A Statement from the STA

[Remaliat]

STA understand perhaps better then most the difficulties we were wrestling with prior to our declaration of GOD, and while NSO asked for our assistance where as MK and GR did not to us led us to assisting the New Sith Order. The fact that MK has requested the assistance of STA means that I not only completely understand STA's move here but I respect it and understand it.

Good luck to my favourite Tyga's and know that we still have your backs, even in this war.

[trance addict]

[quote name='bzelger' date='03 February 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1265217557' post='2156746']
Vanguard and MK are not interchangable, and the treaties do not have provision for jumping ship when we feel slighted regardless.
[/quote]


Is there not a cancellation clause? I mean if you do feel slighted then that might be the enough is enough, to reconsider the treaties held with those alliances.

Please don't take the above statement as my view of what you should or shouldn't do. I am not in your alliance, nor do I have all the facts. My comment is merely an alternate view based on your statement. Unless you have a non-cancellation clause ie. MHA-Gre, then you should have a provision for jumping ship (such an ugly conotation)as you put it.

[Branimir]

I am developing a headache right now.

I am sure you STA folk have a bad one already.

This war is really pushing the envelope of absurdity.
Hopefully, on the other hand, you also enjoy the madness that consumed the world.

[Chickenzilla]

[quote name='elpadrino' date='03 February 2010 - 11:15 AM' timestamp='1265217309' post='2156739']
seen that they went so fast for a treaty with an entire bloc (STICKMEN) when you where going to go to war against them (many vangard members already stated in the declaration thread so clear that they knew your position but that they were going to join against your side) I wouldn´t have defended them now but its an understable and honorable position.
good luck and have fun

About Vanguard/MK requesting your help now after the STICKMEN move due to elaws --->
[/quote]
I don't recall Stickmen being used at all against STA.

[bzelger]

[quote name='trance addict' date='03 February 2010 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1265219445' post='2156791']
Is there not a cancellation clause? I mean if you do feel slighted then that might be the enough is enough, to reconsider the treaties held with those alliances.

Please don't take the above statement as my view of what you should or shouldn't do. I am not in your alliance, nor do I have all the facts. My comment is merely an alternate view based on your statement. Unless you have a non-cancellation clause ie. MHA-Gre, then you should have a provision for jumping ship (such an ugly conotation)as you put it.
[/quote]
There is a cancellation clause, yes. Had we activated it in time then we could have avoided any obligation to Vanguard. The cancellation clause is not a get-out-of-jail free card and the treaty would have remained active for three days.

We still would be obligated to MK in that instance regardless (and we are entering here at the request of MK), even if a "slight" translated automatically to treaty termination - which it doesn't. It's entirely moot at this point.

[Ragashingo]

[quote name='trance addict' date='03 February 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1265219445' post='2156791']
Is there not a cancellation clause? I mean if you do feel slighted then that might be the enough is enough, to reconsider the treaties held with those alliances.

Please don't take the above statement as my view of what you should or shouldn't do. I am not in your alliance, nor do I have all the facts. My comment is merely an alternate view based on your statement. Unless you have a non-cancellation clause ie. MHA-Gre, then you should have a provision for jumping ship (such an ugly conotation)as you put it.
[/quote]

I think it should be fairly obvious to anyone reading this topic that we are on good terms with MK. As for Vanguard, yes there were some issues recently but those can and will be evaluated when the time is right. That is, when we aren't in the middle of a huge war. Likewise canceling on a MDP partner while they are in the middle of a war is, to me at least, beyond tacky. Cowardly even. Will we cancel and rearrange our treaties after this war? I don't think any of us know the answer to that yet. But you can count on us doing things a rational and honorable manner.

And to all of those suggesting we are simply jumping on the winning side: Grow the heck up.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='03 February 2010 - 01:50 AM' timestamp='1265179832' post='2155884']
No, they are not. They are belittling you, as you put it, because for quite a long time people have done nothing but call us infra huggers/cowards/ect... and that we would run at the sight of a real war or atleast surrender in less than a week. It's completely logical and necessary for you to call in allies but we just find it all hilarious because of the attitudes you all expressed for so long.
[/quote]
Show me where I have done this, old friend.

[SpiderJerusalem]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='03 February 2010 - 06:50 AM' timestamp='1265179832' post='2155884']
It's completely logical and necessary for you to call in allies but we just find it all hilarious because of the attitudes you all expressed for so long.
[/quote]

They are calling in allies much because you attacked them with [i]your[/i] strongest ally. If you had attacked them alone, they would have stood alone as well

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='03 February 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1265203703' post='2156372']
I hear NpO is an ally of yours too, how's that assistance going for them?
[/quote]

I am certain you know the answer to that question, as your alliance is currently attacking them

[Stumpy Jung Il]

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='03 February 2010 - 02:05 PM' timestamp='1265223955' post='2156893']
They are calling in allies much because you attacked them with [i]your[/i] strongest ally. If you had attacked them alone, they would have stood alone as well
[/quote]
This is also a good point. You did bring the 3rd or 4th biggest alliance in the game with you, so your point that we needed to call in allies seems silly because you apparently felt the same way.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='03 February 2010 - 07:08 PM' timestamp='1265224126' post='2156894']
This is also a good point. You did bring the 3rd or 4th biggest alliance in the game with you, so your point that we needed to call in allies seems silly because you apparently felt the same way.
[/quote]
Feanor obviously doesn't think of IRON as being a separate alliance from TOP.

[Kryptonite]

I know that this was a difficult decision for our government to make, but for as long as I have known STA I have had nothing but an honorable impression - hence why I recently joined. I think that the "sad, but necessary" meme is appropriate here. This was not a position we would choose to be in, but we shall defend allies and honor our treaties. Many alliances on the "other side" (though I don't see a real collusion going on, therefore I don't view 'sides') have entered in support of allies though it may mean severe damage to their nations. I respect that just as many of you respect our decision to declare in defense of an ally that was attacked.

I wish for an honorable and well-fought war. Thanks to those who have opened their minds and used rational thought to come to conclusions about the situation. I hope others may follow you.

[King Srqt]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='03 February 2010 - 08:28 AM' timestamp='1265203703' post='2156372']
I hear NpO is an ally of yours too, how's that assistance going for them?
[/quote]
Probably about as well as the assistance MK is getting from NpO

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' date='03 February 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1265224126' post='2156894']
This is also a good point. You did bring the 3rd or 4th biggest alliance in the game with you, so your point that we needed to call in allies seems silly because you apparently felt the same way.
[/quote]
Your misunderstanding what I'm saying here. The reason we are "belittling" you is because of the attitudes many people on your side have of us. Notice how we are not hating on the people who are coming to your assistance. We fully understood that from a numbers perspective that you would have to call in alot of people to fight us and we knew that would happen.

The thing that [i]amuses[/i] us is that you guys (and others) have portrayed us, for a very long time, as an inflated alliance full of cowards and pushovers but yet you need so much help to even try and drag us down.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Feanor Noldorin

[Stumpy Jung Il]

[quote name='tamerlane' date='03 February 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1265227122' post='2156948']
Feanor obviously doesn't think of IRON as being a separate alliance from TOP.
[/quote]
I don't really blame him, all things considered.

@ Feanor: This is a really pointless debate so I think Ill just say no u and leave it at that.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Stumpy Jung Il

[mhawk]

I guess my one question here is if you were intent on doing this, why didn't you state as such when you knew about the attack. Perhaps it would have been useful to the people that were preparing to defend you and your polar allies if you said, "if x is attacked, we will defend them." Instead of "we know about the plan, but we're just going to pretend we didn't." ?

Edited February 3, 2010 by mhawk

[Carfre Inpor]

This must have been a very hard decision to come to. I always will hail the STA for Polar is always your ally!

o/ STA!

[HeinousOne]

[quote name='Chickenzilla' date='03 February 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1265220276' post='2156813']
I don't recall Stickmen being used at all against STA.
[/quote]

No, in order to use it against us we probably would have had to have been told about it first off.

[quote name='mhawk' date='03 February 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1265235081' post='2157225']
I guess my one question here is if you were intent on doing this, why didn't you state as such when you knew about the attack. Perhaps it would have been useful to the people that were preparing to defend you and your polar allies if you said, "if x is attacked, we will defend them." Instead of "we know about the plan, but we're just going to pretend we didn't." ?
[/quote]

We all saw what Pez shared. She said we didn't care if Athens is attacked (apology was given) but dont attack our ally MK. That is your problem you have a problem understanding something that simple. I know you don't need everything spelled out letter by letter for you Mhawk.

[Dujek Onearm]

We know too well how this kind of decision can be difficult. Much respect for you, STA.

Good fighting and show them hell.

[GeoLauzier]

Thanks STA. Hope we'll be able to pay it back.

[mhawk]

[quote name='HeinousOne' date='03 February 2010 - 02:19 PM' timestamp='1265235552' post='2157241']


We all saw what Pez shared. She said we didn't care if Athens is attacked (apology was given) but dont attack our ally MK. That is your problem you have a problem understanding something that simple. I know you don't need everything spelled out letter by letter for you Mhawk.
[/quote]
I know what she said there, I'm curious about this part of it.

[quote]
20:02 pezstar|afk: You have a leak in your small group of "in the know people."
1020:04 mhawk: ?
20:04…pezstar|afk: I know that TOP is hitting Vanguard. And I didn't learn it from someone over here.
1020:04…mhawk: i didnt know who top was hitting
1020:04…mhawk: i told them not to hit vanguard
1020:05…mhawk: so it wsn't from me
20:05…pezstar|afk: I know it wasn't. I'm just letting you know that there is a leak.
1020:05…mhawk: ah
1020:05…mhawk: I wouldnt have asked for your guys thoughts then just go... hehehe we should do the opposite!
1020:05…mhawk:
20:06…pezstar|afk: Our thoughts are that "Whoa! They hit C&G! What a surprise! I had no idea!"
20:06…pezstar|afk: We have no idea about that plan.
20:07…pezstar|afk: Ok. I'm going back to afk mode.

-- Just for clarification I wasn't involved in the planning of IRON/TOP hit on CnG. I pulled sta and nso aside out of curiosity and concern and relayed that convo to TOP.

What I'm getting at is if you guys were committed to defending in the event TOP and IRON did this, it sure would have helped to have mentioned it hours before the attack so someone could have stopped it. :/

Edited February 3, 2010 by mhawk

[HeinousOne]

[quote name='mhawk' date='03 February 2010 - 10:22 PM' timestamp='1265235754' post='2157251']


What I'm getting at is if you guys were committed to defending in the event TOP and IRON did this, it sure would have helped to have mentioned it hours before the attack so someone could have stopped it. :/
[/quote]

Aww you would have stopped the show for little ole us? I feel the love mhawk but I am having a hard time believing it. Still though, we all saw the quote of her saying just hit Athens and not Mushroom. Mushroom was attacked....I think she made it pretty clear myself.

[bzelger]

I wasn't involved in any of those discussions or more than even peripherally aware of them, so I'll leave the specifics to Pez. I will say though, that the ar\m/istice took us by surprise just as much as anyone else and we had no intentions of jumping sides at the time. Even with the flouting of our wishes and hitting MK/Vanguard we were fighting an outnumbered war and couldn't have offered more than token support to them.

[mhawk]

[quote name='HeinousOne' date='03 February 2010 - 02:30 PM' timestamp='1265236247' post='2157271']
Aww you would have stopped the show for little ole us? I feel the love mhawk but I am having a hard time believing it. Still though, we all saw the quote of her saying just hit Athens and not Mushroom. Mushroom was attacked....I think she made it pretty clear myself.
[/quote]
I couldn't stop a show that I wasn't running heinous. However I think at the point where you guys were well aware of the situation, moreso than I, it would have been a good time to state you'd join the other side if the attack happened instead of relaying that message. Either way what is done is done and very hard not to feel quite a bit of disappointment in this announcement.

Edited February 3, 2010 by mhawk

[Nick1a]

Thanks for the support STA

[pezstar]

We never thought it would be necessary to say "Hey, we will honor our treaties." In fact, if you re-read the original logs that I posted about this, you'll see that I specifically stated that you'd be attacking them with us unable to defend. There's no way we could have defended while we were at war.

As for your logs, it was not a "Hey, go plan this while we pretend we didn't know about it" thing. It was a "We already said no, we're not helping you plan this, so we are pretending we don't know about it" thing. Perhaps I could have worded it a bit differently, but there was a lifetime supply of crap going on that day.