Ultimatum to Tahoe

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Botha' date='01 February 2010 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1265034902' post='2150417']
[color="#483D8B"]It may be unwelcome in Africa to *some* - but to others, such as the nations of Southern Africa, it is either openly welcome (in the case of Transvaal and Rhodesia) or essentially a non-issue (in the case of Arctica, who hasn't complained).

Has anyone thought for a moment that perhaps Tahoe was invited into the region - as a defensive measure and counterweight on account of the unwanted actions of our northern neighbours such as Rebel Army and the others who invaded our friends in Somalia? [/color]
[/quote]

Interesting. So in the name of defense against your neighbors you have brought in an aggressive nation from a different continent. This is the sort of involvement that leads to eventual destabilization of an entire region. All the more reason why Tahoe's incursions into Asia-Pacific must be repulsed.

OOC: Halting from my side until Mudd returns. The naval deployments shall also freeze, literally and also wrt time,

[Proxian Empire]

The Scottish government finds it quite hypocritical to see so many nations who were eager to support Louisianan colonisation of Iberia, now so vehemently against Tahoe's expansion. We nonetheless encourage a diplomatic solution to this dilemma as war is undesirable.

[Zoot Zoot]

And everybody is missing the bloody point.
they ARE NOT expanding.
Viniland left its land as a Tahoan Protectorate, legally binding.

They have not annexed anything, they have not moved any military forces into the area, they have no NO moves what so ever that constitutes threats and words filled with poison.
The forked tongues of vipers hiss and spit at a country doing only what was requested of it by its ally, and I would bet your own nation would do the same.
Tahoe may well have been invited into south africa, Tahoe was handed the land by its long time ally to keep an eye on until the Government is ready to retake control.

Stop rattling your swords and get on with the Governence of your nations, you would easily spot Tahoan moves to fortify the Islands via satelights and so there your legitimate argument starts in regards to them moving out.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Botha' date='01 February 2010 - 06:35 AM' timestamp='1265034902' post='2150417']
[color="#483d8b"]It may be unwelcome in Africa to *some* - but to others, such as the nations of Southern Africa, it is either openly welcome (in the case of Transvaal and Rhodesia) or essentially a non-issue (in the case of Arctica, who hasn't complained).

Has anyone thought for a moment that perhaps Tahoe was invited into the region - as a defensive measure and counterweight on account of the unwanted actions of our northern neighbours such as Rebel Army and the others who invaded our friends in Somalia? [/color]
[/quote]
[quote name='King Penchuk' date='01 February 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1265038586' post='2150523']
The Scottish government finds it quite hypocritical to see so many nations who were eager to support Louisianan colonisation of Iberia, now so vehemently against Tahoe's expansion. We nonetheless encourage a diplomatic solution to this dilemma as war is undesirable.
[/quote]
"So too was Louisiana invited, to Europe, so too was the FRG invited to Florida. and yet at each point they were condemned...by Tahoe. Stop defending Tajoe's actions, please--as they are the only hypocrite here."

~Benajamin Wallace, Duke of Darwin

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 February 2010 - 07:58 AM' timestamp='1265039904' post='2150559']
And everybody is missing the bloody point.
they ARE NOT expanding.
Viniland left its land as a Tahoan Protectorate, legally binding.

They have not annexed anything, they have not moved any military forces into the area, they have no NO moves what so ever that constitutes threats and words filled with poison.
The forked tongues of vipers hiss and spit at a country doing only what was requested of it by its ally, and I would bet your own nation would do the same.
Tahoe may well have been invited into south africa, Tahoe was handed the land by its long time ally to keep an eye on until the Government is ready to retake control.

Stop rattling your swords and get on with the Governence of your nations, you would easily spot Tahoan moves to fortify the Islands via satelights and so there your legitimate argument starts in regards to them moving out.
[/quote]
"The point here is NOT about Tahoe expanding or not expanding, it is about them interfering in a sphere of influence where they are not wanted, when they have taken such a strong stance against non-Americans interfering in America. Next time, do your research on an issue before speaking up."

~Benajamin Wallace, Duke of Darwin

[Zoot Zoot]

They are not interfering though are they?
Its a protectorate zone, not Tahoan Soil.

They had no choice but to hold the land after viniland ENTRUSTED it to them, they did not take it or ask for it, they were handed it to look after till a later date.
Do YOUR research on an issue before responding

-Prime Minister Jack Hawk

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 February 2010 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1265048969' post='2150786']
They are not interfering though are they?
Its a protectorate zone, not Tahoan Soil.

They had no choice but to hold the land after viniland ENTRUSTED it to them, they did not take it or ask for it, they were handed it to look after till a later date.
Do YOUR research on an issue before responding

-Prime Minister Jack Hawk
[/quote]
"I did. And the Pacificans are not asking for an immediate turnover, but a gradual. But I guess uyou failed to see that, didn't you? Tahoe objected, in the same manner, to the FRG holding a protectorate in Florida, the EXACT same kind of situation, in reverse--and yet Tahoe was against it. They didn't even ask for a slow turnover, but immediately sent troops in--Greater Pacifica is being more lenient than Tahoe has ever been. Tahoe is a hypocrite, and should be held to their own standards. I maintain, do your research."

~Benajamin Wallace

Edited February 1, 2010 by Subtleknifewielder

[Zoot Zoot]

No you havnt read what we have been syaing sir, read back over our comments
where we continually state a gradual turnover is the best course of action.
But i guess you failed to see that.

[Silhouette]

At the end of the day, Midway is of far greater strategic value to Greater Pacifica than it is to Tahoe, the islands being only a few hundred nautical miles closer to continental Asia than the rest of the Hawaiian chain. At the most, continued control of Midway acts as a defence against other nations gaining a strategic foothold in the North Pacific, which we cannot fault. Furthermore, it seems as if nations are very selective about their objections to imperialism and colonialism. New South Wales recently purchased a small amount of land from Marscuian Pakistan, and what little comment we recieved was positive. However, when a nation with widely unpopular policies attempts to simply uphold the final wishes of a friendly government, a witch hunt ensues. Perhaps as a solution, a neutral nation could post a fleet near Midway, and simply blow any militarised Tahoan or Pacifican vessels out of the water, that way, nobody can use the island for anything but innocent purposes. This conflict is avoidable with a little common sense and decency from all involved parties.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 February 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1265051063' post='2150838']
No you havnt read what we have been syaing sir, read back over our comments
where we continually state a gradual turnover is the best course of action.
But i guess you failed to see that.
[/quote]
"Yes, I have. Make no naive assumptions--you have continually ignored the entire situation--that a gradual turnover is what Greater PAcifica is ASKING for, yet Tahoe isn't even considering THAT when they gave no such courtesy to anyone else. That remains the issue."

~Benjamin Wallace

[Zoot Zoot]

If the GP was asking, why the hell issue an ultimatum.
An Ultimatum is tantamount to war and threats. Wouldnt you agree?
Its a sign that if you dont do as we want, we will make you.
That is what Gp did with its Ultimatum, they tried being polite, we recognise this, and were rebuked by the Tahoan Government, so they tried a poorly concealed threat in the forum of this Ultimatum.

Would you bow down to a Nations demands and ultimatums? Would your Queen allow it?
I think not.
If the Austrailian Queendom was commanded to give up its lands reaching up into the Panasian Continant or face a war?
Or commanded to leave its Antarctic lands, its the same situation except Tahoe was GIVEN the lands legally from the former Government.

Your satelights would immediatly see any Tahoan Militarisation or moves of annexation aginast Midway so what the hell is the problem?
the Pacific is large enough, GP is close enough, to counter any Tahoan threat or moves of annexation.

[Comrade]

[quote]Are you guys seriously argueing over a tiny rock with like 3 people and a bazillion birds? I knew Tahoe loved to argue over worthless rocks, but this takes the cake.


-Viceroyal Katrina Zykova[/quote]



[quote]We the Birds of Molakia will support our brothers on Midway and their right to sovereignty!

-Molakian Comic "Representing" Molakia's Bird Population[/quote]

[Jordosaur94]

[quote name='King Penchuk' date='01 February 2010 - 07:36 AM' timestamp='1265038586' post='2150523']
The Scottish government finds it quite hypocritical to see so many nations who were eager to support Louisianan colonisation of Iberia, now so vehemently against Tahoe's expansion. We nonetheless encourage a diplomatic solution to this dilemma as war is undesirable.
[/quote]


The Reich agrees with Scotland, we also wish a diplomatic meeting to be held between the two nations only, nobody else, and see if the brewing conflict between these two paranoid nations to not happen.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 February 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1265054784' post='2150913']
If the GP was asking, why the hell issue an ultimatum.
An Ultimatum is tantamount to war and threats. Wouldnt you agree?
Its a sign that if you dont do as we want, we will make you.
That is what Gp did with its Ultimatum, they tried being polite, we recognise this, and were rebuked by the Tahoan Government, so they tried a poorly concealed threat in the forum of this Ultimatum.

Would you bow down to a Nations demands and ultimatums? Would your Queen allow it?
I think not.
If the Austrailian Queendom was commanded to give up its lands reaching up into the Panasian Continant or face a war?
Or commanded to leave its Antarctic lands, its the same situation except Tahoe was GIVEN the lands legally from the former Government.

Your satelights would immediatly see any Tahoan Militarisation or moves of annexation aginast Midway so what the hell is the problem?
the Pacific is large enough, GP is close enough, to counter any Tahoan threat or moves of annexation.
[/quote]

There is nothing hidden about this ultimatum. It is a final prelude to the enforcement of our Pacifican dominion and mandate. We were polite and diplomatic however the nation of Tahoe refused, other than continuing to say 'please' and grovel at the feet of Tahoe the only remaining options are to either turn a blind eye or otherwise use military force to remove Tahoe from the Pacific. There are many diplomatic options, and if you read the Ultimatum it still allows for a great deal of flexibility and reason-ability, but the total refusal on Tahoe's part really ties our hands.

If Tahoe would like to call for diplomatic talks we eagerly await such a call.

Edited February 1, 2010 by iamthey

[Zoot Zoot]

We are greatful for GP's continued support of diplomacy in the matter, truley patience is a virtue not possesed by many, fortunatly for the Pacific theatre, you posses it.

But my point remains sir/madam, you have Satelights/Spy planes that would detect any Tahoan attempts to militarise the Island or to annex it, so whynot leave it reamining under American control instead of estalishing Pacifican control over what would become a strategic airbase for the Pacifican Airforce.

At least if it is left Protectorate, and with... I dont know... a delegation of Pacifican officials to overwatch the Island on a perminant basis with Tahoes permission of course, and these delegates would then simply report in whenever on anything odd.

This way, Tahoe remains in control of Midway as a protectorate, and Pacifica can be set at ease and safe in the knowledge nothing funny is going on.

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Jordosaur94' date='01 February 2010 - 02:11 PM' timestamp='1265055068' post='2150917']
The Reich agrees with Scotland, we also wish a diplomatic meeting to be held between the two nations only, nobody else, and see if the brewing conflict between these two paranoid nations to not happen.
[/quote]
Louisiana suggests the Reich actually research the Louisianan-Scotland conflict before so casually agreeing with Scotland. We will further warn the Reich not to try and cast Italian held Guam as a threat to Greater Pacifica again, for Louisiana will not take kindly to it.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Yawoo

[James Wilson]

[quote name='Silhouette' date='01 February 2010 - 02:18 PM' timestamp='1265051889' post='2150858']
At the end of the day, Midway is of far greater strategic value to Greater Pacifica than it is to Tahoe, the islands being only a few hundred nautical miles closer to continental Asia than the rest of the Hawaiian chain. At the most, continued control of Midway acts as a defence against other nations gaining a strategic foothold in the North Pacific, which we cannot fault. Furthermore, it seems as if nations are very selective about their objections to imperialism and colonialism. New South Wales recently purchased a small amount of land from Marscuian Pakistan, and what little comment we recieved was positive. However, when a nation with widely unpopular policies attempts to simply uphold the final wishes of a friendly government, a witch hunt ensues. Perhaps as a solution, a neutral nation could post a fleet near Midway, and simply blow any militarised Tahoan or Pacifican vessels out of the water, that way, nobody can use the island for anything but innocent purposes. This conflict is avoidable with a little common sense and decency from all involved parties.
[/quote]
The WE actually likes this idea. It would benefit both nations.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' date='01 February 2010 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1265055773' post='2150943']
We are greatful for GP's continued support of diplomacy in the matter, truley patience is a virtue not possesed by many, fortunatly for the Pacific theatre, you posses it.

But my point remains sir/madam, you have Satelights/Spy planes that would detect any Tahoan attempts to militarise the Island or to annex it, so whynot leave it reamining under American control instead of estalishing Pacifican control over what would become a strategic airbase for the Pacifican Airforce.

[b]At least if it is left Protectorate, and with... I dont know... a delegation of Pacifican officials to overwatch the Island on a perminant basis with Tahoes permission of course, and these delegates would then simply report in whenever on anything odd.

This way, Tahoe remains in control of Midway as a protectorate, and Pacifica can be set at ease and safe in the knowledge nothing funny is going on.[/b]
[/quote]
"Only possible, of course, if Tahoe actually agrees to a diplomatic solution. As is the rather ingenious solution offered by New South Wales."

~Daniel Jackson, Duke of Adelaide

[Zoot Zoot]

See, after extended discussion, we have found two possible alternatives to war and conflict, I just hope Tahoe can see the logic behind the proposals.

[DeSchaine]

Once again, we find the amount of double standards being carried about this hilarious. We also find, again, that this wasnt a problem before. So, why should it be one now?

[kitex]

"An issue that still hasn't been addressed yet is whether or not Tahoe's lying about Midway being a military base or a wildife reserve. Will anyone [i]ever[/i] address that? Also I support New South Wales' proposal 100%."

- Lisa Thish (Provincial Governor of Black Rose Province)

Edited February 2, 2010 by kitex

[Executive Minister]

[i]"We trust both Tahoe and Greater Pacifica to do what is necessary to ensure their individual national securities are not compromised."[/i]

Edited February 2, 2010 by Executive Minister

[DeSchaine]

Why do they have to be lying? They very well may not know what is there. If there was a military base, then V-land would be under no obligation nor feel the need to disclose its existance or its contents. So how would Tahoe know what is or isnt there?

OOC: V has said what is there, a whole lot of nothing but plants and animals.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='DeSchaine' date='01 February 2010 - 07:05 PM' timestamp='1265079939' post='2151848']
Why do they have to be lying? They very well may not know what is there. If there was a military base, then V-land would be under no obligation nor feel the need to disclose its existance or its contents. So how would Tahoe know what is or isnt there?

OOC: V has said what is there, a whole lot of nothing but plants and animals.
[/quote]
"Then why did they state firmly that there was military hardware there? That was originally a primary reason given for not handing the island ver."

OOC: However, Mudd stated there was military hardware as a reason for not abandoning it. Then later on said it was a nature preserve. he, as the controller of the land now, need to make up his mind which it is.

[Botha]

[quote name='king of cochin' date='01 February 2010 - 06:40 AM' timestamp='1265035217' post='2150434']Interesting. So in the name of defense against your neighbors you have brought in an aggressive nation from a different continent. [/quote]

[color="#000080"][i]"Actually it was not so much 'in the name of defense' rather than 'how can we piss off Rebel Army after they curbstomped all our friends in Somalia?' or something like that"[/i] - Foreign Minister Hendrik Strijdom[/color]

[Captain Enema]

Mad Dog Bob Denard looks at a map in utter disbelief. He turns to an aide and says, "Are you sure they are claiming Tahoe isn't a Pacific nation?"

"Well it seems to be the case sir," replies the aide.

"Are you sure?" he asks again in total disbelief.

"The discourse seems to indicate that there is a belief that Tahoe doesn't qualify as a Pacific nation," the aide replies a bit nervously.

"Wow, tell you what, go get me another 1/5th of Jonny Walker Red Label and I'll write up a public statement after I finish it," Mad Dog Bob Denard snorts.

[b]From the Office of Mad Dog Bob Denard[/b]

At first I was content heckling the nations of the Pacific and North America. Now I'm down right angry at all of you. I woke up with a rotten hang over to hear an aide of mine claiming that some blabbermouth is saying Tahoe with a huge coastline on the Pacific coast of North America is acting as some sort of Colonial power.

Look people, We Africans know colonialism. We know it up close and personal. What Tahoe is doing is securing a speck of an island that is in their area of interest anyway. Saying Tahoe has no place in the Pacific is akin to admitting you have some sort mental problems or something.

Tahoe, has every right to be in the Pacific as they share a huge coastline with the Pacific. These Jonny come lately Pacificans strike me as the left hand trying to hide what the right hand is really doing. Good luck Tahoe, and I still want to know if Midway is open to hunting.

-Mad Dog Bob Denard