With Friends Like These...

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1266259480' post='2183220']
Therefore am I to assume that it is the position of GLoF that the entire row is faked? Including the time? What reason would there be to insert a fake time? what reason would there be to fake what topic was being viewed?

If the disruption is your basis for calling it faked then you must agree that both Time and Location areas were faked as well.
[/quote]

If you say so.

You can say whatever you want, and assume whatever you want.

Edited February 15, 2010 by bluesasquatch

[Coloradia]

So this all boils down to GLoF saying "We believe the IP is faked", and when numerous different things are brought forth that cast great doubt upon whether it is faked or not, GLoF has no reply. You have no reply because these reasons brought forth are valid, yet to admit so destroys your entire CB. Therefore GLoF cannot admit that these could be true.

That sure is how this looks.

[Heft]

Just as a note, this might be the first time since the foundation of the NSO that I've actually agreed with The Great One on anything.

So good job on that, guys.

[Auctor]

well, that and a load of Silence folks w/o any facts themselves belting out their opinion.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='Auctor' date='15 February 2010 - 02:14 PM' timestamp='1266261270' post='2183270']
well, that and a load of Silence folks w/o any facts themselves belting out their opinion.
[/quote]
A GLoF member admitted the disruptions were consistent throughout the entire row in the screenshot. If the disruptions are the basis for calling it fake then it is reasonable to assume that GLoF considers the entire row to be fake.

Would you agree thus far Auctor?

Now from that, there is absolutely no reason the time would be faked that I can think of, and I really don't see how it could matter. It would be in between the 4:29 above it and the 4:25 below if, so it is either a 4:25/6/7/8/9. None of those times would have any bearing upon the issue at all, therefore there is no reason to change them. So you believe that the time was changed for absolutely no reason? Same argument for Location, although perhaps the topic being viewed did have some bearing upon it? I don't know, although I highly doubt it.

If you do not believe that the time and location were changed, then how can you argue that the IP was? There is no longer any basis for that argument because you would be admitting that the inconsistencies do not mean the text is faked.


Edit: @ Heft - Shoot, a Sith agrees with me? Perhaps I should change sides =p

Edited February 15, 2010 by The Great One

[Kindom of Goon]

The lack of facts is the problem Auctor.

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 07:11 PM' timestamp='1266261091' post='2183264']
"We believe the IP is faked", and when numerous different things are brought forth that cast great doubt upon whether it is faked or not, GLoF has no reply.

That sure is how this looks.
[/quote]

What are you arguing for? You already agreed with me that "the whole row is disrupted differently from the others."

[Auctor]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 02:22 PM' timestamp='1266261729' post='2183278']
A GLoF member admitted the disruptions were consistent throughout the entire row in the screenshot. If the disruptions are the basis for calling it fake then it is reasonable to assume that GLoF considers the entire row to be fake.

Would you agree thus far Auctor?

Now from that, there is absolutely no reason the time would be faked that I can think of, and I really don't see how it could matter. It would be in between the 4:29 above it and the 4:25 below if, so it is either a 4:25/6/7/8/9. None of those times would have any bearing upon the issue at all, therefore there is no reason to change them. So you believe that the time was changed for absolutely no reason? Same argument for Location, although perhaps the topic being viewed did have some bearing upon it? I don't know, although I highly doubt it.

If you do not believe that the time and location were changed, then how can you argue that the IP was? There is no longer any basis for that argument because you would be admitting that the inconsistencies do not mean the text is faked.
[/quote]

Those aren't facts, those are arguments and opinions. XD

GLoF made a rush to judgment here from what I can tell, but speaking the loudest doesn't make whichever spin on the truth of the matter any righter than anyone else's. I'd encourage everyone here to calm down, step back, let those involved work it out.

[quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='15 February 2010 - 02:23 PM' timestamp='1266261786' post='2183281']
The lack of facts is the problem Auctor.
[/quote]
Agreed.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Auctor

[Coloradia]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1266261975' post='2183284']
What are you arguing for? You already agreed with me that "the whole row is disrupted differently from the others."
[/quote]
My post quite clearly displays my argument.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='Auctor' date='15 February 2010 - 02:28 PM' timestamp='1266262084' post='2183286']
Those aren't facts, those are arguments and opinions. XD

GLoF made a rush to judgment here from what I can tell, but speaking the loudest doesn't make whichever spin on the truth of the matter any righter than anyone else's. I'd encourage everyone here to calm down, step back, let those involved work it out.


Agreed.
[/quote]
It is an argument that quite clearly lays a great deal of doubt upon the belief that the IP is faked. In the peace negotiation logs the majority of what Pen states/demands is based off his belief that it is faked. Maybe it is just me, the point I brought up seems to leave only two choices.

GLoF believes that whoever faked the IP also went and inserted a fake location, and fake time, which makes no sense at all, a realistic time would already be present in between the 4:25 and 4:29, so what possible reason would there be to replace a valid entry with another valid entry (The 4:27)?

If GLoF does not believe the Time and Location to be faked, then they themselves admit that the reason they give for believing the I to be fake is null and void. Seeing as the disruptions are consistent throughout the entire row.

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1266262725' post='2183296']
GLoF believes
[/quote]

I believe, don't go putting words in Mr. GLoF's mouth.

[Kindom of Goon]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1266262841' post='2183297']
I believe, don't go putting words in Mr. GLoF's mouth.
[/quote]

GLoF has to believe it too, otherwise the whole argument about the IP section being fake goes out the window since the same inconsistancies exist on the time and date.

[Charles the Great]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1266261091' post='2183264']
So this all boils down to GLoF saying "We believe the IP is faked", and when numerous different things are brought forth that cast great doubt upon whether it is faked or not, GLoF has no reply. You have no reply because these reasons brought forth are valid, yet to admit so destroys your entire CB. Therefore GLoF cannot admit that these could be true.

That sure is how this looks.
[/quote]

We trust our experts when they say it is faked.........I have no reason to believe anyone else on the OWF nor do I care what they say..................

[Coloradia]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1266262841' post='2183297']
I believe, don't go putting words in Mr. GLoF's mouth.
[/quote]
Check the context.

I have seen nobody from GLoF dispute the fact that the inconsistencies are present throughout the entire Jackiechan row in the SS, as a matter of fact it is clear to the naked eye that the text in that row seems to be sharper and darker. That has been cited by GLoF as the reason they believe the IP to be faked. NOT JUST YOU, BUT GLOF ITSELF.

Yadayada, check my other post for the rest.

If the "inconsistencies" mean the IP is faked, then GLoF either thinks the time/location are fake as well, or they admit that the inconsistencies do not mean the text is fake, and therefore the claim the IP is fake goes out the window.

Edit: Go Goon, beat me to it. Man, if Goon gets what I'm saying it must be pretty obvious, he's a bit slow if ye catch my drift

Edited February 15, 2010 by The Great One

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1266262725' post='2183296']
It is an argument that quite clearly lays a great deal of doubt upon the belief that the IP is faked. In the peace negotiation logs the majority of what Pen states/demands is based off his belief that it is faked. Maybe it is just me, the point I brought up seems to leave only two choices.

GLoF believes that whoever faked the IP also went and inserted a fake location, and fake time, which makes no sense at all, a realistic time would already be present in between the 4:25 and 4:29, so what possible reason would there be to replace a valid entry with another valid entry (The 4:27)?

If GLoF does not believe the Time and Location to be faked, then they themselves admit that the reason they give for believing the I to be fake is null and void. Seeing as the disruptions are consistent throughout the entire row.
[/quote]

The fact is... The IP address is the most important point. Location and Time don't really matter, altered or not. As for reason... GLoF knows the truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart.

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='15 February 2010 - 07:44 PM' timestamp='1266263054' post='2183301']
GLoF has to believe it too, otherwise the whole argument about the IP section being fake goes out the window since the same inconsistancies exist on the time and date.
[/quote]

I'm just saying I'm a single person, and do not speak for the government. You can't read between the lines?

[Coloradia]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 02:52 PM' timestamp='1266263579' post='2183325']
I'm just saying I'm a single person, and do not speak for the government. You can't read between the lines?
[/quote]
It appears you cannot read at all. I have made it quite clear that if GLoF believes the IP is fake due to the inconsitencies, then it must believe the Time and Location are fake as well. The inconsistencies (Which GLoF cites as proof of the IP being fake) are present in all three.

There is absolutely no reason for the Time or Location to be faked, therefore the fact that they have the same inconsistencies only furthers the point that something, perhaps the fact that Jackiechan was logged in anonymously, as has been previously mentioned, or perhaps the fact that his mask showed his name is green, WHO KNOWS!, is the cause for the inconsistencies througout the row.

I'm beginning to wonder if this ignorance is an act, I don't see how a human being could truly not get what I am saying here. Are you playing dumb?

[bagpuss]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1266263491' post='2183319']
The fact is... The IP address is the most important point. Location and Time don't really matter, altered or not. As for reason... GLoF knows the truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart.
[/quote]

On the contrary although the point of altering the time and topic being viewed seems irrelevant surely any faker would alter the IP only as they'd not care about them. Thus the fact both the location and time appear to be faked too means the faker was clever enough to realise they'd need dow to yet also to stupid to bother checking for any inconsistencies. Something i would imagine anyone bothering to fake properly would have no problem removing or adding elsewhere in the screenshot.

[Kindom of Goon]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 07:51 PM' timestamp='1266263491' post='2183319']
The fact is... The IP address is the most important point. Location and Time don't really matter, altered or not. As for reason... GLoF knows the truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart.
[/quote]

On its own the time and date does not matter but in context it does.

Either:

1) The time and date have not been edited, which would suggest the inconsistancies on the entire line is down to something other than forgery.

or

2) The time and date have been edited, which would suggest whoever did the editing is an idiot who edited something that didn't need to be edited at all (I mean what exactly would they be changing?).

You guys seems to want to refuse to accept any other possibility other than your initial conclusions though, so I'll stop wasting my breath.

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1266263898' post='2183334']
I have made it quite clear that if GLoF believes the IP is fake due to the inconsitencies, then it must believe the Time and Location are fake as well. The inconsistencies (Which GLoF cites as proof of the IP being fake) are present in all three.

There is absolutely no reason for the Time or Location to be faked, therefore the fact that they have the same inconsistencies only furthers the point that something, perhaps the fact that Jackiechan was logged in anonymously, as has been previously mentioned, or perhaps the fact that his mask showed his name is green, WHO KNOWS!, is the cause for the inconsistencies througout the row.

I'm beginning to wonder if this ignorance is an act, I don't see how a human being could truly not get what I am saying here. Are you playing dumb?
[/quote]

Yes you're making things [b]very[/b] clear, you've already acknowledged the inconsistencies in the screen shot, many, many, times.

I just don't see how [i]you[/i] can make clear what [i]GLoF[/i] believes. Can you explain that for us too please?

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='15 February 2010 - 08:02 PM' timestamp='1266264137' post='2183340']You guys seems to want to refuse to accept any other possibility other than your initial conclusions though, so I'll stop wasting my breath.
[/quote]

Thankyou.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1266264373' post='2183345']
Yes you're making things [b]very[/b] clear, you've already acknowledged the inconsistencies in the screen shot, many, many, times.

I just don't see how [i]you[/i] can make clear what [i]GLoF[/i] believes. Can you explain that for us too please?
[/quote]
Well I guess theres a chance GLoF doesn't believe what it cites as it's CB. But then that makes you all a bunch of dishonourable liars no? What do you prefer, being dishonourable lairs or simply ignorant fools who refuse to admit the validity of the facts that prove them wrong due to the immense embarassment it would cause them?

Edited February 15, 2010 by The Great One

[The FSM]

Alliances would do well to learn that their image is not affected only by the words and actions of their leaders, but also by the words and actions of their members. GLOF is an alliance that I have respected greatly over my career here on Bob, however the display by members of GLOF in this thread, as well as the course GLOF has taken in regards to this situation, have forced me to realize that GLOF is no longer the alliance I was once close with.

GLOF, there are important lessons to be learned here. I sincerely hope that there are members yet left amongst you that are capable of picking up on such lessons.

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 08:10 PM' timestamp='1266264653' post='2183357']
Well I guess theres a chance GLoF doesn't believe what it cites as it's CB. But then that makes you all a bunch of dishonourable liars no? What do you prefer, being dishonourable lairs or simply ignorant fools who refuse to admit the validity of the facts that prove them wrong due to the immense embarassment it would cause them?
[/quote]

Perhaps, we, like you, assume too much. How does it go? When you assume, you make an [b]a**[/b] out of [b]u[/b] and [b]me[/b].

As for the validity of the facts, you already helped me prove them. Thanks again. Good day to you.

Edited February 15, 2010 by bluesasquatch

[Coloradia]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1266265111' post='2183366']
Perhaps, we, like you, assume too much. How does it go? When you assume, you make an [b]a**[/b] out of [b]u[/b] and [b]me[/b].

As for the validity of the facts, you already helped me prove them. Thanks again. Good day to you.
[/quote]
In your selective and ignorant thinking you think I helped prove your facts. I love how you accept my statement that the inconsistencies are present throughout the entire row. Then ignore the fact that you therefore must believe the Time and Location are faked as well. Especially when there is absolutely no reason to fake the Time or Location, which leads to the highly likely fact that the inconsistencies are due to something other than being faked.

Seriously, are you the best GLoF has? I feel like I'm arguing with an eight year-old here.