Has Standard Price Increased?

[HHAYD]

Do you really think, Sellers should feel sorry for guy collecting 100 or more times as much money as them?

Do you really think, it should care them if your slots are inefficient?

Do you really think, it should care them how your nations behave in war?

It doesn't.

This is not about you, not about them. Not about the older or the younger nations.

It is just business. No aid, no supply. Just trading.

If there's someone paying 3m/50 he will get the deal. If buyer doesn't want to pay the market prices they will get less deals and eventually kill their own progress.

buy or die

That is unless if they are smart buyers who can buy tech cheaper than the "market" price set on the forums.

As for the first bolded part, yes, if they know sellers that still sell 100 tech for $3 million. Then you would notice it would be harder to fill your aid slots unless if you come across some really lazy and ignorant buyers.

I wouldn't consider the prices on this forum to be the standard by any means. Buyers only come here when they are desperate and can't find someone within their own alliance/allies to buy from. All intra-alliance tech deals I've encountered are 3M/100.

"Supply and demand" doesn't really mean much in this scenario. There are more seller nations than there are buyer nations.

Actually, there are more buyer than seller nations, especially when many potential sellers don't even bother with tech dealing. Try checking the CN's average NS per nation, that gives a good estimate of how top heavy CN is. A a typical 15,000+ of NS nation is usually a tech buyer nation, a game-wide average of about 19k of NS shows that CN is primary buyer heavy.

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Here is the clear point: Drive too many buyers away, it will be harder to land tech deals.

Edited January 11, 2010 by HHAYD

[IronicMaster]

Here is the clear point: Drive too many buyers away, it will be harder to land tech deals.

You could use your "clear point" in the exactly same way for sellers, who besides are much mor likely to stop selling or playing because their benefits are much smaller.

If you wish to lower the price you should WISH to drive buyers away. If you drive the sellers away, the price increases.

Edited January 11, 2010 by IronicMaster

[DavidRossJones]

In the end, more and more sellers will demand 3mil/50t deals, and people who refuse to buy at that price will be left behind. Fine, moan about it all you like, but it's the way things are. Like Ironic, I am only here to serve one person: me. I really don't care about your nation or saving you money. Sorry, but that is how business works.

Also, I've done several tech deals now, and the only 3mil/100t one I've done was my first one, but since then, always been 3mil/50t, and I never, ever have problems finding a buyer. Doesn't seem to me to be a lack of buyers, or that the price is driving anyone away.

Edited January 11, 2010 by DavidRossJones

[IronicMaster]

In the end, more and more sellers will demand 3mil/50t deals, and people who refuse to buy at that price will be left behind. Fine, moan about it all you like, but it's the way things are. Like Ironic, I am only here to serve one person: me. I really don't care about your nation or saving you money. Sorry, but that is how business works.

Also, I've done several tech deals now, and the only 3mil/100t one I've done was my first one, but since then, always been 3mil/50t, and I never, ever have problems finding a buyer. Doesn't seem to me to be a lack of buyers, or that the price is driving anyone away.

That's not exactly my opinion. I don't just care about me, my alliance has a high priority too.

But the bennefit of tech-buyers or elder-nations? I don't care a anything about. If buyers would buy to this conditions I would sell 6m/50 or 300m/50 without feeling any worse.

[DavidRossJones]

That's not exactly my opinion. I don't just care about me, my alliance has a high priority too.

But the bennefit of tech-buyers or elder-nations? I don't care a anything about. If buyers would buy to this conditions I would sell 6m/50 or 300m/50 without feeling any worse.

Well, of course, an alliance is a high priority as well, but your nation is the highest priority. If it's not, then you might as well not have a nation.

[IronicMaster]

Well, of course, an alliance is a high priority as well, but your nation is the highest priority. If it's not, then you might as well not have a nation.

100% agree.

[Einer]

Keep in mind that there's a quality component here - the transaction isn't just money for technology. The buyer is incurring some amortized cost over every transaction that the seller will flake out and quit, steal the money and make you have to bribe an enforcer, or get attacked and need rescuing. For his part, the seller is in part acquiring that guarantee from the buyer that he'll be bailed out if someone raids him. I therefore suggest that the 3m/100 deal is more likely to be achieved if the buyer is extremely influential (offering more protection) or if the seller is extremely new or a loner (meaning there's a higher risk he quits or gets raided). By contrast, the 3m/50 deal is more likely to be achieved if the buyer is weak (offering little protection) or the seller is strong (needing less protection and being less likely to quit).

My perspective, as somebody with a NS of 11k, is that I can easily justify selling at 3m/50. The buyers are pretty much guaranteed that I won't quit the game, and since I maintain a large standing army and a relatively large warchest, the odds of me being raided (or at least, of me not being able to handle the raid on my own) are very low.

[IronicMaster]

Keep in mind that there's a quality component here - the transaction isn't just money for technology. The buyer is incurring some amortized cost over every transaction that the seller will flake out and quit, steal the money and make you have to bribe an enforcer, or get attacked and need rescuing. For his part, the seller is in part acquiring that guarantee from the buyer that he'll be bailed out if someone raids him. I therefore suggest that the 3m/100 deal is more likely to be achieved if the buyer is extremely influential (offering more protection) or if the seller is extremely new or a loner (meaning there's a higher risk he quits or gets raided). By contrast, the 3m/50 deal is more likely to be achieved if the buyer is weak (offering little protection) or the seller is strong (needing less protection and being less likely to quit).

My perspective, as somebody with a NS of 11k, is that I can easily justify selling at 3m/50. The buyers are pretty much guaranteed that I won't quit the game, and since I maintain a large standing army and a relatively large warchest, the odds of me being raided (or at least, of me not being able to handle the raid on my own) are very low.

You suggest that you shoul get 3m/50 deals but others should not?

No further word to say about this "suggestion".

In fact it's not much about quality. It's about business. I've seen threads in the forum where sellers were offering 3m/100 deals and look on their pages could easily show, that they were inflicted in multiple revenge-wars for ireliability.

Someone planing to fraud his tech buyer doesn't have the need to go out for the best deal. He could offer you 3m/150 or even 3m/200 deals

I think that the most reliabel seller is someone on your alliance or someone, who fights hard for the price of every deal.

A smart business-man/seller depends on his reliability and is much less likely to fraud his buyer.

On the other hand, a dumbass easy to accept every deal that is offered would perhaps misscalculate and not even have the money to produce your tech when it's his turn to send. He will beg you to wait some day which will do a much greater impact on your slots then having a seller that is more expensive but reliable.

[Canik]

I buy tech at 3 mil/50 tech from my own alliance, but I consider that charity.

The price isn't gonna change from 3mil/100 tech anytime soon. It's a good deal for both the buyer and the seller. If someone constantly sells at 3mil/100 they will grow way, way, way faster than those who don't tech sell.

My nation grew up in the days before tech selling. A nation constantly selling tech at 3 mil/100 now days, would have a better economy than ENTIRE alliances back then.

[IronicMaster]

Yes... 3m/100 would be a good deal for both of them.

3m/50 is it too.

In fact 6m/50 would be.

There are much buyers out there buying 3m/50 it take me 3 hours to find the last deal as a seller.

Price has allready changed.

[Sande]

"It's business"

It's stupidity.

Can't you see that there are not really many new players? The amount of players is always about 30k. Sure there are about 200 new players every day but most of these nations are also deleted by day 25. The rest won't play for more than 100 days. Possibly they will do 1-2 tech deals in that time. Only a few grow bigger than 10k NS. Eventually, we will not have any tech sellers because all players are over 3999 infra and are trying to buy tech.

Now, if you really want to make the standard price 3 mil for 50 tech or even worse, 6 mil for 50 tech, you are just making this situation come faster.

1.3 mil for a tech deal is a really good boost for the economy and 100 tech is really good for the large nation. If you really want to grow faster, learn to build your nation more efficiently and do inactivity cycles. I see lots of sellers in this topic who could do way better when they just built their nation some other way even if they did 3 mil/100 tech deals.

Come on, post something that justifies the 3mil/50tech price for YOUR nation now. In general it will just make the drop of tech price faster. If you push for 3mil/50 tech price now then you will face 6mil/50 tech price even faster than we, the people who have done 3mil/100 tech for nearly 1000 days now. By the time your nation is about 400 days old, there will be no tech sellers because of your new standard price. And you will not pay 3 mil for 50 tech, you will pay 6 mil for 50 tech because... well, you started the motion. You will be the ones who lose the most in this, actually. You sold 3 mil for 50, you are buying for twice the price. The old nations already have gained some cheap tech from the good old tech deals...

Also, I like an old tech post from an NPO member: The main point was to create constant tech seller nations, constant buyers, constant military.

I'd cut it to constant buyers and constant sellers only. It takes 5 to 6 sellers to fill the slots of 5 buyers. About 50% of the alliance should constantly sell tech to the other 50%. Well, we make that number smaller, but you get the point. There are some nations that make sure the rest of the alliance is militarily stronger. And they do it because they are OK with their nation being small.

GR is doing this. We currently have 2 sellers like this. They are small at the moment and they are doing 3 mil for 150 tech deals. But when we manage to grow them big enough so they could produce 250 tech every 10 days without actually needing any money sent to them, we have constant tech farms that can just aid our nations up. I have a couple of old friends who are about to re-roll and do the same thing for us really soon. We will be pumping out 1000 tech every ten days in no time.

[Einer]

...

Odd, you imply that you disagree with my hypothesis, then spend the entire rest of the post agreeing with it. Business is exactly what this is, and there are better and worse business partners. High-level nations are good trade partners. Low-level nations are not. If everybody can get 3m/50 tech trades, then that's obviously because the market has already inflated far enough to allow it. My hypothesis is that it's the nations with high NS, no wars, and stable alliances that lead the way at each price jump, though.

In fact, I shall make a testable prediction in the name of Science! When the aging demographics of Cybernations push the price of tech even higher in the (perhaps not so?) distant future, it'll be the high-end sellers (with NS of ~10K or more) that first succeed in demanding 6m/50.

[IronicMaster]

It is not my wish to be a tech-farm. It's not my wish to be a constant seller.

I play a game. I compete with every other person in this game except the person who join me for some matter be as alliance friends, be as Trading-Partners.

I wish to grew my nation to Rank 00001 ASAP because I don't play a game to help the other players having more fun.

That's why I go for good prices when I'm selling and will go for good prices when I'm buying which will be not far away.

When this starts I hope for 3m/150 Sellers as you do, but if I don't get them, it would be no problem for me to pay a normal market price. Not just that it grants me a good efficience for my slots, it also grants me to come in touch with people that are willing to play a game as a game has to be played, which grants me a lot more fun with this guys in the future.

What a challenge would a guy be, dedicating his nation to be a tech farm? None.

[IronicMaster]

Odd, you imply that you disagree with my hypothesis, then spend the entire rest of the post agreeing with it. Business is exactly what this is, and there are better and worse business partners. High-level nations are good trade partners. Low-level nations are not. If everybody can get 3m/50 tech trades, then that's obviously because the market has already inflated far enough to allow it. My hypothesis is that it's the nations with high NS, no wars, and stable alliances that lead the way at each price jump, though.

In fact, I shall make a testable prediction in the name of Science! When the aging demographics of Cybernations push the price of tech even higher in the (perhaps not so?) distant future, it'll be the high-end sellers (with NS of ~10K or more) that first succeed in demanding 6m/50.

I disagree with the statement that it's only up to strong nations, to demand sufficent prices. In my opinion it's up to everybody willing to demand and able to find customers.

I repeat... It's just business

[JoshuaR]

My trick on this is to never accept 3mil/50tech deals outside my alliance and hope everyone else does the same. That destroys the demand for tech at that level, and sellers will have to lower prices (in an ideal world).

[Sande]

You will never reach the "rank 00001" alone. That's why you need a good stable alliance that can protect you and doesn't lose every single war it fights. And that's why you should help increase the tech levels of the already big nations in your alliance. You will not stay a tech farm for very long if you do 3 mil for 100 tech deals either.

The people who started the global economic depression also said that "it's just business". What happened to them? They're going bankrupt one after another.

In this game the price will not go down when it has already gone up. That's because the new and inexperienced players state the price. And some buyers are dumb enough to go with that price.

[IronicMaster]

I perhaps am willing to stay tech-SELLER longer if the prices are better. Then the income through infrastructure does not so quickly become superrior to income through tech dealing and it would be good deal for me to tech my allies up for much longer time.

Besides Great Depression has nothing to do with this game. The economical facts that led to the great depression are not even possible in a economy that is not based on credit and debt. Prices of 30m/50 or even 300m/50 could not cause a great Depression in this game. And I dont get the scenario of CN Nation to go bancrupt. Would you illustrate for me?

Edited January 11, 2010 by IronicMaster

[SleepiB]

That is unless if they are smart buyers who can buy tech cheaper than the "market" price set on the forums.

As for the first bolded part, yes, if they know sellers that still sell 100 tech for $3 million. Then you would notice it would be harder to fill your aid slots unless if you come across some really lazy and ignorant buyers.

Actually, there are more buyer than seller nations, especially when many potential sellers don't even bother with tech dealing. Try checking the CN's average NS per nation, that gives a good estimate of how top heavy CN is. A a typical 15,000+ of NS nation is usually a tech buyer nation, a game-wide average of about 19k of NS shows that CN is primary buyer heavy.

-----

Here is the clear point: Drive too many buyers away, it will be harder to land tech deals.

You fail at statistics. As of this post there are 9615 nations over 15k NS, and 15,921 nations under 15k NS, but NS isn't really a good measure of when you should start buying tech, infra is, and right now the median infra is under 2000, where people should generally start buying tech at twice that. Even if you assume all the buyers have 6 aid slots and all the sellers 5, that shifts the aid slot balance point to 2510 infra which is still about 1500 infra below where you should start buying tech.

The only reason tech prices are as they are is due to effort and activity. Any seller willing to get on IRC regularly can fill their slots with 50/3m deals, any buyer willing to message people in game can fill their slots with 3m/100 deals, and any buyer or seller posting on forums can land a 6m/150 deal. Whenever my reliable tech sellers start buying, I usually pay one or two of their sellers for a round of tech on their behalf.

[SleepiB]

I perhaps am willing to stay tech-SELLER longer if the prices are better.

Just because you might be willing to keep selling tech over 5k infra doesn't mean it's a good idea, it's not even a good idea to accept any free aid but tech.

[IronicMaster]

The only reason tech prices are as they are is due to effort and activity. Any seller willing to get on IRC regularly can fill their slots with 50/3m deals, any buyer willing to message people in game can fill their slots with 3m/100 deals, and any buyer or seller posting on forums can land a 6m/150 deal. Whenever my reliable tech sellers start buying, I usually pay one or two of their sellers for a round of tech on their behalf.

Thats totally not on my line of argumentation but i like this post very much.

Good Point.

[IronicMaster]

Just because you might be willing to keep selling tech over 5k infra doesn't mean it's a good idea, it's not even a good idea to accept any free aid but tech.

Thats not the plan...

[Hiro Nakara]

I wont pay 3/50 tech just because someone wants to go all bill gates on me. If people stoppped paying this stupid price then there would be no demand for that perticular deal, and we may go back to the way it was.

Little tip tech sellers.

Resession, inflation happen in real life Not in cybernations.

[IronicMaster]

I wont pay 3/50 tech just because someone wants to go all bill gates on me. If people stoppped paying this stupid price then there would be no demand for that perticular deal, and we may go back to the way it was.

Little tip tech sellers.

Resession, inflation happen in real life Not in cybernations.

2 little tips to you

1. If everybody was willing to do that this thread would never have been opened.

2. The Resession-Statement was made by a BUYER.

[Hiro Nakara]

Hah, I noticed your aid screen, that explains your response. Do you carry a bag with swag stamped on it? Balaclava? Striped shirt? I think sooooooo.

Point 2 went over your head, but hey ho.

Resession inflation happen in real life, yes? we agree on that. Seeing as this is a game it doesn't happen here. Due to no real cicumstances that could cause such economic failure, so in essence your just charging that price because 1.) you can 2.) your a greedy $%&@. 3.) you get muggs paying that price.

Does that explain it better for you? I can't stupidfy it anymore for you.

So it boils down to your not happy with making 1.4 mill of every 3/100 deal you want 2.2 mill profit from every 3/50 deal, so you want how much of a profit margin? GREEDY $%&@. justify it all you like its crooked and i wont pay balaclava wearing con men like you.

1 more person who reads this post and realises your greedy $%&@s is 1 less person your being able to con

Have a good day

[Locke]

Honestly, anyone who comes to the Black Market is a little desperate. They're willing to go lower to get their tech.