Imperial Decree - New Polar

[Xiphosis]

[quote]You know, that is very reminiscent of the Pax Pacifica era. "We must remove the threat to our alliance by giving them harsh terms after stomping them"[/quote]

No, actually, it isn't. For one, we won against Pacifica and their "friends" (I quote for the bailout) which makes it unlike GW1. For two, we let them off [b]free[/b] and clear, the exceptions being Echelon and NPO (Echelon, you'll note, redec'd both in TPF and this - not that they can help much ).

Valhalla, NATO, CDT and countless others from the Hegemony side in Karma have all come out on the same side to oppose us since the Karma War - first in TPF and now in this. TPF was justifiable, we hit first and it's one of the reasons peace was offered so early; it felt wrong to do.

But this war isn't. You attacked without provocation, and all of you jumped in following them. It's for this you don't deserve, nor should you expect, a shred of mercy. You reoffended when you were given a chance (against my advice) and now you've validated my prediction.

Good going, enjoy the grave.

[Urmom]

[quote name='neneko' date='06 February 2010 - 02:01 AM' timestamp='1265439701' post='2163748']
The "ur worse than NPO!!!!" argument is getting kinda tame now that NPO is neutral and all their evils have faded from our memories.

They need to disband an alliance or something, just a small one would do.
[/quote]
NPO's actions have "faded" from our memories? TPF was just attacked with a 6 month CB from the same war. Looks like a lot of your allies still remember. I just think it's hilarious that you guys led a huge Karma coalition not so long ago and now are trying to impose much of what they did, and what you fought against. Well, it's predictable at least. Those in power seek to retain power by any means. When they are the underdogs, it's immoral to do such acts. But when in power, who cares? Anyways, have fun everybody. You can destroy our nations, but at this point we don't really care, hence us gaining members during the war. Best of luck to everyone.

[neneko]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='06 February 2010 - 08:06 AM' timestamp='1265439964' post='2163773']
So you guys weren't going to honor your treaty with PC?
[/quote]
We had treaty connections to both sides. Is "you're treatied to our enemy" a valid cb now? Cause that's pretty sweet. Makes declaring war a whole lot easier now with this tangled treaty web we have.

[Hayzell]

[quote name='TheNeverender' date='06 February 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1265439248' post='2163698']
They attacked me. They brought war to my alliance, and I have no reason to doubt they will do it again. Clearly lack of a just cause, or any cause at all, is not something to stand in their way.

Much as I am not enthusiastic, I must take steps to defend my alliance and my allies before I can advocate peace.
[/quote]

The simplest and most effective means of ensuring we would not want to go to war with you again would have been to offer white peace. This would have assuaged all hostilities towards you, and without the grave cost of your nations and allies nations burning. You could have even kept that morale high ground you've worked so hard to attain over the past year. Instead you will attempt to annihilate us, forcing us into a survival position in which those you say you wish to protect will only endure unncessary harm.

[size=2][quote name='Penlugue Solaris' date='06 February 2010 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1265440078' post='2163782']

By attacking us, they have CREATED the danger to their existence, and shown us that they are a danger to ours.
[/quote]

[/size][size=2]Rather than breaking the cycle you have only exacerbated it, and certainly done nothing to make anyone think the perceptions were unfounded.[/size]

Edited February 6, 2010 by Hayzell

[Willaim Kreiger]

[img]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9758/dramameteryf3.png[/img]

Black. Just sayin'

[Bob]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='06 February 2010 - 02:08 AM' timestamp='1265440116' post='2163785']
I was under the impression that CnG was a MDAP bloc. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance of that fact
[/quote]
..we still hold no treaty with PC. I apologize that FoB and Athens do.

In terms of either of them honoring a treaty with PC, I doubt it (PC wasn't attacked).

[pasquali]

Meh - I withdraw my earlier statement after seeing the logs posted by Crymson. I did not know that conversation had taken place.

"Well before we, IRON and TORN attacked MK and GR, we were notified by Grub that he would not honor the treaties he had with those two alliances. We came in on Polaris's front and we were given statements in poor faith. "

For starters, if Grub did not intend to honor those treaties, he should have cancelled them then and there. Period.

Second, telling TOP & IRON (who were coming in on his side, regardless of what the DoWs said) that he wouldn't honor them and then choosing to honor them later is a betrayal/setup of the highest order.

My sentiments toward GR and MK remain the same.

TOP, splatter Polaris all over the ice.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='R3nowned' date='06 February 2010 - 02:08 AM' timestamp='1265440116' post='2163785']
I was under the impression that CnG was a MDAP bloc. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance of that fact
[/quote]

I was under the impression that there are six current signatories to the CnG MDAP bloc. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance of that fact

[Seerow]

[quote name='Hayzell' date='06 February 2010 - 02:10 AM' timestamp='1265440232' post='2163796']
The simplest and most effective means of ensuring we would not want to go to war with you again would have been to offer white peace. This would have assuaged all hostilities towards you, and without the grave cost of your nations and allies nations burning. You could have even kept that morale high ground you've worked so hard to attain over the past year. Instead you will attempt to annihilate us, forcing us into a survival position in which those you say you wish to protect will only endure unncessary harm.
[/quote]

As Xiphosis pointed out: This worked so well with the Hegemony alliances in the Karma war who aren't lining up here against us again. White peace doesn't create any good will, and anyone saying otherwise is trying to argue in favor of a white peace for themselves or an ally.

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='AirMe' date='05 February 2010 - 11:09 PM' timestamp='1265440185' post='2163790']

Care to tell me what that passage means? Because I am pretty sure I have interpreted correctly.
[/quote]

You know, I'm surprised that no none has asked this question before but...
"For our part, however, much our reason to enter this war lies in our desire to defeat those who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda---and that, indeed, they would take advantage of any advantageous opportunity to do so. This is a war they have brought upon themselves."

Where is the evidence for this?

[TheEraser]

[quote name='Boondock' date='06 February 2010 - 12:50 AM' timestamp='1265435454' post='2163275']
I can't believe NpO would follow through on such a request, after TOP came in to help them.
[/quote]
It was not a request we had the conenience of ignoring. They activated our treaty and as much love has been lost latelty that doesn't absolve us of our responsibilities.

Grub I will follow you wherever you choose to take us.

O/ polaris

[Lord GVChamp]

[quote name='AirMe' date='06 February 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1265440185' post='2163790']
And I quote



Care to tell me what that passage means? Because I am pretty sure I have interpreted correctly.
[/quote]
It means you have expressed open hostility repeatedly

EDIT: Or, rather, that CnG has

Edited February 6, 2010 by Lord GVChamp

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I've been calling this 'The Great Convoluted War" for a very long time. Any other name is not sufficient.

[neneko]

[quote name='Urmom(U)' date='06 February 2010 - 08:10 AM' timestamp='1265440200' post='2163793']
NPO's actions have "faded" from our memories? TPF was just attacked with a 6 month CB from the same war. Looks like a lot of your allies still remember. I just think it's hilarious that you guys led a huge Karma coalition not so long ago and now are trying to impose much of what they did, and what you fought against. Well, it's predictable at least. Those in power seek to retain power by any means. When they are the underdogs, it's immoral to do such acts. But when in power, who cares? Anyways, have fun everybody. You can destroy our nations, but at this point we don't really care, hence us gaining members during the war. Best of luck to everyone.
[/quote]
Just a quick reminder cause I'm pretty forgetful (you already saw that with the NPO deeds). What hegemonic terms have we imposed this war? Or any other war betwen this one and karma for that matter. I try to come up with the hegemonic terms we imposed but for some reason I can't recall any of them.

[BDRocks]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='05 February 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1265440329' post='2163802']
You know, I'm surprised that no none has asked this question before but...
"For our part, however, much our reason to enter this war lies in our desire to defeat those who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda---and that, indeed, they would take advantage of any advantageous opportunity to do so. This is a war they have brought upon themselves."

Where is the evidence for this?
[/quote]
Check TOP/IRON DoW on CnG

[Jack Diorno]

Well.
With this DoW, the war is officially beyond any kind of comprehension.

good job NpO o/

[AirMe]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='06 February 2010 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1265440329' post='2163802']
You know, I'm surprised that no none has asked this question before but...
"For our part, however, much our reason to enter this war lies in our desire to defeat those who have shown time and time again, in public and in private, that doing harm to us is high on their agenda---and that, indeed, they would take advantage of any advantageous opportunity to do so. This is a war they have brought upon themselves."

Where is the evidence for this?
[/quote]

There is none. They just like screaming C&G is evil.

[Merrie Melodies]

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that Grub had planned on supporting MK all along, when NSO didn't get white peaced at the conclusion of the NpO-\m/ war it became more complicated.
Just my two cents.

Grub, two weeks ago I was
One week ago I was
Now I am

The world is going to miss leaders like you. If not for you we would all still be doing the basic routine maintenance on our nations and yammering away about when something exciting will kick up.

[Bob]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='06 February 2010 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1265440376' post='2163804']
It means you have expressed open hostility repeatedly

EDIT: Or, rather, that CnG has
[/quote]
Who /havent/ we expressed open hostility to repeatedly?

[Un4Gvn1]

This is the most ridiculous crock of nonsense I've seen in all my time on Bob.



[quote][22:48] <Crymson[TOP]> Do you acknowledge that you yourself, before our attacks on MK and GR, stated all of the following: [b]your approval of our war plans against those alliances, your intention to not honor those treaties in this instance, and your agreement that our attack was part of the greater war against \m/ and their allies?[/b]
[22:49] <AlmightyGrub> correct
[22:49] <Crymson[TOP]> You acknowledge all of the above?
[22:49] <AlmightyGrub> yes
[22:49] <Crymson[TOP]> Great.
[22:49] <AlmightyGrub> I have never said I dont
[22:49] <Crymson[TOP]> I'm sure you have no issue with me posting that segment on the OWF.
[22:49] <Crymson[TOP]> Is that correct?
[22:50] <AlmightyGrub> do whatever you feel you need to Crymson[/quote]

Nothing left to say.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Peggy_Sue

[AirMe]

[quote name='Lord GVChamp' date='06 February 2010 - 02:12 AM' timestamp='1265440376' post='2163804']
It means you have expressed open hostility repeatedly

EDIT: Or, rather, that CnG has
[/quote]

So they took the opportunity to attack when they had the advantage? So why is it unreasonable to expect C&G would fight at least until they took the advantage away?

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='CaptainImpavid' date='06 February 2010 - 02:06 AM' timestamp='1265439973' post='2163774']
some people, when they want to retire, go nuke rogue on a few nations.

some people, however, BURN DOWN THE WORLD.

/godspeed, Grub.
[/quote]

I told someone his behavior reminded me of a Mayor in Sim City after he's done building his city in the game. Only thing left to do is torment the poor sims. Grub just forgot his citizens have souls ^..^

[R3nowned]

[quote]
We had treaty connections to both sides. Is "you're treatied to our enemy" a valid cb now? Cause that's pretty sweet. Makes declaring war a whole lot easier now with this tangled treaty web we have.[/quote]

[quote name='Leet Guy' date='06 February 2010 - 05:11 PM' timestamp='1265440315' post='2163800']
I was under the impression that there are six current signatories to the CnG MDAP bloc. If I'm wrong, please excuse my ignorance of that fact
[/quote]
Yes, and PC has MDoAPs with Athens and FoB, which is what I'm getting at.

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='BDRocks' date='05 February 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1265440399' post='2163808']
Check TOP/IRON DoW on CnG
[/quote]

I'm reading over the thread right now. The OP contains no evidence of CnG's aggressive actions towards TOP and I don't know if anyone posted any evidence after the first 10 pages.

[Darth Blitzer]

i for one hail Grub, you have made this a truly interesting and fun war to watch unfold, i mean who needs sides anyway, bring on the chaos