Bob Janova Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Two (voted 3 because it's the closest), yes, yes. Re the third question: just because someone is a crinimal doesn't mean it's moral to do the same act to them that was immoral by them in the first place, and the same applies on the national level. Re the first: an alliance requires cooperation between nations, so one nation flying an AA doesn't count, but two working together does. That doesn't mean that every AA with 2 nations counts as an alliance, it's more subtle than that. If tech raiding is immoral, so is war in general. This doesn't follow. Tech raiding is war on innocent nations. Pretty much everyone agrees that alliance war without a good CB is 'immoral', unless they don't believe in morals at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) "Innocence" and "Morals" are just pretty words. There is nothing but survival. Consider tech raiders being the hand of evolution on Planet Bob: We weed out those too weak and ignorant to know the harsh reality of the world, and teach them a valuable lesson as we go. Edited January 20, 2010 by JT Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I prefer strict government control over the declaration of war by nations within an alliance.Good or evil, no opinions will change on tech raiding from discussion alone; plenty of folks will always BAAAW over these sorts of things because they have deeply set opinions, others because they don't like you and want to undermine your position. The pixel gains from tech raiding are small compared to the PR losses inherent in presenting any angle of attack for your political opponents. I disagree. It is only when tech raiding is done improperly that there are issues with it. By improperly I mean large scale on a specific alliance (aka Knights of Ni and FoA). Most of the time, as long as your members can be respectful, nothing bad will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tautology Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 This poll conclusively (and easily!) proves that there is no universal morality when it comes to tech raiding. Now that we've sorted that out, I hope that everyone will allow other people to be moralists, i.e. all nation rulers will be able to follow their personal morals without some jerk claiming "my morals are better than yours". I'm looking forward to saying plainly "I don't like you because you smell bad" rather than having to trump up pretenses for why their odor offends me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 "Innocence" and "Morals" are just pretty words. There is nothing but survival. Consider tech raiders being the hand of evolution on Planet Bob: We weed out those too weak and ignorant to know the harsh reality of the world, and teach them a valuable lesson as we go. Joined: 14-January 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 If tech raiding is immoral, so is war in general.Now, some of you might instinctually say "well of course war is bad". But think twice before you prove yourself to be a hypocrite. To everyone who has complained that people do not actually read what others write. I know how you feel. JT Jag, please put up a link to where someone said the answer is to be a pacifist at all times. I missed it and want to tell him or her how wrong that is. If that were actually a popular view, I doubt so called "tech raiding" would be controversial in the least. In every sort of environment there is always conflicts for power. On Planet Bob, it really is the same thing: Every world war, every small conflict, they're all because one nation believes they can gain an upper hand by defeating another nation. The Karma War took place because Karma wanted to break the hold the Hegemony had, because Hegemony had a stranglehold on world opinion and Karma wanted that... and it's the same thing going back in history. Isn't that the entire point of trying to grow your country? Lets assume, for a moment, that it's all about power. That's a fair statement for the majority of alliances I think. Alright, assuming that is true and also assuming that "tech raiding" anyone (either non-aligned or an alliance) adds so much to the power one has, how did NPO manage to rule Planet Bob so long and NOT be a tech raiding alliance? In other words, my point is that IF tech raiding adds so much to the power an alliance and thus is critical in that regard, then NPO should never have been able to reach the power level they had and maintain such a strong hold for so long. Instead it would have been an alliance that tech raided. Some alliances believe that the fastest way they can improve their member nations is by taking those improvements. Why not? The alliances that hold that view have leaders who know nothing about maintaining good public relations and/or it's importance. However, you are right that it's not my job to tell them otherwise. I'm not arguing against raiding for their benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Joined: 14-January 10And?I said I was a peon, and these are just my opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 And?I said I was a peon, and these are just my opinions. I'm saying that you don't even begin to have the right to be calling people weak and ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Now that we've sorted that out, I hope that everyone will allow other people to be moralists, i.e. all nation rulers will be able to follow their personal morals without some jerk claiming "my morals are better than yours" Allowing nation rulers to run their nations without outside interference? What a good idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreativName Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Under 15 is not an alliance, unless they have a protectorate or are Opethian. ... then again, we DO need to recruit right about now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godwin Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 This poll conclusively (and easily!) proves that there is no universal morality when it comes to tech raiding. Now that we've sorted that out, I hope that everyone will allow other people to be moralists, i.e. all nation rulers will be able to follow their personal morals without some jerk claiming "my morals are better than yours". I'm looking forward to saying plainly "I don't like you because you smell bad" rather than having to trump up pretenses for why their odor offends me. This is the only thing I have ever asked for all along, and I'm glad you've come to that conclusion. If only the masses would agree, there'd be a lot less BAWWWing on the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biazt Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Joined: 14-January 10 Really? You're going to start with this? Joined: 2-March 09 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Really? You're going to start with this? Joined: 2-March 09 Look me up. I'm kind of a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nippy Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Look me up. I'm kind of a big deal. Oh, he knows who you are, V....we all do. You're like RV, only you don't make as many unfulfilled threats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biazt Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Look me up. I'm kind of a big deal. Delusions of grandeur my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Delusions of grandeur my friend. Hardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biazt Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Hardly. Welp, my argument has been systematically taken apart and destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Welp, my argument has been systematically taken apart and destroyed. It didn't require any more than what I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biazt Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) It didn't require any more than what I posted. Hardly. Edited January 20, 2010 by Biazt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamezBfod Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Hardly. Well played. I lol'ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tick1 Posted January 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I'd like to see more opinions in the polls, but clearly we can distinguish the difference in morals on planet bob. It obviously states that two wrongs do indeed make a right based off of the last two questions. Since everyone that attempts earn PR through the method of belittling raiders also believes that crucifying these players is not immoral. There for anyone that has chosen "Yes" to question to and "No" to question four is completely oblivious to anyone opinion or statement they've made in the past about raiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian LaCroix Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I'd say 2, no, and no. Two because more than one is an alliance, and you probably shouldn't raid alliances. No because it's a decent tool for teaching newbs how to use the war system, and wasn't unfun to get raided in my experience. No because, whatever. Just be willing to face the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I believe raiding is wrong. I used to do it and my alliance used to do it, but we've all repented of that error. Raiders enjoy the lulz, and I think if sovereign nations wanted to share in the fun by attacking nations in the middle of a tech raid, then that's just a raid gone horribly wrong. If the raiding alliance chooses to back up the raids gone horribly wrong with alliance-wide activation and calling in allies, it's got to hope it has good PR, or it'll be involved in an alliance war gone horribly wrong. The political reality is that the risks of raiding do not outweigh the rewards. Feel free to argue that the rewards make it all worthwhile: I am not here to convince anyone of the truth. I just want to state the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tautology Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 ... I just want to state the truth. Don't we all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzydog Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Hardly. Chuckles. Any tips on raiding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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