Ragnarok Announcement

[Delta1212]

[00:28] <Warbuck[ADI]> My log shows it, so either someone hacked me or it got deleted out of yours.

[00:32] <Warbuck[ADI]> I'll unban you from #ADI- talk to ss23 and see if people can hack the .txt file

[00:34] <Warbuck[ADI]> [02:29:04] <~Warbuck[ADI]> you are an IRC admin on another server, right?

[00:34] <Warbuck[ADI]> [02:29:24] <&ss23[ADI]> Was, I quit

[00:34] <Warbuck[ADI]> [02:29:28] <&ss23[ADI]> I was "the" admin

[00:35] <Warbuck[ADI]> [02:29:31] <~Warbuck[ADI]> can people hack your log files?

[00:35] <Warbuck[ADI]> [02:29:48] <&ss23[ADI]> that's not really a IRC related question

[00:35] <Warbuck[ADI]> [02:29:53] <&ss23[ADI]> The short answer is yes...

[00:35] <Warbuck[ADI]> so, either it was there to begin with or it was placed there

[00:35] <Warbuck[ADI]> either way, I'm going to have my IT friends redo the security on my computer now

^You are certainly dedicated to your sarcasm

11[00:39] <Hoo[AWAY]> What you're telling me is that the fake log is IN your logs?

[00:39] <Warbuck[ADI]> IF it is fake

^"If" it's fake? The best you can come up with as a retort to someone who just said the logs that are supposedly sitting right in front of you is to imply that they might not be faked? What?

And my favorite:

[00:45] <Warbuck[ADI]> idk... that was the one line that made me change my mind, tbh... and it was there.

^The one line that supposedly changed your mind on your entire stance on the war in a set of logs from a private conversation that you leaked and your excuse for why you couldn't remember it at the beginning of the conversation is that you haven't slept much and have dealt with a lot of logs? Exactly how many foreign policy changing logs have you leaked in the last three days?

[John Warbuck]

I'm going to have to agree with Canik here.

This last sentence "and they need to leave the game" just doesn't flow with the rest of the conversation. Not only does it not sound like something VanHoo would say, but it just simply looks out of place. It totally comes out of left field.

That Warbud was initially pretending to be interested in who could have edited his logs, leads me to believe that Warbud might have believed that the cat was already out of the bag that the logs were faked and so he needed to search for somebody to blame. But then, when he realized VH had no solid proof yet that the logs were faked, he backpedaled and started claiming the logs were authentic.

The whole thing just smells fishy.

Who is Warbud?

And yeah, 10th time... sarcasm... I'll point it out piece by piece.

[02:19:34] <Warbuck[ADI]> I'm looking at my log now... $%&@er gives me every conversation I ever had with you, so give me time to find it

[02:20:05] <Hoo[AWAY]> OK, it's from the 27th and they should be dated

[02:20:09] <Hoo[AWAY]> I can wait

^This is me saying "yeah, let me go check cuz this is ridiculous..... oh- look. Still there"

[02:24:10] <Warbuck[ADI]> My log shows it, so either someone hacked me or it got deleted out of yours.

^This is me basically saying "it's not a fake- either someone hacked me or you're log is wrong, and well, I wasn't hacked"

[02:24:30] <Warbuck[ADI]> what other logs were faked?

^I ACTUALLY thought he would have more- because the rest of the logs were incriminating as hell.

[02:24:42] <Hoo[AWAY]> That's the only one that I know of

^hmmmmm, I guess that everyone at least knows that whether Hoo is lying or not- everything else you see there is TRUE!

[02:27:25] <Warbuck[ADI]> I'll unban you from #ADI- talk to ss23 and see if people can hack the .txt file

^More sarcasm... actually DID ask him though cause I wanted him to say no. But he said yes, remarkably.

[02:30:30] <Warbuck[ADI]> so, either it was there to begin with or it was placed there

[02:30:50] <Warbuck[ADI]> either way, I'm going to have my IT friends redo the security on my computer now

^If at this point you don't see my sarcasm, you are a lost cause.

[Tulafaras]

hmmm what i see is someone riding a train of fail after first leaking a doctoring log and then getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Maybe we see different things?

[Canik]

That's why he would call him on it on the OWF. But in private? He wouldn't convince Warbuck of anything, he wouldn't learn anything, it'd just be pointless.

The rational reasoning is that Hoo didn't know that Warbuck faked them and wanted to see if they were changed by him, or further down the line.

Warbuck didn't fake them but g/j slipping that in there. You should be on Fox News.

VanHoo could have contacted Warbuck just so he'd be able to use the point you're trying to use now. It's not that tough, msg him up, pretend you think you can get something out of it, then post the logs to show you tried.

Not to mention the chance that Warbuck might slip up and give you guys something to work with. Like the 'hacking' thing.

[DirkNL]

So to recap, you first doctor logs, then get caught and deny the whole thing. Brilliant plan there, mate.

You lose! Good day sir!

[Tulafaras]

Warbuck didn't fake them but g/j slipping that in there. You should be on Fox News.

Nice job stating an opinion as fact you should be on Fox News.

[Rafael Nadal]

Warbuck didn't fake them but g/j slipping that in there. You should be on Fox News.

VanHoo could have contacted Warbuck just so he'd be able to use the point you're trying to use now. It's not that tough, msg him up, pretend you think you can get something out of it, then post the logs to show you tried.

Not to mention the chance that Warbuck might slip up and give you guys something to work with. Like the 'hacking' thing.

Really? You went there?

[Canik]

Nice job stating an opinion as fact you should be on Fox News.

Someone has to counter the bs (I am MSNBC)

^ I'm just kidding btw. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

EDIT: Except for the bs, that I'm not kidding about.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Canik

[NoFish]

Warbuck didn't fake them but g/j slipping that in there. You should be on Fox News.

VanHoo could have contacted Warbuck just so he'd be able to use the point you're trying to use now. It's not that tough, msg him up, pretend you think you can get something out of it, then post the logs to show you tried.

Not to mention the chance that Warbuck might slip up and give you guys something to work with. Like the 'hacking' thing.

No, no, Warbuck knew that Hoo would contact him over them so then when he made this thread and included the logs someone would make that argument, and then someone on his side could make the argument you just made!

We can keep going with this all morning if you'd like.

[Kindom of Goon]

Didn't notice the sarcasm defence before, now I'm certain Warbuck has been a very naughty boy.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

No I say it casts doubt over the validity of their word as they've already proven they cannot be trusted.

This is my view too. Given what I have seen over the years here, there are quite a few people whose word doesnt mean squat to me, and the list just keeps growing.

[Earogema]

I edited my post right after to try and make it a little more clear what I was saying, but I'll elaborate here as well. The point is, if he leaked the logs, assuming they were real, all that means is that Hoo had given him a potent PR weapon and he wanted to use it. Call it what you will, I'd say any wrong there is considerably less significant than the kind of low morals it takes to doctor it. In other words, smearing with truth isn't nearly as bad as smearing with lies. So how can you say that just because someone does the first, they are necessarily likely to be involved in the second?

That's true, yet you cannot deny that this conversation would be a private affair.

Though as a former Voxian, I'll concede the point.

[Delta1212]

I don't know about you, but I love sarcastically asking experts on the subject of my sarcastic comments about the possible validity of those sarcastic queries just to drive home the point of how sarcastic I can be. Oh yeah sarcasm.

[Earogema]

Who is Warbud?

And yeah, 10th time... sarcasm... I'll point it out piece by piece.

[02:19:34] <Warbuck[ADI]> I'm looking at my log now... $%&@er gives me every conversation I ever had with you, so give me time to find it

[02:20:05] <Hoo[AWAY]> OK, it's from the 27th and they should be dated

[02:20:09] <Hoo[AWAY]> I can wait

^This is me saying "yeah, let me go check cuz this is ridiculous..... oh- look. Still there"

First:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain

2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm

Where did you use sarcasm as stated by sarcasm's very definition?

[02:24:10] <Warbuck[ADI]> My log shows it, so either someone hacked me or it got deleted out of yours.

^This is me basically saying "it's not a fake- either someone hacked me or you're log is wrong, and well, I wasn't hacked"

Still not sarcasm. You were merely stating fact.

[02:24:30] <Warbuck[ADI]> what other logs were faked?

^I ACTUALLY thought he would have more- because the rest of the logs were incriminating as hell.

If that's what you ACTUALLY thought, then it ISN'T sarcastic.

[02:24:42] <Hoo[AWAY]> That's the only one that I know of

^hmmmmm, I guess that everyone at least knows that whether Hoo is lying or not- everything else you see there is TRUE!

This isn't even you saying anything.

[02:27:25] <Warbuck[ADI]> I'll unban you from #ADI- talk to ss23 and see if people can hack the .txt file

^More sarcasm... actually DID ask him though cause I wanted him to say no. But he said yes, remarkably.

If you actually asked, and if he actually went through with it, how can I have ever been sure it was sarcasm?

[02:30:30] <Warbuck[ADI]> so, either it was there to begin with or it was placed there

[02:30:50] <Warbuck[ADI]> either way, I'm going to have my IT friends redo the security on my computer now

^If at this point you don't see my sarcasm, you are a lost cause.

Not really a defense at this point.

[Earogema]

I don't know about you, but I love sarcastically asking experts on the subject of my sarcastic comments about the possible validity of those sarcastic queries just to drive home the point of how sarcastic I can be. Oh yeah sarcasm.

I hate it when people do this.

I wonder if he's been sarcastic this entire time.

[Hayzell]

So, either Hoo is lying and intentionally attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy AND force them out of the game, or Hoo is telling the truth and is just attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy? I'm obviously not inclined to trust Hoo but even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt it doesn't look good to me.

The idea that this whole war was a trumped up means of warmongers trying to assault the ex-Hegemony for being ex-Hegemony can no longer be labeled absurd paranoia, it's been admitted.

[Jens of the desert]

Spend less time doctoring logs, more time writing up dow's is all I can say...

[von Metternich]

* La_Famzy[RoK] divides by 0

<Yosh[Ag]> NO

*universe collapses*

^I would like to believe that this is relevant to this discussion.

[Earogema]

So, either Hoo is lying and intentionally attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy AND force them out of the game, or Hoo is telling the truth and is just attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy? I'm obviously not inclined to trust Hoo but even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt it doesn't look good to me.

The idea that this whole war was a trumped up means of warmongers trying to assault the ex-Hegemony for being ex-Hegemony can no longer be labeled absurd paranoia, it's been admitted.

Because Rok never had a treaty with NPO, right?

[silentkiller]

If Hoo's logs prove nothing then the possibly faked ones prove nothing as well.

Why is TOP trying to rally support for it's defense of IRON with logs that "prove nothing"? Seems you are trying to use logs only when convenient. The truthfulness of them doesn't really matter to TOP I guess.

167,635 Attacking + 315,675 Defending = 483,310 Casualties

Now we know why you have such a low number after 1000 days of playing. Been running much?

On topic there really is no way t find out who's lying and we have to take each of them on their word, so I guess I'll just read till the admitted truth bit and ignore stuff after that. Not to say they arent bad enough.

Edited December 31, 2009 by silentkiller

[Poyplemonkeys]

So, either Hoo is lying and intentionally attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy AND force them out of the game, or Hoo is telling the truth and is just attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy? I'm obviously not inclined to trust Hoo but even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt it doesn't look good to me.

The idea that this whole war was a trumped up means of warmongers trying to assault the ex-Hegemony for being ex-Hegemony can no longer be labeled absurd paranoia, it's been admitted.

Where?

[Canik]

So, either Hoo is lying and intentionally attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy AND force them out of the game, or Hoo is telling the truth and is just attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy? I'm obviously not inclined to trust Hoo but even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt it doesn't look good to me.

The idea that this whole war was a trumped up means of warmongers trying to assault the ex-Hegemony for being ex-Hegemony can no longer be labeled absurd paranoia, it's been admitted.

Booyah!

That's the nitty-gritty of it right thar.

As I've said before, TPF already accepted (and paid) terms for the Karma War, in which their supposed 'crimes' were committed. Now they are suffering again, for the same war, and for simply being ex-Hegemony.

And the rest of us seem to have to suffer for being friends with TPF and for being ex-Heg.

[Tomcat]

Who is Warbud?

Oops. Forgive me, I'm an old timer.

That name brings back memories.

[Haflinger]

Where?

In the OP.

[Jerichoholic]

So, either Hoo is lying and intentionally attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy AND force them out of the game, or Hoo is telling the truth and is just attempting to harm IRON and CDT by proxy? I'm obviously not inclined to trust Hoo but even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt it doesn't look good to me.

The idea that this whole war was a trumped up means of warmongers trying to assault the ex-Hegemony for being ex-Hegemony can no longer be labeled absurd paranoia, it's been admitted.

Outside of the "and they need to leave the game" line (which is being debated), I don't see any intention to do you harm (By proxy or otherwise), just that you need to change your ways because, in his opinion, they don't fly anymore (whether that is true or not is a topic for another thread) . I don't see anything malicious about saying a nation needs to evolve, especially when you include the part about Ragnarok and Polar both evolving and becoming allies.

Edit: Making it clearer

Edited December 31, 2009 by Jerichoholic