With Friends Like These...

[constapatedape]

[quote name='Charles the Great' date='14 February 2010 - 11:25 AM' timestamp='1266168318' post='2180882']
I have asked around about Veneke and found out he does lie and twist words around all the time, even if this blows over I would be opposed to ever being allied with any alliance he is a part of ever agian. He obviously has his own agenda and that is fine but I dont want to be a part of it....... there are irc conversations I have seen that show him plotting to spy on enemies and allies alike................as for GLoF not having honor that statement from you is laughable at best. Also your opinion means less than nothing to me you are a has been in CN go away.
[/quote]


wow...I've stayed silent on this issue but this statement is just completely and utterly wrong

Ven is one of the most genuine people I've met in all of CN and I have never known him to say anything but what he believes is the truth, nor in any instance have i ever heard any inkling of Ven plotting against anyone outside of during war

57th i you guys and know everything is going to work out for y'all

[evilsquirrel]

[quote name='constapatedape' date='14 February 2010 - 03:21 PM' timestamp='1266189718' post='2181477']
wow...I've stayed silent on this issue but this statement is just completely and utterly wrong

Ven is one of the most genuine people I've met in all of CN and I have never known him to say anything but what he believes is the truth, nor in any instance have i ever heard any inkling of Ven plotting against anyone outside of during war

57th i you guys and know everything is going to work out for y'all
[/quote]
We you too big guy

[Lennox]

Good luck GLOF. Spying is something I will never condone. 57th, get your spies out of NSO

[tarman2010]

[quote name='constapatedape' date='14 February 2010 - 05:21 PM' timestamp='1266189718' post='2181477']
wow...I've stayed silent on this issue but this statement is just completely and utterly wrong

Ven is one of the most genuine people I've met in all of CN and I have never known him to say anything but what he believes is the truth, nor in any instance have i ever heard any inkling of Ven plotting against anyone outside of during war

57th i you guys and know everything is going to work out for y'all
[/quote]

100% agree. I knew the evidence presented by GLOF was farce the moment it implicated Veneke in a plot to undermine an ally. I trust Veneke's word a lot more than most people's and know that I can always count on him to act in an honorable fashion. He and 57th have never been anything less than the best allies and friends people could ask for and the way they've been treated by GLOF is absolutely despicable.

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='Veneke' date='14 February 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1266187445' post='2181411']
The internal procedures of the 57th at the time of the signing of the treaty had the second in command in charge of internal, and not external, affairs. I was rather more busy setting up trade rings, recruitment, activity, education and so on rather than with talking to our allies, mainly because Mechanus had taken that up as his area of expertise. It also made more sense for him to do so, due to the nature of the command structure in the 57th. I personally prefer dealing with people inside my alliance, because those are my crew (That's a Firefly reference, if you don't get it, don't comment on it). It's a personal preference of mine, and one that, back then, I didn't have to overly concern myself about. I never once saw Mechanus work on any trade ring, education system, or anything of the like, so nor did I go into his realm of affairs, and that was just the way it was done. Same thing can be said for the Quartermaster, the two of us stayed away from the military, and gave him a free rein. That was how the government was run under Mechanus. It's changed somewhat since. [/quote]

A reasonable answer, though I wasn't holding it against you at all. Just merely pointing out to JW that a member of the lodge knowing you on an intimate level is a fool hearted argument to make. It's nothing against you.


[quote name='Veneke' date='14 February 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1266187445' post='2181411']
I'm curious, when ye went talking to these career designers, did they check that image that ye were given? Amateurs and career blokes alike have spotted the differences. Hell, I know nothing about the thing and it's obvious that there's something odd about it. With regards to the images I took myself and gave ye, you'll note that all of my images look like that, as up until now I was unaware that JPEG's are dodgy images. Plus, for whatever reason, my images all possess that grainy distorted effect, and oddly enough seem to differ in how they're distorted. A previous image was linked earlier in the thread which pretty much recreated that effect (not as extreme as the one given, but nonetheless a recreation).[/quote]

I think the first part of your thing has been answered. We really just don't care if the SS that was provided by somebody other than you is real. It is merely what caused us to look at your images again. They looked at your images at said that they looked forged. That's what matters to us. That images given to us look forged to experts on the matter. Though I will say, if this is the largest coincidental jpeg ever, than you should be more concerned that there is a member of your alliance that wants to get you all rolled. That seems to be something that I would be worried about.

[quote name='Veneke' date='14 February 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1266187445' post='2181411']
Contact was made to me (while I was afk) at 5.00 am GMT. This declaration went out 42 minutes later. The entirety of the message left by Penedono was "Hi!". That was the sum total of contact you tried to make with me. You're well aware of the fact that I'm on GMT actual, which was why this makes no sense in the slightest. When I talked to Penedono running this by him again yesterday (and Thunderstrike from RIA can confirm this) his reply was something to the extent of "I don't care." though he certainly had a more colourful way of phrasing it.[/quote]

I cannot speak to any attempt to contact you. I don't know when it happened or how it happened. Sorry. But I will say that I believe his response to you being in a different time zone was something along the lines of we're all in different time zones.

[quote name='Veneke' date='14 February 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1266187445' post='2181411']
It is curious to note though that target lists were made before an attempt was made to contact me... that's quite interesting indeed.



For the record (thought I stated this earlier in this thread, but perhaps not), had GLOF come to me and shown me this, we would of course have dropped the accusation because GLOF wouldn't have felt that the evidence was satisfactory. This was done earlier, when previous evidence linking Iyeman to a spy in the 57th was deemed inconclusive, and we had no problem with that. We realized and accepted that Iyeman was a GLOF member, and it was up to Penedono to establish his guilt or innocence. As it turned out, in the event, they took what I had, verified it themselves, went to talk to Iyeman, who then decided to go nuke rogue on me, mysteriously got this screenshot of me saying it was all planned (a screenshot that stands up to no kind of scrutiny at all), decided to draw up plans to attack the 57th before contact was even made with me, and then, well... that's when this thread started.
[/quote]

Again I can't speak to the full timing of things as I don't know everything, nor can I speak to what your actions would have been.




[quote name='constapatedape' date='14 February 2010 - 06:21 PM' timestamp='1266189718' post='2181477']
wow...I've stayed silent on this issue but this statement is just completely and utterly wrong

Ven is one of the most genuine people I've met in all of CN and I have never known him to say anything but what he believes is the truth, nor in any instance have i ever heard any inkling of Ven plotting against anyone outside of during war

57th i you guys and know everything is going to work out for y'all
[/quote]

Perhaps you don't know people as well as you thought you did :/

[tarman2010]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 05:44 PM' timestamp='1266191070' post='2181513']
Perhaps you don't know people as well as you thought you did :/
[/quote]

Perhaps you don't know Veneke as well as you claim to...

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='tarman2010' date='14 February 2010 - 06:46 PM' timestamp='1266191197' post='2181519']
Perhaps you don't know Veneke as well as you claim to...
[/quote]

Perhaps, but when I'm shown previous occasions of him discussing spying on allies I tend to think that I know him better

[Earogema]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1266191526' post='2181524']
Perhaps, but when I'm shown previous occasions of him discussing spying on allies I tend to think that I know him better
[/quote]
Perhaps I don't know Veneke at all.

[tarman2010]

It's funny how I don't believe the current accusations of a person whose previous accusations have been built on false evidence.

[Chuck Normis]

[quote name='constapatedape' date='14 February 2010 - 11:21 PM' timestamp='1266189718' post='2181477']
wow...I've stayed silent on this issue but this statement is just completely and utterly wrong

Ven is one of the most genuine people I've met in all of CN and I have never known him to say anything but what he believes is the truth, nor in any instance have i ever heard any inkling of Ven plotting against anyone outside of during war

57th i you guys and know everything is going to work out for y'all
[/quote]

This is why I pay this man the big bucks! Oh wait...I pay him in gum. Never mind.

But yea. We have chosen to stay relatively quiet on this issue mainly because this stupid thing is going around and around in circles.

Veneke and the rest of 57th knows where we currently stand on this squabble, and it 'should' be obvious at this point (thanks ape ).

I think we all should just put down our blamethrowers and take a step (or more) back.

[Bower3aj]

believe what you will. I could care less if you believe me. The undeniable evidence exists on that point, but it's not mine to give out. So if you don't believe me I don't care, it could come back to bite you, or it could not. You roll your own dice.

[JWConner]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1266192923' post='2181581']
believe what you will. I could care less if you believe me. The undeniable evidence exists on that point, but it's not mine to give out. So if you don't believe me I don't care, it could come back to bite you, or it could not. You roll your own dice.
[/quote]

You talk about this evidence you have, about it being undeniable, yet it's completely deniable. The fact that someone forged documents to cause an ally of the 57th to drop their friendship and treaty and declare war on them should raise a few flags. You can claim this evidence is solid proof, but there's no such thing. None.

The only true facts of this matter are that you believed that your supposed friends/allies would spy on you and that you didn't wait til you could speak with said ally before attacking.

Everything else is speculation, no matter what your supposed experts have told you. You acted rash, you acted out of line, and you deserve the punishment that you have dished out to 57th.

GLoF has shown themselves to act on emotions instead of intelligence. That's a horrible cycle to start.

[Veneke]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1266191070' post='2181513']
A reasonable answer, though I wasn't holding it against you at all. Just merely pointing out to JW that a member of the lodge knowing you on an intimate level is a fool hearted argument to make. It's nothing against you.




I think the first part of your thing has been answered. We really just don't care if the SS that was provided by somebody other than you is real. It is merely what caused us to look at your images again. They looked at your images at said that they looked forged. That's what matters to us. That images given to us look forged to experts on the matter. Though I will say, if this is the largest coincidental jpeg ever, than you should be more concerned that there is a member of your alliance that wants to get you all rolled. That seems to be something that I would be worried about.



I cannot speak to any attempt to contact you. I don't know when it happened or how it happened. Sorry. But I will say that I believe his response to you being in a different time zone was something along the lines of we're all in different time zones.



Again I can't speak to the full timing of things as I don't know everything, nor can I speak to what your actions would have been.






Perhaps you don't know people as well as you thought you did :/
[/quote]




Penedono said the same thing, and the fact of the matter is that the screenshot you were given is extremely relevant to the discussions at hand. In the first instance, it was faked, and in the second instance whomever supplied that screenshot to you is manipulating you. Quite clearly because of its faked nature (I'll deal with the first screenshot momentarily) and what they probably expected to happen when they gave that screenshot to you. A deterioration of relations between the 57th and GLOF. They've managed to achieve their aim in that regard.

The first screenshot could all have been solved peacefully had you talked to us. This is why the whole thing is retarded. Look at any of my screenshots and you'll see the same grainy, inconsistency throughout. The darker numbers are as a result of this. Had you brought this to my attention, we would of course have dropped the issue (though Iyeman had attacked me at this stage, so how that would have gone down is a matter of speculation), but the charge nevertheless would have been dropped.

If you can't speak of who tried to contact me and when, then don't comment blindly on it like you have done up until now.

Your last point rings truer than you know... I thought I knew GLOF, thought I knew ye well enough that if someone had asked me if they would declare war on an ally over dubious evidence I could have confidently laughed in their faces. I appear to have been mistaken in that belief, and that is a sobering thought.


Edit: I forgot half a sentence.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Veneke

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='JWConner' date='14 February 2010 - 07:29 PM' timestamp='1266193780' post='2181612']
You talk about this evidence you have, about it being undeniable, yet it's completely deniable. The fact that someone forged documents to cause an ally of the 57th to drop their friendship and treaty and declare war on them should raise a few flags. You can claim this evidence is solid proof, but there's no such thing. None.

The only true facts of this matter are that you believed that your supposed friends/allies would spy on you and that you didn't wait til you could speak with said ally before attacking.

Everything else is speculation, no matter what your supposed experts have told you. You acted rash, you acted out of line, and you deserve the punishment that you have dished out to 57th.

GLoF has shown themselves to act on emotions instead of intelligence. That's a horrible cycle to start.
[/quote]

Perhaps you should look back at what I said. There is other things that exist in the world out side of the three images on our forums. Open to the public. They were not part of this DoW, but there are things out there that show Ven is at least willing to consider spying on an ally. Something tarman said wouldn't happen. But it has happened before. It's not an impossible concept for Ven to think of. He's thought of doing it before, those that he said it to essentially responded with a message of you're crazy and there's no reason to even think about doing that. But Ven merely laughed off the criticism.

[quote name='Veneke' date='14 February 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1266193871' post='2181617']
Penedono said the same thing, and the fact of the matter is that the screenshot you were given is extremely relevant to the discussions at hand. In the first instance, it was faked, and in the second instance whomever supplied that screenshot to you is manipulating you. Quite clearly because of its faked nature (I'll deal with the first screenshot momentarily) and what they probably expected to happen when they gave that screenshot to you. A deterioration of relations between the 57th and GLOF. They've managed to achieve their aim in that regard.
[/quote]

again, if you're SSs are just a case of a jpeg appearing shopped only around the important part of the information in some cosmic coincidence then [i]you[/i] should be the one worried about your own ranks trying to get you rolled.

But I don't believe that something with near impossible odds happened here. Apparently, there are some in the CN community that believe that something with such ridiculous odds happened here. But forgive me if I'm not so quick to jump to the conclusion that the improbably is the case.

Edited February 15, 2010 by Bower3aj

[JWConner]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 06:49 PM' timestamp='1266194989' post='2181666']
Perhaps you should look back at what I said. There is other things that exist in the world out side of the three images on our forums. Open to the public. They were not part of this DoW, but there are things out there that show Ven is at least willing to consider spying on an ally. Something tarman said wouldn't happen. But it has happened before. It's not an impossible concept for Ven to think of. He's thought of doing it before, those that he said it to essentially responded with a message of you're crazy and there's no reason to even think about doing that. But Ven merely laughed off the criticism.
[/quote]

Oh, I've read it all. Nothing jumps out that says Ven is guilty of anything, other than having shoddy allies in GLoF.

[Bower3aj]

as I said, not my evidence to give out. Perhaps you should re-read it. Perhaps you'd like to respond to my first response of you as well. or were you just going to skip over the part that you were wrong?

[Roosterton]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 05:09 PM' timestamp='1266196140' post='2181720']
as I said, not my evidence to give out. Perhaps you should re-read it. Perhaps you'd like to respond to my first response of you as well. or were you just going to skip over the part that you were wrong?
[/quote]

Why isn't it yours to give out? It's open to the public so anyone can see it, right....? Oh wait, there is none, that's why

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Bower3aj' date='14 February 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1266196140' post='2181720']
as I said, not my evidence to give out. Perhaps you should re-read it. Perhaps you'd like to respond to my first response of you as well. or were you just going to skip over the part that you were wrong?
[/quote]

You guys really should stay out of public to avoid damaging GLoF's reputation anymore than it has already been wrecked. Get some people who know what they are doing and try and fix this public face palm. And for the love of Admin, even if sometime in the future you find and ally who has done you wrong don't just up and attack them.

[Theoroshia]

[quote]...and to those who surrendered from the 57th so quickly, you're pathetic. I truly hope nobody from the 57th allows you to return. [/quote]
Those of us engaged who were out of money or just not able to continue the fight due to real life matters, etcetera were ordered to surrender.

I sure do hope Veneke lets me back :3

[raasaa]

[quote name='JWConner' date='14 February 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1266195697' post='2181707']
Oh, I've read it all. Nothing jumps out that says Ven is guilty of anything, other than having shoddy allies in GLoF.
[/quote]
You do realize that these so called shoddy allies were ready to goto hell and back in defense of 57th when they hit Browncoats on January 2nd or 3rd.

If their opinion of 57th and its leadership has changed in a span of 1 month.....then....there is more to it than meets the eye.....

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='raasaa' date='15 February 2010 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1266225715' post='2182650']
You do realize that these so called shoddy allies were ready to goto hell and back in defense of 57th when they hit Browncoats on January 2nd or 3rd.

If their opinion of 57th and its leadership has changed in a span of 1 month.....then....there is more to it than meets the eye.....
[/quote]
what he said.


and...

[quote]Originally Posted by all of you:
I dont think the first screenshot, the one with the IPs, is fake. Do an experiment on our own forum. Go to the "Currently Active Users" page and do a screenshot. Paste this into Paint. If you zoom in before you save the image, it looks clear. However, if you save the file as a JPEG, then zoom in, you get the exact same pixel disruption as appears in the screenshot in question. Hmmm.....[/quote]

For all of you who are having trouble understanding what's going on here, it's not the pixel disruption in the IP screen shot that is the problem.

[u]The problem is that the IP's are not disrupted the same[/u]. Normal pixel disruption would have made all the text equally blurry, but here [size="4"][b]the JackieChan IP is different from the other 3[/b][/size].

[url="http://www.square-n-compass.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?373-Public-Announcements"]Look again[/url].

Edited February 15, 2010 by bluesasquatch

[Coloradia]

For those who think that the IP being distorted in a different manner from the others is a sign that it is faked, look again, the "Location" column is similarly distorted for the JackieChan row it appears. Are you saying they put in a fake topic in that spot?

Heck, the entire row looks to be distorted, they must have faked the Location and Time columns as well for the JackieChan row right? Seriously, are you claiming they faked the whole row? You can't claim only part is faked based off the distortion, it's all or nothing here. The whole row is faked or nothing is. It's all disrupted differently from the others.

I'm not using any image stuff to zoom in, just the normal image to the naked eye, it's clear that the Location and Time columns look to be disrupted differently then the other rows as well. If zooming way in on them with image software shows that the distortions aren't the same then I'll be shocked.

Edited February 15, 2010 by The Great One

[bluesasquatch]

[quote name='The Great One' date='15 February 2010 - 05:37 PM' timestamp='1266255468' post='2183133']
The whole row is faked or nothing is. It's all disrupted differently from the others.[/quote]

Great, we agree, the whole row is disrupted differently from the others.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='bluesasquatch' date='15 February 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1266256223' post='2183154']
Great, we agree, the whole row is disrupted differently from the others.
[/quote]
Therefore am I to assume that it is the position of GLoF that the entire row is faked? Including the time? What reason would there be to insert a fake time? what reason would there be to fake what topic was being viewed?

If the disruption is your basis for calling it faked then you must agree that both Time and Location areas were faked as well.

[Arkarian]

What surprised me, is that the 57th would deal with screen shots at all (i'm not saying there fake, or real because i don't really care.) It was screen shots and a lack of daplomacy then that caused a little war for them a little more then a month ago