Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[pezstar]

[quote name='HellAngel' date='06 February 2010 - 11:36 AM' timestamp='1265474185' post='2164641']
You out of all people should know better. Grub gave his word, he went back on it. I know you guys dont like us, for whatever reason, but you cant possibly support this being done to anyone.
[/quote]


I do, actually. I completely support the war against your alliance for declaring an aggressive and completely CB-less war on one of my alliances closest allies, after my alliance expressly told your alliance not to do so. Why should I, specifically, of all people know better?

I was there. I know what Grub said. I know what STA said. I know that Grub never actually said he wouldn't honor his treaty with MK, but I also know that it was his intention not to do so. It's war. Things change. I don't necessarily like the way many, many things were handled or approached during this very dirty war, but I'm not going to stop supporting the alliance who has stood by our side for years, just because it's current leader has made some mistakes.

[Nedved I]

We could all white peace and roll Polaris. Seems like a fitting ending to this migraine headache of a war.

[HellAngel]

[quote name='pezstar' date='06 February 2010 - 05:51 PM' timestamp='1265475090' post='2164667']
I do, actually. I completely support the war against your alliance for declaring an aggressive and completely CB-less war on one of my alliances closest allies, after my alliance expressly told your alliance not to do so. Why should I, specifically, of all people know better?

I was there. I know what Grub said. I know what STA said. I know that Grub never actually said he wouldn't honor his treaty with MK, but I also know that it was his intention not to do so. It's war. Things change. I don't necessarily like the way many, many things were handled or approached during this very dirty war, but I'm not going to stop supporting the alliance who has stood by our side for years, just because it's current leader has made some mistakes.
[/quote]

I dont exactly know what happened between STA and TOP, but i know what happened between TOP and Polaris. So if Grub was so against us declaring war on CnG why did he not simply hold us back? It would have taken one word from him and the thing would have been off the table. Would have spared TOP and Polaris a lot of trouble.

[pezstar]

[quote name='HellAngel' date='06 February 2010 - 11:54 AM' timestamp='1265475279' post='2164675']
I dont exactly know what happened between STA and TOP, but i know what happened between TOP and Polaris. So if Grub was so against us declaring war on CnG why did he not simply hold us back? It would have taken one word from him and the thing would have been off the table. Would have spared TOP and Polaris a lot of trouble.
[/quote]


He wasn't against it. He said so himself. And you do know what happened between STA and TOP. I posted that conversation in its very own thread, just a few days ago.

Edited February 6, 2010 by pezstar

[tamerlane]

[quote name='HellAngel' date='06 February 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1265475279' post='2164675']
I dont exactly know what happened between STA and TOP, but i know what happened between TOP and Polaris. So if Grub was so against us declaring war on CnG why did he not simply hold us back? It would have taken one word from him and the thing would have been off the table. Would have spared TOP and Polaris a lot of trouble.
[/quote]

You mean you hedged this entire war on Polaris totally ignoring its treaty obligations?! Did you not consider that had they not honored them that they were damned either way? Geez; coming from the alliance who was so about playing the whole "damned if we do, damned if we don't" victim card, Im quite surprised at you.

[SeraphimJulius]

This war has gone from utterly stupid, to WTF Why the hell am I even fighting?!?!

I doubt White Peace is even possible, hell I know I won't be happy until at least one alliance from the "other" side burns to the ground for all this foolishness.

[mhawk]

[quote name='pezstar' date='06 February 2010 - 08:55 AM' timestamp='1265475329' post='2164676']
He wasn't against it. He said so himself. And you do know what happened between STA and TOP. I posted that conversation in its very own thread, just a few days ago.
[/quote]
That thread was just a convo ivan you and uhtred had with myself. You know full well I wasn't the one organizing the attack. I did relay that convo to TOP but from what was said to me there must have been other conversations happening besides the side talk we had.

[SiCkO]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='06 February 2010 - 08:57 AM' timestamp='1265475448' post='2164678']
You mean you hedged this entire war on Polaris totally ignoring its treaty obligations?! Did you not consider that had they not honored them that they were damned either way? Geez; coming from the alliance who was so about playing the whole "damned if we do, damned if we don't" victim card, Im quite surprised at you.
[/quote]

read the thread please

i think LF sums up the war nicely. The Legion was there for UPN originally (then for other allies)who knew that if we sat back and watched our side burn we would be isolated in a world that only cares about finishing what karma started. I have no idea why grub decided to change his mind when he gave TOP and IRON the ok. Regardless, this really changes nothing for us, we will continue to fight with our allies and friends (TOP included).

[tamerlane]

[quote name='SiCkO' date='06 February 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1265476308' post='2164700']
read the thread please

i think LF sums up the war nicely. The Legion was there for UPN originally (then for other allies)who knew that if we sat back and watched our side burn we would be isolated in a world that only cares about finishing what karma started. I have no idea why grub decided to change his mind when he gave TOP and IRON the ok. Regardless, this really changes nothing for us, we will continue to fight with our allies and friends (TOP included).
[/quote]


Maybe he was delivering us our grudge match on a silver platter. No one knows the wierding ways of Grub and no one will ever know.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='mdnss69' date='06 February 2010 - 11:14 AM' timestamp='1265472896' post='2164598']
Did you Polar really too stupid too remember?
[/quote]
I lol'd all over myself when I read this.



[quote name='SeraphimJulius' date='06 February 2010 - 12:08 PM' timestamp='1265476120' post='2164693']
This war has gone from utterly stupid, to WTF Why the hell am I even fighting?!?!

I doubt White Peace is even possible, hell I know I won't be happy until at least one alliance from the "other" side burns to the ground for all this foolishness.
[/quote]
I agree 100%. This war is really stupid. It hasn't gotten any "smarter" as time went on, either. I halfass supported Polar's original intent to beat up on \m/, since it was nothing more than the exact same thing \m/, PC & teh goonies had just finished doing, but at this point, the only motivation I have is to see my allies get through this.

[x Tela x]

[quote name='SiCkO' date='06 February 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1265476308' post='2164700']
read the thread please

i think LF sums up the war nicely. The Legion was there for UPN originally (then for other allies)who knew that if we sat back and watched our side burn we would be isolated in a world that only cares about finishing what karma started. I have no idea why grub decided to change his mind when he gave TOP and IRON the ok. Regardless, this really changes nothing for us, we will continue to fight with our allies and friends (TOP included).
[/quote]

[i]Next time[/i] (lol), get Polaris to sign a NAP with a supremacy clause attached.

[SeraphimJulius]

[quote name='SiCkO' date='06 February 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1265476308' post='2164700']
read the thread please

i think LF sums up the war nicely. The Legion was there for UPN originally (then for other allies)who knew that if we sat back and watched our side burn we would be isolated in a world that only cares about finishing what karma started. I have no idea why grub decided to change his mind when he gave TOP and IRON the ok. Regardless, this really changes nothing for us, we will continue to fight with our allies and friends (TOP included).
[/quote]


So you guys decided it would be best to start back up the feuds from the Karma war, because you felt diplomacy would not work? Or maybe trying to making friends on their side would not work? Yeah I can understand you do not agree with some things alliances like \m/do...but do you really feel like your accomplished your goal of not becoming isolated from the "other" side? This war won't end nicely for the loser, and most if not all of Planet Bob is glowing green because of foolish actions made by a few people....
Good job I guess?

[pezstar]

[quote name='mhawk' date='06 February 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1265476294' post='2164699']
That thread was just a convo ivan you and uhtred had with myself. You know full well I wasn't the one organizing the attack. I did relay that convo to TOP but from what was said to me there must have been other conversations happening besides the side talk we had.
[/quote]

I'm sure there were, however that conversation was the only one in which anyone approached STA directly about it.

[mhawk]

[quote name='pezstar' date='06 February 2010 - 09:22 AM' timestamp='1265476936' post='2164720']
I'm sure there were, however that conversation was the only one in which anyone approached STA directly about it.
[/quote]
Well all I can say is what I told TOP before that it would be a disaster... I think the tag line will become, "shoulda just hit athens"

[SiCkO]

[quote name='SeraphimJulius' date='06 February 2010 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1265476872' post='2164719']
So you guys decided it would be best to start back up the feuds from the Karma war, because you felt diplomacy would not work? Or maybe trying to making friends on their side would not work? Yeah I can understand you do not agree with some things alliances like \m/do...but do you really feel like your accomplished your goal of not becoming isolated from the "other" side? This war won't end nicely for the loser, and most if not all of Planet Bob is glowing green because of foolish actions made by a few people....
Good job I guess?
[/quote]


CnG/most of the "other side" have not acted in a way that has made us feel comfortable with them. We pick our friends well, people who we can trust to have our backs.

[SeraphimJulius]

[quote name='SiCkO' date='06 February 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1265477318' post='2164735']
CnG/most of the "other side" have not acted in a way that has made us feel comfortable with them. We pick our friends well, people who we can trust to have our backs.
[/quote]


Well that totally worked out this time huh? I mean there was no way trying to have level headed conversations with both sides could ever work...well not until the surrender terms come into play I guess...

[pezstar]

[quote name='mhawk' date='06 February 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1265477136' post='2164732']
Well all I can say is what I told TOP before that it would be a disaster... I think the tag line will become, "shoulda just hit athens"
[/quote]

I know you did. I don't blame you at all.

[kpcurley]

[quote name='Crymson' date='06 February 2010 - 12:54 AM' timestamp='1265435693' post='2163314']
I'll dispense with the usual format of flag signatures and keep this straight and to the point instead.

Well before we, IRON and TORN attacked MK and GR, we were notified by Grub that he would not honor the treaties he had with those two alliances. We came into this war alongside Polaris and we were given statements in poor faith.



For only the second time in this game---the first was seeing the NPO declare war on OV and starting the Karma War, right in the middle of negotiations I was mediating between the two alliances---I find myself speechless.
[/quote]

You sir would make a terrible lawyer. No where does Grub say that he will no attack TOP, all he said is he approves of you war plans. there could be any number of reasons he approved of your plans, it could of been to roll you for all we know. This is a poor post designed to defame an alliances on half truths and log dumps. Fight you war, and quit with the "no u".

[SpoiL]

[quote name='kpcurley' date='06 February 2010 - 12:39 PM' timestamp='1265477973' post='2164749']
You sir would make a terrible lawyer. No where does Grub say that he will no attack TOP, all he said is he approves of you war plans. there could be any number of reasons he approved of your plans, it could of been to roll you for all we know. This is a poor post designed to defame an alliances on half truths and log dumps. Fight you war, and quit with the "no u".
[/quote]

Don't do this to yourself. More importantly, don't degrade NpO to such a petty argument.

[Nintenderek]

Damnit Crymson. I was confused enough as it was with this war. You didn't have to screw things up and get me even more confused.

[skokie]

TOP, you are not acting as a respectable alliance, did you ever hear of the "KISS principle" ?

You attacked C&G to defend a "friend" who you had no treaty with... we can analyze and argue the reasoning behind it, but we are using the KISS principle here, which are the first 2 words of this... YOU ATTACKED.

Now, you are angry over NpO for declaring on you? after you realize that they have a treaty with MK...? you know lets say you are right and NpO did say "we wont attack you" what people say doesn't really mean anything, thats why we sign a treaty. Every alliance in this game has "friends" or "promises" something, but unless NPO had a treaty obligation to you... you have NO RIGHT to be "OFFENDED"

i think what it comes down to, is it took you guys years to get where you are, powerful, strong, rich and just being the "popular kid" in the room, but now you are losing it all away in under 2 weeks... this is the simple explanation of your situation.

[Bad JuJu]

[quote name='Nedved I' date='06 February 2010 - 08:53 AM' timestamp='1265475234' post='2164673']
We could all white peace and roll Polaris. Seems like a fitting ending to this migraine headache of a war.
[/quote]

On a strictly personal level this seems to be the only logical course of action.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Bad JuJu

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='pezstar' date='06 February 2010 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1265476936' post='2164720']
I'm sure there were, however that conversation was the only one in which anyone approached STA directly about it.
[/quote]

That you were aware of. I believe I spoke with uthred about it, and I know Moridin had said he had spoken with him about it as well and gotten an "ok" from STA. Now it could be that that was just another lie.

[The Warrior]

Well this was shocking. This war really is becoming more and more ridiculous.

[LiquidMercury]

[quote name='skokie' date='06 February 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1265479220' post='2164776']
TOP, you are not acting as a respectable alliance, did you ever hear of the "KISS principle" ?

You attacked C&G to defend a "friend" who you had no treaty with... we can analyze and argue the reasoning behind it, but we are using the KISS principle here, which are the first 2 words of this... YOU ATTACKED.

Now, you are angry over NpO for declaring on you? after you realize that they have a treaty with MK...? you know lets say you are right and NpO did say "we wont attack you" what people say doesn't really mean anything, thats why we sign a treaty. Every alliance in this game has "friends" or "promises" something, but unless NPO had a treaty obligation to you... you have NO RIGHT to be "OFFENDED"

i think what it comes down to, is it took you guys years to get where you are, powerful, strong, rich and just being the "popular kid" in the room, but now you are losing it all away in under 2 weeks... this is the simple explanation of your situation.
[/quote]

No. We've known from the start what the treaty web looked like. We took polaris at their word when we were told they would not be activating that treaty. Just like we took MHA at their word for not defending us, like we took Umbrella for their word. Though both legally had a way to do so, we take people at their word. At least Umbrella was absolutely straight up with us. What you fail to understand is that treaties very rarely mean anything just like people's word in this game. Sad but true, I saw it in Karma, I saw it again during WWE, and now. Treaties are only a means of convenience, and it has just been proven once more. Right now, the only ones doing it right are Gremlins with their singular treaty and FAN with their secret treaties.