An Echelon Announcement

[HellAngel]

[quote name='Lusitan' date='31 January 2010 - 02:29 PM' timestamp='1264944597' post='2147460']
I wasn't taking that leap, you're reading too deep into my simple statement, because it was a simple statement.
[/quote]

I said "people". You're reading far too deep into my simple statement.

[President S O]

Good to see you guys get it sorted, And I hope you don't let this happen again you certainly do not deserve it.

[welshgazza1992]

Very brave of you Echelon... you've broken free and gone against everyone and regained your sovereignty. hurrah...

[img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img] The timing is a little bit convenient, eh?

[James I]

Did you first speak to those who signed your terms?

edit: By the way, you used your sovereignty to sign those terms, so don't use that argument. If you agreed to this for all eternity, then I guess you're bound to your decision.

Edited January 31, 2010 by James I

[Lusitan]

[quote name='HellAngel' date='31 January 2010 - 01:39 PM' timestamp='1264945170' post='2147469']
I said "people". You're reading far too deep into my simple statement.
[/quote]

Fair enough

[Teriethien]

A great move.

[SynthFG]

[quote name='hizzy' date='31 January 2010 - 12:52 PM' timestamp='1264942364' post='2147424']
TBH I'm ashamed of whichever jackasses enforced such a term, even if Caffine1 was being a public spectacle. People should know better than that.
[/quote]
A statement I fully agree with

[astronaut jones]

i would say this was a good move, if you had the balls to do it while the world was at peace. The fact that you chose now to do it smacks of blatant opportunism and cowardice.

Plus, do you really want someone in your alliance government that spent the karma war in peace mode, all the while claiming he was a warrior and brave for doing so?

Edited January 31, 2010 by astronaut jones

[Neo Anglia]

[quote name='NoFish' date='31 January 2010 - 08:03 AM' timestamp='1264943016' post='2147433']
The primary argument was over the 1k tech term. The term banning caffine1 from gov't wasn't even in the initial offer at all.
[/quote]


[quote name='memoryproblems' date='31 January 2010 - 08:11 AM' timestamp='1264943514' post='2147439']
I believe the original term was:



And it was changed from that to the ban not as a result of any petition on our behalf.
[/quote]That^ And as I recall it was both yourself and Xiphosis that were adamant about it being there in spite of objections from several parties within Karma, including KaitlinK, who was your point person on the negotiation.


[quote name='James I' date='31 January 2010 - 08:44 AM' timestamp='1264945446' post='2147472']
Did you first speak to those who signed your terms?

edit: By the way, you used your sovereignty to sign those terms, so don't use that argument.
[/quote] It was a unanimous vote by our leadership council to negate it. So yes we did.

No the terms were signed to end the war in the short term to allow us to rebuild and ensure our continued existence. It never was about making Karma happy.

Also, I will keep the puppy peeing rainbows, it was a gift after all, but for the record, [i]I'm done being "cute"[/i].

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ_soJ8l_sg

[Fernando12]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='31 January 2010 - 07:38 AM' timestamp='1264945125' post='2147468']
Dpn't alliances usually get attacked for this? I mean, I remember you being in support of rolling GATO for breaking a similar term, and LUE got pushed to disbandment after they threw off their surrender terms. If you didn't want the term, you shouldn't have signed it – particularly in exchange for some economic pain, which I believe was the deal.

I don't like the term and I would support diplomatic negotiations with the alliances you surrendered to to remove it. But you can't just say 'Well actually, we signed these terms but we don't believe in them any more'.
[/quote]

They are sovereign. If those that signed it don't care why should anybody else. The fact that it is a stupid clause should be enough to have it removed and no one should get all worked up about it. Karma War is over and done with. The world has more important things to focus on.


[quote name='astronaut jones' date='31 January 2010 - 08:06 AM' timestamp='1264946772' post='2147488']
i would say this was a good move, if you had the balls to do it while the world was at peace. The fact that you chose now to do it smacks of blatant opportunism and cowardice.

Plus, do you really want someone in your alliance government that spent the karma war in peace mode, all the while claiming he was a warrior and brave for doing so?
[/quote]

It doesn't matter who they want in their government, it is THEIR government. The timing does not matter either. This clause should have never been put in there by any alliance. Anyone that tries to shame Echelon for having accepted it, should first shame the alliances that proposed and enforced it.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Fernando12

[Alterego]

Good for you echelon. Im interested to see what happens next and what kind of ludicrous reps/demands they make should they win this. I remember when Archon said they (Karma) wouldnt be after draconian reps and wouldnt do Hegemony type things only for them to squeeze the biggest reps ever out of that war and take actions like the one related to Caffine.


For the record these are the alliances and leaders who banned him from Echelon and bled you and others dry of tech..

[quote][u]Signed For[/u]:


[b]Monos Archein[/b]:
[b]KaitlinK[/b], Most Troublesome Archein
[b]Mamaduck[/b], Ringmaster of MA
[b]Mila Amo, Mila Amo[/b], Chancellor of Cuteness
[b]Ghostlin[/b], Prime Minister

[b]The Global Order of Darkness[/b]:
[b]Xiphosis[/b], Dark Lord
[b]Big Z[/b], Lord of Diplomacy
[b]Aloop[/b], Lord of the Interior
[b]No-Fish[/b], Lord of War
[b]Mixoux[/b], Brig. General
[b]Tulafaras[/b], Brig. General
[b]Commander Sera[/b], Brig. General

[b]For Greenland Republic[/b]:
Archon:[b] Al[/b]
Vice-Archon: [b]Shamedmonkey[/b]
Minister of Foreign Affairs: [b]Ilselu1[/b]
Minister of Defence: [b]Virillus[/b]
Minister of Finance: [b]Kosherness[/b]
Minister of Interior: [b]Acid[/b]

[b]For Athens[/b]:
[b]Max Beck[/b], Archon eponymos
[b]Londo Mollari[/b], Archon eponymos
[b]Rsoxbronco1[/b], Archon basileus
[b]Angryraccoon[/b], Polemarch

[b]Signed for RIA[/b]:
[b]Delta1212[/b], Triumvir of the Random Insanity Alliance, Demi-God of Maroon, Psychic Cupcake Overlord of the Cupcakery, Eperor of the SuperFriends, New Triumvir-elect of Ragnarok
Shadow, Triumvir of Random Insanity, The Ultimate Lifeform, Mystic Dragon Emperor of the Cheeselands, Puppetmaster of Chaos
[b]Agent Lemon[/b] - Triumvir
[b]crazyisraelie[/b], Head of Foreign Affairs and C-zom's Lover
[b]Thunder Strike[/b], Head of Recruitment and hater of cats.
[b]invincible13matt[/b], Head of Internal Affairs, [s]triscadeca[/s]triskaidekaphiliac, and deathless warrior of the wasteland
[b]cctmsp13[/b], head of economics, destroyer of vowels
[b]C-zom[/b]-Head of Military Operations
[b]Moth[/b], a.k.a. How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Funk

[b]Signed for R&R[/b]:
[b]Gofastleft[/b], Triumvir
[b]Danielg42[/b], Triumvir
[b]SE-Hawk[/b], Triumvir
[b]Bilzey[/b], Minister of Foreign Affairs
[b]cmf0203[/b], Minister of the Interior
[b]DemonSpawn[/b], Minister of Defense

[b]Signed for Ragnarok[/b]:
[b]Alfred von Tirpitz[/b], Triumvir
[b]rishnokof[/b], Triumvir
[b]Tautology[/b], Triumvir

[b]Signed for TTK[/b]:
[img]http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e349/hansontrek/ttkgovsig3-1.png[/img]

[b]Signed for The Viridian Entente[/b]
[b]Cornelius[/b], Lord
[b]Solaris[/b], Duke
[b]Caspian[/b], Secretary of State
[b]Smooth[/b], Secretary of Defense
[b]God of Salt[/b], Secretary of the Interior
[/quote][/quote]

[AirMe]

I support this move. But I also see this as a little opportunistic.

[Tromp]

It is opportunistic, but to be honest I don't really care.
You just make me laugh for (willing to) put Caffine back into govt.

[Alterego]

[quote name='astronaut jones' date='31 January 2010 - 02:06 PM' timestamp='1264946772' post='2147488']
i would say this was a good move, if you had the balls to do it while the world was at peace. The fact that you chose now to do it smacks of blatant opportunism and cowardice.
[/quote]
Kind of like Peacing out of a war after you get TOP and IRON enter it with your blessing. No thats much worse

[hertugen]

[quote name='Alterego' date='31 January 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1264950603' post='2147552']
Kind of like Peacing out of a war after you get TOP and IRON enter it with your blessing. No thats much worse
[/quote]
What does that have to do with anything?
I support Echelon´s sovereign right to put whoever they want in government, although Caffine1 might not be the best of choices.
As for peacing out, we call it reloading. And as far as I know we never asked TOP or IRON to hit C&G.

[JackSkellington]

I see this as opportunistic, as everyone else as stated. And quite frankly, you agreed to the terms set by the alliances you had been at war with. If you didn't want to have that term, you should have never accepted such a term. You should have went to the alliances you surrendered to and actually discussed this matter with them, not just simply release yourself from the term YOU agreed to. Quite frankly, if I was GOD or any other alliance on that list, I'd be pretty angry right now.

[Wad of Lint]

Oh yes. Oh lordy yes.

[Fernando12]

[quote name='JackSkellington' date='31 January 2010 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1264951318' post='2147569']
I see this as opportunistic, as everyone else as stated. And quite frankly, you agreed to the terms set by the alliances you had been at war with. If you didn't want to have that term, you should have never accepted such a term. You should have went to the alliances you surrendered to and actually discussed this matter with them, not just simply release yourself from the term YOU agreed to. Quite frankly, if I was GOD or any other alliance on that list, I'd be pretty angry right now.
[/quote]

If angry is all thats going to happen then Echelon has certainly made the right move.

Shame. Thats what those that wanted to force this terms should feel.

[Alterego]

[quote name='hertugen' date='31 January 2010 - 03:19 PM' timestamp='1264951193' post='2147564']
What does that have to do with anything?
I support Echelon´s sovereign right to put whoever they want in government, although Caffine1 might not be the best of choices.
As for peacing out, we call it reloading. And as far as I know we never asked TOP or IRON to hit C&G.
[/quote]
It was opportunistic. If you guys take an opportunity when it comes along who are you to criticise another when they follow suit.

[JackSkellington]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='31 January 2010 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1264951430' post='2147573']
If angry is all thats going to happen then Echelon has certainly made the right move.

Shame. Thats what those that wanted to force this terms should feel.
[/quote]

Echelon agreed to the terms. Forced? No. I'm sure GOD and friends put the pressure on Echelon to agree to the terms with that term included. But as for forced...They had the choice to say no or say yes. They chose to agree to these terms. I was one of the people who disagreed with the term entirely. Don't mistake that fact.

[astronaut jones]

[quote name='Fernando12' date='31 January 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1264948464' post='2147513']

It doesn't matter who they want in their government, it is THEIR government. The timing does not matter either. This clause should have never been put in there by any alliance. Anyone that tries to shame Echelon for having accepted it, should first shame the alliances that proposed and enforced it.
[/quote]

It is their government, but those were terms that they agreed to. They, as a sovereign entity, agreed to have those terms placed upon their alliance, and it is only now, through massive amounts of cowardice and opportunism, do they say "hey, we're not cool with that!"

Cowards, every last one of them. Pathetic little cowards.

[watchman]

o/ Echelon

This was a terrible and unjust issuance on the behalf of Karma. I hope that 2 lessons are learned here:
[list=1]
[*]Victors should not infringe on sovereignty
[*]Defeated parties should not agree to such terms.
[/list]

In negotiations, preserving a few nations from ZI is not worth such an infringement on an alliance's rights of self government.

[astronaut jones]

[quote name='Alterego' date='31 January 2010 - 03:10 PM' timestamp='1264950603' post='2147552']
Kind of like Peacing out of a war after you get TOP and IRON enter it with your blessing. No thats much worse
[/quote]

If you have an issue with my alliance, the control of which I have absolutely no say in, please go talk the people in charge. They may actually give a !@#$ about your opinions, because I assure you, I do not.

[Derwood1]

This is so last year, who cares

[Otherworld]

Wait.. how is it that we are cowards? Making the most of an opportunity.. on cybernations? How dare we.

But yes.. you're right, we're so cowardly.. I mean it's not like we got that term in the first place by declaring war on about 14 alliances in defence of an ally is it. No wait... it was.