Official Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[Tulafaras]

You are being wilfully stupid.

nope, i just don't get why exactly TOP and IRON are being willfully stupid.

If they wanted to enter this war, they had a perfectly fine treaty with NSO they could have followed. Maybe CnG would have countered maybe not, i do not have any inside info so i don't know. But by the standards of Cybernation (something thrown around a lot in the past two weeks) that behaviour would have been perfectly fine.

Instead they attacked someone who was not in the war, without a CB and without a treaty to connect to, something which is generally just not done on CN.

[Sir Keshav IV]

Good luck TOP. See you on the battlefield.

[Chalaskan]

On what grounds? that he stated the absolute truth?

You are letting your imagination run wild there, son.

On the grounds you were planning on how you were going to enter .

[neneko]

I'm still stunned. You dream of this day your whole life and now when it's here it's almost too good to be true.

Thank you TOP. You sure know how to make a girl happy.

[Bodvar Jarl]

While the CB may be highly questionable, there's no doubt TOP and IRON have been looking for a reason to attack the ODN for quite some time now so it looks like we are in it. I know I, for one, am looking forward to a good fight!

And we are paranoid?

Oh, well, there are plenty of nukes to go around for everyone.

[o-dog]

On what grounds? that he stated the absolute truth?

You are letting your imagination run wild there, son.

nope, i just don't get why exactly TOP and IRON are being willfully stupid.

If they wanted to enter this war, they had a perfectly fine treaty with NSO they could have followed. Maybe CnG would have countered maybe not, i do not have any inside info so i don't know. But by the standards of Cybernation (something thrown around a lot in the past two weeks) that behaviour would have been perfectly fine.

Instead they attacked someone who was not in the war, without a CB and without a treaty to connect to, something which is generally just not done on CN.

I think it is disingenuous to claim C&G would not have entered on the side that contained FOK, CSN, Fark, etc. TOP and IRON bought that scenario forward and much of C&G are happy that they did. The path to the final destination may have deviated from the expected, but that destination has been reached all the same.

And please, saying the above is not the same as saying there was some overarching grand plot. No conspiracy theories here.

Edited January 29, 2010 by O-Dog

[R&R-Viking]

TOP, you're a cancer on orange.

[uaciaut]

You wanted war, they gave you war. I dont see where the problem is. What do you care how they do it.

What kind of !@#$ logic is that?

[Tulafaras]

I think it is disingenuous to claim C&G would not have entered on the side that contained FOK, CSN, Fark, etc. TOP and IRON bought that scenario forward and much of C&G are happy that they did. The path to the final destination may have deviated from the expected, but that destination has been reached all the same.

And please, saying the above is not the same as saying there was some overarching grand plot. No conspiracy theories here.

I have no idea what CnG would have done. I am not a diplomat and not in any high gov position. What i do know is that we have been expecting a counter by IRON for days now, and it never appeared. Instead they attacked the only block which was completly in the middle of this entire mess. Many MK posters supported both sides, and many made their opinion clear that they disliked \m/. Frankly i was unsure where the chips would fall.

Maybe TOP had some insider information, but frankly i cannot accept that MK would throw their allies under the bus simply because you say they would do so. It doesn't fit into how i know MK at all. Them being neutral was probably the most likely scenario i saw.

Regardless you seem to have missed my point. CnG was NOT engaged at all. A preemptive attack is questionable at best during a coalition war, but CnG was rather far removed from the opposite side coalition.

[tamerlane]

On the grounds you were planning on how you were going to enter .

Oh yes, telepathy. We are into reading minds now, I see.

[JT Jag]

TOP has absolutely no valid CB for entering this war.

Unless they admit to using spies, in which case every alliance that considered attacking TPF in the blueballs war should be writing up their declarations now.

[Alterego]

TOP has absolutely no valid CB for entering this war.

Unless they admit to using spies, in which case every alliance that considered attacking TPF in the blueballs war should be writing up their declarations now.

You obviously didnt read GODs DoW.

[tamerlane]

I think it is disingenuous to claim C&G would not have entered on the side that contained FOK, CSN, Fark, etc. TOP and IRON bought that scenario forward and much of C&G are happy that they did. The path to the final destination may have deviated from the expected, but that destination has been reached all the same.

And please, saying the above is not the same as saying there was some overarching grand plot. No conspiracy theories here.

Sound like what you are saying is TOP/IRON/TORN Leadership all lined up in front of this mat and asked the question "Will C&G join the war?" and based their decision to preempt off of that?

Niiiicceeee.

Edited January 29, 2010 by tamerlane

[JT Jag]

You obviously didnt read GODs DoW.

GOD's CB, though it was unstated, was R&R declaring on NSO shortly before they did.

They didn't outright say it, but they're fully within their rights to activate their optional aggression clause there

[mdnss69]

I have no idea what CnG would have done. I am not a diplomat and not in any high gov position. What i do know is that we have been expecting a counter by IRON for days now, and it never appeared. Instead they attacked the only block which was completly in the middle of this entire mess. Many MK posters supported both sides, and many made their opinion clear that they disliked \m/. Frankly i was unsure where the chips would fall.

Maybe TOP had some insider information, but frankly i cannot accept that MK would throw their allies under the bus simply because you say they would do so. It doesn't fit into how i know MK at all. Them being neutral was probably the most likely scenario i saw.

Regardless you seem to have missed my point. CnG was NOT engaged at all. A preemptive attack is questionable at best during a coalition war, but CnG was rather far removed from the opposite side coalition.

Maybe you should ask CnG partners Athens about valid CB's, no?

[Seerow]

Maybe you should ask CnG partners Athens about valid CB's, no?

I'll go to #athens and ask right now, but I'm not sure what you're expecting me to find :x

The response I got:

<Seerow> dear Athens: I have been told by OWF to ask you guys about valid CBs, can someone tell me what a valid CB is?

<@RushSykes[Athens|DMoFA]> Dear Seerow... doing 2 tech deals with Chickenzilla qualifies

Unfortunately it seems as though we have done two tech deals with my alliance-mate chickenzilla, so it would seem we have indeed given TOP TORN and IRON a valid CB. I apologize for any indication that you had no reason to declare.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Seerow

[tamerlane]

Maybe you should ask CnG partners Athens about valid CB's, no?

Or maybe you should address the issue at hand.

[o-dog]

Sound like what you are saying is TOP/IRON/TORN Leadership all lined up in front of this mat (big piccie) and asked the question "Will C&G join the war?" and based their decision to preempt off of that?

Niiiicceeee.

I have no idea what prompted TOP,IRON and TORN to do what they did. Maybe they did it just because they wanted to; you'd have to ask them.

What I'm saying is that if the war had continued along its original path, C&G would have come in on the side of FOK, CSN, Fark etc. The planet has been roughly split for a while now and expectations were reflecting that split.

This is my opinion and yes, I may be wrong.

Meh.

Edited January 29, 2010 by O-Dog

[Tulafaras]

You obviously didnt read GODs DoW.

you obviously didn't read it either.

@JTAG: SF is an MADP not and MoADP. so there wasn't even anything optional about it. (R&R used their oA clause to declare)

[Branimir]

There is no big love, any longer, from me to you TOP. And I know it goes both ways.

Regardless that you probably do not care what I have to say, I still would like to extend to you my wish of good luck and my support.

The way you got played, plot or not, I wouldn't wish to anybody, really. I hope you manage to weasel yourself out of this if at all possible or to just cave some faces in.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Branimir

[Titus Pullo]

While the CB may be highly questionable, there's no doubt TOP and IRON have been looking for a reason to attack the ODN for quite some time now so it looks like we are in it. I know I, for one, am looking forward to a good fight!

Thanks for breathing some life back into the game. Hopefully we can all conduct ourselves with honor and integrity and move on afterwards.

To your first point: Don't flatter yourself. You are, no doubt, just sweetening the deal. You're the cherry on the Ice Cream Sundae. Do I need that cherry to make the sundae be good? No. Does it make it just a bit better? Yea.

As to your second: LOL

[Bob Janova]

What I'm saying is that if the war had continued along its original path, C&G would have come in on the side of FOK, CSN, Fark etc. The planet has been roughly split for a while now and expectations were reflecting that split.

While this is probably true, it is still not a good idea to bring in an enemy force which may or may not have been going to enter against you, at least unless you can blitz them back to the stone age before they can react. TOP will remember Legion attacking them in GW3, or GATO's declaration on most of the Initiative in GW2, so I'm astonished that they decided to take the same route, instead of hitting someone who was already a part of the coalition (probably someone in SF other than GOD, who were the obvious bait). C&G would probably have counter-attacked, but don't forget that at least two of them (MK and GR) are also tied to Polar, so it wasn't a foregone conclusion.

[avernite]

I still like you, Branimir

And thanks. By the by, Bob Janova, I don't think the DoW was all that was wrong with GATO and Legion in GW2/3. In fact, TOP was going to join in both anyway, all they did was save us heartache AFTER the war, and frankly, we don't think C&G's hearts would ache too much over having to fight us even if it was over \m/'s techraiding standards.

[Venizelos]

yes the opsec sucked, but lets face it, opsec always sucks in a coalition. But at the same time opsec or no opsec, you gotta admit you never thought we'd go through with it

still, most of MK had militarized way before you declared

[Chief Savage Man]

There's a difference between GOD posting a blanket DoW so that they could coordinate with SF easily and TOP launching a preemptive attack on the best-connected bloc in the game.