Härmlin Announcement

[WorkingClassRuler]

Key word is aggressive. What we're doing is defensive. What you did, as per your own DoW, was aggressive.

Also, the second line. IRON's declaration lead to our activation of an MDP, which negates the clause.

Try again.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Working_Class_Ruler

[avernite]

Key word is aggressive. What we're doing is defensive. What you did, as per your own DoW, was aggressive.

Also, the second line. IRON's declaration lead to our activation of an MDP, which negates the clause.

Try again.

yeah, which MDP?

As I said, if you're argueing for Grämlins, okay, but otherwise I don't see it.

As to the offensive: well, if it is as your first explanation says, the second sentence would be useless as no MDP would ever be triggered by your own side's offensive actions. Thus, this is an offensive action against IRON according to the treaty, which is only allowed if it is in honour of your MDP's.

[LucasSnow]

o/ Harmlins It was an Honor to fight at your sides tonight.

IRON, drop the "This is in Defense" card, it fails. You attacked C&G, none of which were in the current war. You blatantly and aggressively attacked, that's not close to defending, now buck up, be men, and face the consequences.

Edited January 29, 2010 by LucasSnow

[scutterbug]

yeah, which MDP?

As I said, if you're argueing for Grämlins, okay, but otherwise I don't see it.

As to the offensive: well, if it is as your first explanation says, the second sentence would be useless as no MDP would ever be triggered by your own side's offensive actions. Thus, this is an offensive action against IRON according to the treaty, which is only allowed if it is in honour of your MDP's.

Where were TOP when umbrella entered the fray.

TOP abandoning bloc ally's since 2010 and breaking treatys!

[BDRocks]

Gre and MHA are one in another as an alliance.

Iron/TOP attacks MK(MDP partner of Gre)

Gre rolls to war, MHA rolls to war. How is that hard to understand?

Edited January 29, 2010 by BDRocks

[scutterbug]

Gre and MHA are one in another as an alliance.

TOP attacks MK(MDP partner of Gre)

Gre rolls to war, MHA rolls to war. How is that hard to understand?

for TOP too hard it seems.

Edited January 29, 2010 by scutterbug

[der_ko]

Where were TOP when umbrella entered the fray.

TOP abandoning bloc ally's since 2010 and breaking treatys!

And this was after Umbrella backed TOP above all their other allies just a few weeks ago in the TPF war. Way to return the favor, TOP.

Also, we appreciate your support, Härmlins. We'd love to return the favor someday.

Edited January 29, 2010 by der_ko

[WorkingClassRuler]

The majority of our MDP's lead to CnG, you could pick any one and get a direct link to them. You and IRON aggressively attacked CnG, that activated our defense of our friends, you cancelled out that article. As Lucas pointed out above, you attacked them preemptively without treaty obligations and you voided our treaty. Stop trying to claim otherwise, it's not going to work.

[Denial]

There is no smug emote large enough to express my feelings regarding this announcement and the Paradoxian tears flowing because of it.

Best of luck on the battlefield, MHA and Gremlins.

[Choader]

Where were TOP when umbrella entered the fray.

Uh, arranging for NADC, NATO, and TFD to attack Umbrella.

If your name isn't RON you're no friend of TOP, that's something you can take to the bank.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Choader

[avernite]

The majority of our MDP's lead to CnG, you could pick any one and get a direct link to them. You and IRON aggressively attacked CnG, that activated our defense of our friends, you cancelled out that article. As Lucas pointed out above, you attacked them preemptively without treaty obligations and you voided our treaty. Stop trying to claim otherwise, it's not going to work.

You can say all you want it's right or proper for you to do this, and maybe it is (that is a matter of opinion), but it's NOT in line with our treaty, despite what you say. What TOP did or did not do vis-a-vis Umbrella frankly has no effect on that fact, only on the subjective judgement of it being good or bad.

[scutterbug]

You can say all you want it's right or proper for you to do this, and maybe it is (that is a matter of opinion), but it's NOT in line with our treaty, despite what you say. What TOP did or did not do vis-a-vis Umbrella frankly has no effect on that fact, only on the subjective judgement of it being good or bad.

WCR didn't mention Umbrella in his post nor did we go to war because of what you did to Umbrella. So that point is moot. What TOP did was not in line with our treaty, who made the first move TOP did. You guys nullified the treaty first not us. Please don't keep kidding yourself.

[SynthFG]

This is the reason I love being paperless

And Just what the hell were you thinking TOP,

we warned you that your paranoia had you on the path to your own destruction and that some of your leadership was driving you on a path to disaster

and then you do this,

I'm stunned

[WorkingClassRuler]

I didn't bring up Umbrella. But as MHA - Umbrella - CnG, it's an interesting observation.

You saying it's not in line with our treaty because it doesn't match your actions is pretty rich. You declared aggressively first. That's not opinion, that's not interpretation, that's fact. Your actions with IRON trigged our DoW, not the other way around.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Working_Class_Ruler

[Meer Republic]

TOP you should probably drop the e-lawyering. Given you aggressively attacked our OTP, it comes off a touch silly to berate Gramlins for just that.

You're better off doing the talking on the battle field where I have no doubt you'll shine.

[fallin]

Harmlin foreign policy is not dictated by TOP e-lawyering. We weren't the people that declared aggressively on CnG. This is the Mostly Harmless Alliance and the Gramlins. We are sovereign. We are not your puppets.

[avernite]

Harmlin foreign policy is not dictated by TOP e-lawyering. We weren't the people that declared aggressively on CnG. This is the Mostly Harmless Alliance and the Gramlins. We are sovereign. We are not your puppets.

Yes, and MHA sovereignly signed and also broke our treaty. In response to our actions? Undoubtedly for the second. That doesn't mean you suddenly didn't break the letter of the treaty as I spelled it out for you.

That's not e-lawyering, that's getting the facts in order. E-lawyering is to try to prove you didn't break a treaty , not e-lawyering is admitting you did it and saying you had a good cause or somesuch.

[WorkingClassRuler]

Maybe if you say it enough times it will become true?

[fallin]

Maybe if you say it enough times it will become true?

"I hate MHA. I hate MHA I hate MHA. I hate MHA. MHA blows. MHA blows.

Imma doing it right?

[scutterbug]

Yes, and MHA sovereignly signed and also broke our treaty. In response to our actions? Undoubtedly for the second. That doesn't mean you suddenly didn't break the letter of the treaty as I spelled it out for you.

That's not e-lawyering, that's getting the facts in order. E-lawyering is to try to prove you didn't break a treaty , not e-lawyering is admitting you did it and saying you had a good cause or somesuch.

How can we break a treaty that TOP already broke themselves and in the process nullified? please E Lawyer better.

[avernite]

Maybe if you say it enough times it will become true?

Maybe if you actually countered the argument which goes:

MHA had no MDP's directly with anyone we attacked.

The treaty spells out attacking TOP MDP allies is only allowed in response to direct MDP triggering.

MHA attacked IRON, a TOP MDP ally.

Or maybe you could, instead, explain why that MDP-exception is in the treaty if it doesn't mean that when that exception doesn't exist it's no different.

[WorkingClassRuler]

How can we break a treaty that TOP already broke themselves and in the process nullified? please E Lawyer better.

More to the point - how can we be accused of breaking the treaty with TOP, when we were defending our other allies against TOP and IRON's actions.

[Vespassianus]

IRON and their minions have brought untoward aggression against our friends and the Harmlins shall see our way in to protect them.

Please explain it to me.

If you say that "we march to war because we don't like them/our coalition vs yours/war time" or anything else i wouldn't call it simple !@#$%^&*.

[scutterbug]

Maybe if you actually countered the argument which goes:

MHA had no MDP's directly with anyone we attacked.

The treaty spells out attacking TOP MDP allies is only allowed in response to direct MDP triggering.

MHA attacked IRON, a TOP MDP ally.

Or maybe you could, instead, explain why that MDP-exception is in the treaty if it doesn't mean that when that exception doesn't exist it's no different.

TOP attacked MK, a direct ally of the harmlins.

You guys triggered the harmlin accords MDP by hitting MK and the rest of C&G.

You broke the treaty not us good day please cry more.

Edited January 29, 2010 by scutterbug

[fallin]

Maybe if you actually countered the argument which goes:

MHA had no MDP's directly with anyone we attacked.

The treaty spells out attacking TOP MDP allies is only allowed in response to direct MDP triggering.

MHA attacked IRON, a TOP MDP ally.

Or maybe you could, instead, explain why that MDP-exception is in the treaty if it doesn't mean that when that exception doesn't exist it's no different.

Or maybe,

Grams decides to defend MK as an offshoot of its paperless FA.

The Harmlin Accords are activated as such.

Harmlins attacks IRON.

Why you gotta make things so complicated?