high. If you find yourself in our situation, you too will have to answer to the naysayers. It is the price of politics here and out in the real world. Opinions are formed. The smart ones, however, will take into account all of the machinations that go into decisions such as that we have made. GLOF has never been opportunistic, at least since I've been a part of it. As a group, we lament the use of war as a solution to conflict, yet we march just the same if it is needed. We have followed our treaty partners into war, not questioning the heart of the matter, but following the treaty that ultimately defines the friendship of alliances. When our alliance is attacked in such a way, to tamper with our membership in a foolish schoolyard tug-of-war, we act. If we cannot be afforded an opportunity to talk the conflict out, the next step must be taken.

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='Viion Niccolar' date='13 February 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1266086802' post='2179484']
I just had a less than friendly run in with General Tito of GLOF. Apparently he doesn't know how to read since he sent 2 CM, 2 Air attacks and 2 ground attacks against me ....while I was clearly marked as "Lodge POW". Not exactly the type of behaviour that promotes people to actually do surrender is it?
[/quote]

Well that depends. Did you notify him of your surrender. It's your job to make sure that your attackers know that you have surrendered. If you just change your AA but don't PM them the link to your resignation then they have no way of knowing that you surrendered. Nor would he be looking at your nation, as his war & battles screen would show the AA you had when war was declared. To fight you he never has to go to your nation.

[Pyroman]

I have to agree with what some have said. That post isn't typical of Veneke's posting style. If he were really bragging about such a thing he wouldn't hold back on the arrogant, pompous attitude he usually displays in those kinds of situations.

All the same, that post is lacking. Whoever took the screenshot was kind enough to leave out the IP and topic information for that post. This was probably for when they decided to edit the screenie, they would have less work to do.