Chief Savage Man Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 Is it me or does 57th seem to show up in things like this all the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agafaba Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='NoFish' date='17 February 2010 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1266370786' post='2186630'] The fact of the matter is that you have no proof he did anything, so you're falling back on arguments like "he could have done it!" and "it's the sort of thing he'd do!" [/quote] You do have to consider that a lot of people are stating he wouldnt do it, so when they say those things its in response to that. If your going to argue something you have to be ready for them to counter it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Panda Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 February 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1266374654' post='2186745'] Theo, while you've done it eloquently, you have nonetheless missed the point of my reply. I have not spoken to the credibility of the screenshots at all, but you have responded to me with a recap of the arguments against the screenshots. The crux of what I said is here: I am incensed by the character testimonials on behalf of Veneke. They are false, and they are offered, as I said, by people who have aided him in his multiple feuds and schemes over the years and even last month when he engaged in a (as you labeled it) "justifiable" war against an alliance because it was debating a treaty upgrade. [list]So, I will reiterate: [*]Veneke is in no shape, way, or form respectable; his style is that of a jackal. [*]I'm staying clear of the 'shop debate. They may all be forgeries, they may all be real, they may be a mix. I wouldn't be surprised if the IP shots were faked by Veneke, and the Veneke speech was in turn a recreation of what the provider knew to be true but had not actual screenshot of. [*]Neither my personal giddiness--and that's what it was--that our [i]projected[/i] target in the TPF War was 57th, nor my personal distaste for a distasteful man has any effect on the truth of my analysis, as confirmed by Mechanus (who has as much dislike for me as I have 57th) it only effects the tone. [/list] [/quote] Your words are as empty as your soul. ...Yes, all I wanted to do was make a Castlevania reference. Sue me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asriel Belacqua Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Mechanus' date='16 February 2010 - 06:17 PM' timestamp='1266369453' post='2186611']As for the bit about it not being a blood feud, you're wrong there as well. Ask Asriel to share some of the logs that Veneke, Lord Panda, and myself had with him. I'm sure you'll see that you are not as right as you believe. My only regret is not apologising to Asriel sooner after I treated him like some sort of traitor for bringing back Browncoats.[/quote] Sadly, the only remaining logs I have of those days are the ones of you saying those to me, however, I do remember the others quite vividly. Only reason I have yours is I posted them on our forums, and not the others, and have since deleted my cache of those conversations from 57th members. Funny how that works... The only one you didn't delete is the only one that ends up becoming friends with ye again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The FSM Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 February 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1266374654' post='2186745'] Theo, while you've done it eloquently, you have nonetheless missed the point of my reply. I have not spoken to the credibility of the screenshots at all, but you have responded to me with a recap of the arguments against the screenshots. The crux of what I said is here: I am incensed by the character testimonials on behalf of Veneke. They are false, and they are offered, as I said, by people who have aided him in his multiple feuds and schemes over the years and even last month when he engaged in a (as you labeled it) "justifiable" war against an alliance because it was debating a treaty upgrade. [list]So, I will reiterate: [*]Veneke is in no shape, way, or form respectable; his style is that of a jackal. [*]I'm staying clear of the 'shop debate. They may all be forgeries, they may all be real, they may be a mix. I wouldn't be surprised if the IP shots were faked by Veneke, and the Veneke speech was in turn a recreation of what the provider knew to be true but had not actual screenshot of. [*]Neither my personal giddiness--and that's what it was--that our [i]projected[/i] target in the TPF War was 57th, nor my personal distaste for a distasteful man has any effect on the truth of my analysis, as confirmed by Mechanus (who has as much dislike for me as I have 57th) it only effects the tone. [/list] [/quote] Im going to assume this was directed at me, since I was the one who replied to you originally. I know what the point of your post was Schatt, and that was to provide a counter to statements by people such as myself who do not believe Veneke is capable of doing such a thing. The reason I did not respond to it directly is because there is little point. We are both doing the same thing, we are both providing character testimony. It just so happens that you believe Veneke to be fully capable of lying and deceiving his allies while I do not. It is obvious we have a disagreement over the extent of Veneke's character flaws and I saw little merit in pressing the debate. Rather I posted my reasons for believing the screenshots to be false because the end of your initial post only makes sense if one assumes them to be true as you (at least it seemed this way to me) paraphrase what Veneke says in the screenshot and use it as evidence for your characterization of Veneke. If one accepts the Veneke screenshot as true, then the argument you put forth makes sense, if one does not accept the Veneke screenshot as true then your argument seems unbelievable. As for the dig at those aiding and abetting Veneke's schemes, I do hope that isnt directed at me because you would be very off base in such a characterization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jackson Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Lord Panda' date='16 February 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1266375799' post='2186792'] Your words are as empty as your soul. ...Yes, all I wanted to do was make a Castlevania reference. Sue me. [/quote] Mankind ill needs a savior such as you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Panda Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='16 February 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1266376468' post='2186837'] Mankind ill needs a savior such as you! [/quote] What is a man?! -wine glass- A petty little bag of secrets! But enough talk, have at you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 You know, the title of this thread is actually kind of hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarman2010 Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 February 2010 - 05:26 PM' timestamp='1266362804' post='2186416'] The amount of background knowledge required to make any sort of conclusion in this matter makes the amount of outside opinionating in it absolutely laughable. Veneke is not honorable, he has never been honorable, and he will never be honorable. It is because people like you all describe people like Veneke as honorable that I do not even recognize the description in context of Planet Bob. Veneke is a liar. He is a backroom dealer. He is a member-poaching, thieving traitor. He would kick his mother off a sinking boat if he thought it would give him 5 more minutes afloat. The people giving character vouches of Veneke are the same people complicit in his years of plotting. *snip* It may well be true that both GLoF and Veneke have been played. 57th's history has garnered it a thick roster of enemies. But the notion that Veneke is anything but a snake in the grass is laughable; such an opinion makes anyone that holds it a pitiable sod indeed. [/quote] Well I'm glad we've moved on now to not only attacking Veneke's character but to also attacking the character of those who support him. I've been playing CN for nearly three years and never once been involved in any sort of dishonorable plotting, and I know that others as well as myself take offense to being offhandedly accused of such. I support Veneke because I support my friends and allies in 57th, because they've never once given me a reason not to. And until such day comes, which from my personal experience probably never will because they're a great bunch, I will continue to trust their word over the hypocritical words of those who accuse 57th of holding grudges while they so clearly do so themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jackson Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Lord Panda' date='16 February 2010 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1266376769' post='2186861'] What is a man?! -wine glass- A petty little bag of secrets! But enough talk, have at you! [/quote] Miserable little pile of secrets is the correct line IIRC. [OOC]Great, now I want to play through that game AGAIN.[/OOC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradia Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 We can ignore Schatt. He's been begging for attention ever since TWiP ended. Nothing he says really matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='tarman2010' date='16 February 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1266377086' post='2186880'] Well I'm glad we've moved on now to not only attacking Veneke's character but to also attacking the character of those who support him. I've been playing CN for nearly three years and never once been involved in any sort of dishonorable plotting, and I know that others as well as myself take offense to being offhandedly accused of such. I support Veneke because I support my friends and allies in 57th, because they've never once given me a reason not to. And until such day comes, which from my personal experience probably never will because they're a great bunch, I will continue to trust their word over the hypocritical words of those who accuse 57th of holding grudges while they so clearly do so themselves. [/quote] If you've been around for 3 years and you still haven't grasped the "vote with your feet" reality, then I don't know what you've been doing in those three years, but it's not paying attention. Keeping a treaty with an alliance is support of its actions. You might say you don't support this or that, but if you're still standing behind the guy while you're saying it, then you're lying. As Molon Labe puts it: "Acta non verba." [quote name='The Great One' date='16 February 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1266377233' post='2186888'] We can ignore Schatt. He's been begging for attention ever since TWiP ended. Nothing he says really matters. [/quote] Another fan. Here ya go: [img]http://i43.tinypic.com/dy3rya.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coloradia Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Schattenmann' date='16 February 2010 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1266377898' post='2186919'] If you've been around for 3 years and you still haven't grasped the "vote with your feet" reality, then I don't know what you've been doing in those three years, but it's not paying attention. Keeping a treaty with an alliance is support of its actions. You might say you don't support this or that, but if you're still standing behind the guy while you're saying it, then you're lying. As Molon Labe puts it: "Acta non verba." Another fan. Here ya go: [img]http://i43.tinypic.com/dy3rya.jpg[/img] [/quote] Ohhemgee it's beautiful. For me? Truly? I don't know what to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Panda Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='16 February 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1266377192' post='2186886'] Miserable little pile of secrets is the correct line IIRC. [OOC]Great, now I want to play through that game AGAIN.[/OOC] [/quote] I always forget. =/ [OOC]I'm gonna get it off Xbox Live.[/OOC] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggarz Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 I am joining to show off my shiny new sig. Also Veneke bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Lord Panda' date='16 February 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1266375799' post='2186792']Your words are as empty as your soul. ...Yes, all I wanted to do was make a Castlevania reference. Sue me.[/quote][quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='16 February 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1266376468' post='2186837']Mankind ill needs a savior such as you![/quote][quote name='Lord Panda' date='16 February 2010 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1266376769' post='2186861']What is a man?! -wine glass- A petty little bag of secrets! But enough talk, have at you![/quote][quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='16 February 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1266377192' post='2186886']Miserable little pile of secrets is the correct line IIRC. [OOC]Great, now I want to play through that game AGAIN.[/OOC][/quote] Goddamn you both, now I'm going to be busy all night. OOC: Playing it, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles the Great Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='16 February 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1266374753' post='2186747'] Is it me or does 57th seem to show up in things like this all the time? [/quote] bingo...........OMG now I am agreeing with a member of \m/!! Edited February 17, 2010 by Charles the Great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFish Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 [quote name='Delta1212' date='16 February 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1266376927' post='2186873'] You know, the title of this thread is actually kind of hilarious. [/quote] I was just thinking that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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