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[quote name='DesertSon' date='13 February 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1266042755' post='2178816']
This is the most ridiculous accusation I have ever heard! Futhermore, to hear it here first, you didn't even come to anyone in gov at all Pen?! Had you come to me I would have given you a full mask to our forums immediately, without hesitation, to prove our innocence in this outrage. There only two things sadder to see this evening, first is your belief that this could possibly be true and second that we must still have descenders with our own ranks who would stoop to this level to harm those that have brought them into brotherhood and friendship.
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Spent hours this evening looking for a member of the 57th's government.

I don't like this any more than anyone else would. But even without the screencap of Ven's post, the screenshots he gave me to convince me Iyeman was a spy are absolute forgeries.

I have no interest in seeing innocent members of the 57th burn for the mistakes of their leaders and misguided compatriots. Individual surrender terms are outlined in the OP.

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[quote name='DesertSon' date='13 February 2010 - 12:32 AM' timestamp='1266042755' post='2178816']
This is the most ridiculous accusation I have ever heard! Futhermore, to hear it here first, you didn't even come to anyone in gov at all Pen?! Had you come to me I would have given you a full mask to our forums immediately, without hesitation, to prove our innocence in this outrage. There only two things sadder to see this evening, first is your belief that this could possibly be true and second that we must still have descenders with our own ranks who would stoop to this level to harm those that have brought them into brotherhood and friendship.
[/quote]

I know that this is damage control, perfectly understandable.

The way these screenshots were gone over with a fine tooth comb left no room for doubt.

It's a damned shame that petty anger and foolishness on the part of those who find themselves in leadership roles within your alliance could stoop as low as a classless schoolyard job as this.

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Definitely a sad state of affairs. As I'm not privy to the details involved, I won't comment directly to anyone's innocence or guilt. 57th Overlanders have been allies of VA since their inception, since they were their previous embodiment, and to hear the accusations of espionage against them are definitely disheartening.

I hope to be in contact with my friends soon to hopefully get some answers.

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It seems foolhardy to declare war on someone you held an MDoAP with 2 seconds before without even speaking to their government. Surely this wasn't so urgent, especially in the middle of the Bipolar War, that you could only wait 2 hours for their government before giving up?

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Even though they are our current enemy, it doesn't seem like their governments style, at least from the dialog we have had with them. Images are easy to fake, but I see no immediate flaws in these ones... Hope this can be sorted out rationally, we don't want to share our targets :awesome: Good luck to both parties in any case.

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I can't really fault your motivations, but I really wish you guys used a bit more diplomacy, especially considering the current world situation. Just because you're justified doesn't mean it doesn't activate defensive agreements; I really hope peace can be reached before this spirals out of control.

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[quote name='NoFish' date='13 February 2010 - 04:31 AM' timestamp='1266053513' post='2179029']
I can't really fault your motivations, but I really wish you guys used a bit more diplomacy, especially considering the current world situation. Just because you're justified doesn't mean it doesn't activate defensive agreements; I really hope peace can be reached before this spirals out of control.
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activate defensive agreements ??

It believe that 57th Overlanders initiated the aggression here, against a member of GLOF, by providing fake screen shots to get him expelled.

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Sorry, but the screenshots Veneke provided to GLOF are as fake as can be, and they were provided directly. I'm sure GOD would be the first to say "let's just talk this one out" if fake screenshots were used to expel and then attack one of your members.

These aren't just obvious forgeries, they're poorly done forgeries.

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The posts that Veneke provided to us to make us expel a former member of 57th from the Lodge are fakes. And everyone with a minimum of image-editing skills can ascertain this (and everyone can, as they are publically located at http://www.square-n-compass.net/forum/showthread.php?6291-Imagery-referenced-in-the-Lodge-s-DoW-on-the-57th-Overlanders&p=78459#post78459).

And this is a [b]FACT[/b]

Even if the rest was too (and remember, it doesn't [u]look[/u] like a fake), still the first two were, undoubtably. So, we'd like to hear what Veneke has to say about [u]that[/u], which is the CB.

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