Smashed Indeed

[justavictim82]

You ignore us for months

This is the important part. Lets be honest here Athens you have ignored us on the level of anything that you have planned for the last 4-5 months since the Karma war ended, dropped a protection plot that you suggested that we take part in (as well you you) with gga only to drop at the last minute without giving an excuse then ask us to jump an alliance that you hold a 6 to 1 advantage of with 3 other alliances going in, not to mention giving us 2 hours notice about this?

Lets be honest here Athens hasnt been a true partner to MASH ever and it was a one sided street from the get go. They have done nothing to aid mash in any attempt or hold up their end of an exclusive treaty that we signed with them. We have been an afterthought to them in all diplomatic sense, which is not what we signed up for. Whether the CB was justified or not, how do you justify attacking us in front of Bob when we are talking with our allies who HAVE been there for us and discussing staying neutral unless they are brought into this fight? We have no tues to TPF and have had no conversations with them in the last 6 months.

Shame on Athens

Good Luck in the future

BTW Jgoods you are one hell of a good diplo, I hold no beef with you but your leadership needs to grow up and let their 'allies' outside of C&G into the picture.

[Alterego]

Was that the senate thing with Avalon? I can understand those concerns.

There was much more than that.

[Bob Janova]

Did they really have a coalition channel not set to private?

[AirMe]

There was much more than that.

I am not privy to anything like that. <clueless>

[Trace]

This is the important part. Lets be honest here Athens you have ignored us on the level of anything that you have planned for the last 4-5 months since the Karma war ended, dropped a protection plot that you suggested that we take part in (as well you you) with gga only to drop at the last minute without giving an excuse then ask us to jump an alliance that you hold a 6 to 1 advantage of with 3 other alliances going in, not to mention giving us 2 hours notice about this?

Lets be honest here Athens hasnt been a true partner to MASH ever and it was a one sided street from the get go. They have done nothing to aid mash in any attempt or hold up their end of an exclusive treaty that we signed with them. We have been an afterthought to them in all diplomatic sense, which is not what we signed up for. Whether the CB was justified or not, how do you justify attacking us in front of Bob when we are talking with our allies who HAVE been there for us and discussing staying neutral unless they are brought into this fight? We have no tues to TPF and have had no conversations with them in the last 6 months.

Shame on Athens

Good Luck in the future

BTW Jgoods you are one hell of a good diplo, I hold no beef with you but your leadership needs to grow up and let their 'allies' outside of C&G into the picture.

Regarding the '2 hours' whining. You were notified at the same time as all the rest of Athens' allies. It was 24 hours notice (about 48 hours notice after Athens found out, and 24hrs or so after they decided to go to war.). Then, due to TPF finding out (as has been alleged came from YOU because YOU didn't want a part in it), TPF started jumping to peace mode, so Athens decided to move up the timetable by 24 hours. That was not to spite you in any way, so seriously, quit the griping on that particular point.

As for a one way street? No, communication is two ways, sorry.

[madalchemist]

o/ MASH!

[Ryan McNally]

o/ MASH

[Jgoods45]

Did they really have a coalition channel not set to private?

Yes. Got some very.. nice stuff. :3

Also, M*A*S*H, I am very sad to see it come to this. I love you guys, and I will always respect you. Good luck with whatever you do, hopefully, someday, we can mend our relations. Till then, cya dudes around. <3

Flonker, Dran <333

[Flonker]

Purple isn't even engaged in war. o_O We're in engaged in a war and (were) allied to you. Just because you didn't want to go on the aggressive, which we never asked you to do (if you want to accuse us of such, it should be easy to logdump us making such demands, so please do so). We told you what was up, invited you into our defensive planning and then you up and left and said you weren't going to defend us, if need be, but alliances not even engaged in war.

Also, did you really Flonker too unwise to admit leaking? You just said you released privileged information to enemies that your allies were engaged with when they met some sort of "comic" qualification. How do I know you don't have a sick and twisted sense of humour where you leak information about us attacking TPF to them 5 minutes after we tell you?

I say no thanks, I don't buy your spin. We count on our allies just as much as they count on us, and so we are here.

As I mentioned, said logs were posted to a non-public viewable forum for briefing the officer corps and advisors. We didn't post them on the OWF, ffs.

A snippet from the other night. Raccoon, you should recognise this:

<angryraccoon|athens> well we were  not at war with them no matter what people might say

<angryraccoon|athens> they could have targeted any of the people they were fighting

<angryraccoon|athens> also that type of operation takes months

<angryraccoon|athens> no way that it would not go past the end of the war

<angryraccoon|athens> and ZH did follow through with securing our protectorATE

<angryraccoon|athens> and getting close

<angryraccoon|athens> anyways why I came to you know

<angryraccoon|athens> now

<Flonker> the q treaty says, 'fight 1, fight all'.  so does c&g's charter, yes?

<Flonker> so technically, yeah, they were in a state of war, just in another theatre from you

<angryraccoon|athens> every treaty does .. by that token we consider this a defencive war vs TPF

<angryraccoon|athens> you are at war with them xD

<Flonker> i'll inform the generals

Athens demanding our compliance with the 'defense' portion of the treaty in a clearly agressive war. And so we are here.

[Ejayrazz]

Edited. One second.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[Irish Wolf]

Regarding the '2 hours' whining. You were notified at the same time as all the rest of Athens' allies. It was 24 hours notice (about 48 hours notice after Athens found out, and 24hrs or so after they decided to go to war.). Then, due to TPF finding out (as has been alleged came from YOU because YOU didn't want a part in it), TPF started jumping to peace mode, so Athens decided to move up the timetable by 24 hours. That was not to spite you in any way, so seriously, quit the griping on that particular point.

As for a one way street? No, communication is two ways, sorry.

Oh no, not the dreaded PEACE MODE!

Seriously, why whould that have hurt Athens et al, unless they were hell bent on destroying TPF...

I remember hitting peace mode a couple of years back, noWedge was less than impressed with our move then - something similar to what I've seen from MK now.

[magicninja]

As I mentioned, said logs were posted to a non-public viewable forum for briefing the officer corps and advisors. We didn't post them on the OWF, ffs.

A snippet from the other night. Raccoon, you should recognise this:

<angryraccoon|athens> well we were  not at war with them no matter what people might say

<angryraccoon|athens> they could have targeted any of the people they were fighting

<angryraccoon|athens> also that type of operation takes months

<angryraccoon|athens> no way that it would not go past the end of the war

<angryraccoon|athens> and ZH did follow through with securing our protectorATE

<angryraccoon|athens> and getting close

<angryraccoon|athens> anyways why I came to you know

<angryraccoon|athens> now

<Flonker> the q treaty says, 'fight 1, fight all'.  so does c&g's charter, yes?

<Flonker> so technically, yeah, they were in a state of war, just in another theatre from you

<angryraccoon|athens> every treaty does .. by that token we consider this a defencive war vs TPF

<angryraccoon|athens> you are at war with them xD

<Flonker> i'll inform the generals

Athens demanding our compliance with the 'defense' portion of the treaty in a clearly agressive war. And so we are here.

Nothing in there about oA. Also, you didn't even question why they thought it to be defensive. You just went off to inform the generals to come into their defensive planning chan and take the convo back to TPF's planning chan. Pretty underhanded and decietful. I've always known how MASH was anyway so it doesn't surprise me.

[justavictim82]

Regarding the '2 hours' whining. You were notified at the same time as all the rest of Athens' allies. It was 24 hours notice (about 48 hours notice after Athens found out, and 24hrs or so after they decided to go to war.). Then, due to TPF finding out (as has been alleged came from YOU because YOU didn't want a part in it), TPF started jumping to peace mode, so Athens decided to move up the timetable by 24 hours. That was not to spite you in any way, so seriously, quit the griping on that particular point.

As for a one way street? No, communication is two ways, sorry.

come from us? try not! those logs of the #grudge came from last night which was 48 hours after this conflict began sorry but do try again before blaming us. At the time we were informed we had one officer on IRC and that was our Econ officer and none of our generals were online until the following day (1 worked, 2 are on vacation) so how could we have leaked squat? And even if by some chance we did, where is your proof?

I repeat and ill make sure i get this point across, M*A*S*H has at no contact in the last 6 months with TPF in fact they do not even have an embassy in our Foreign Affairs hall so yes it was definately us that told them.

[George the Great]

This is the important part. Lets be honest here Athens you have ignored us on the level of anything that you have planned for the last 4-5 months since the Karma war ended, dropped a protection plot that you suggested that we take part in (as well you you) with gga only to drop at the last minute without giving an excuse then ask us to jump an alliance that you hold a 6 to 1 advantage of with 3 other alliances going in, not to mention giving us 2 hours notice about this?

See, if we have a 6 to 1 advantage, it makes no sense to even ask you guys to enact the oA. You can't attack an alliance with more than a 3 to 1 numerical advantage, that's how this planet works. We only asked for you guys to defend us, and you agreed. Then you changed your minds and we had to find out the hard way. If you wanted to be on the other side, or even neutral, you shouldn't have told us you'd have our back... Talk about being honest.

As I mentioned, said logs were posted to a non-public viewable forum for briefing the officer corps and advisors. We didn't post them on the OWF, ffs.

A snippet from the other night. Raccoon, you should recognise this:

-snip logs-

Athens demanding our compliance with the 'defense' portion of the treaty in a clearly agressive war. And so we are here.

So he said: "you are at war with them xD"

Before that he said we consider this a DEFENSIVE war, which would imply the D part of the MDoAP would be enacted. This was just him explaining that we view this as a defensive war. We didn't even ask you to activate our treaty to defend us from TPF. Again, at no point did we ever ask you to attack TPF. That would be completely unnecessary. The only thing we asked you to do was defend us if we got hit.

So that's us demanding? Using a comical--all right, it wasn't really funny--analogy to explain to you that we view this war as defensive?

[R3nowned]

"You are at war with them" implies that they should enter in aggressive action against TPF no?

Unless that's also called defensive now.

[michaeru]

This thread is a good example of an open information policy. Both sides share their view on an issue with the rest of the 'verse and we're free to discuss mindlessly hail. Hooray for that.

Not so hooray for this cancellation. Shame on thee, MASH.

Edited December 30, 2009 by michaeru

[shahenshah]

I guess they didnt wanted to use oA.

Good luck to all.

[rsoxbronco1]

This is the important part. Lets be honest here Athens you have ignored us on the level of anything that you have planned for the last 4-5 months since the Karma war ended, dropped a protection plot that you suggested that we take part in (as well you you) with gga only to drop at the last minute without giving an excuse then ask us to jump an alliance that you hold a 6 to 1 advantage of with 3 other alliances going in, not to mention giving us 2 hours notice about this?

Lets be honest here Athens hasnt been a true partner to MASH ever and it was a one sided street from the get go. They have done nothing to aid mash in any attempt or hold up their end of an exclusive treaty that we signed with them. We have been an afterthought to them in all diplomatic sense, which is not what we signed up for. Whether the CB was justified or not, how do you justify attacking us in front of Bob when we are talking with our allies who HAVE been there for us and discussing staying neutral unless they are brought into this fight? We have no tues to TPF and have had no conversations with them in the last 6 months.

Shame on Athens

Good Luck in the future

BTW Jgoods you are one hell of a good diplo, I hold no beef with you but your leadership needs to grow up and let their 'allies' outside of C&G into the picture.

This war wasn't started for any reasons beyond what I stated in the OP.

SF wasn't after FEAR.

C&G/SF/Stickmen weren't after Purple

Nobody wanted to hit NPO or keep them under terms.

And how do we have communications problems with a Minister of Foreign Affairs so good that you give him a shout out?

[Flonker]

Nothing in there about oA. Also, you didn't even question why they thought it to be defensive. You just went off to inform the generals to come into their defensive planning chan and take the convo back to TPF's planning chan. Pretty underhanded and decietful. I've always known how MASH was anyway so it doesn't surprise me.

I 'informed the Generals' by posting the convo in our Officer's Club, which for those who haven't been paying attention, is our government and advisor only section of our offsite. Standard operating procedure from Day 1 for all diplomatic contacts. I'm loving how this is getting spun from 'posting to a private government and advisor only area for briefing purposes' to 'deliberately leaking logs to 'The Enemy''.

There is NO TPF embassy on our offsite. Never has been. We've never had diplomatic contact with them. Do I think mhawk tried a complete fumducker move with trying to set Athens up for internal disruption? You betcha. It gives the expression 'monumentally STOOPID' a whole new dimension.

Was Athens informed of our intent to remain totally neutral except for Purple defense? Yup. Did they try to 'spin' us out of neutrality by reclassifying an agressive war as 'defensive'? Yup. Did members of Athens government demand our participation in their military adventurism via said spin? Yup. Was M*A*S*H rather taken back by Athens' move to shoot first and not bother with diplomacy? Absolutely.

Now, did M*A*S*H think Athens had grievences? Sure. We just didn't care to get involved with what was looking to become Karma 2.0 just because Athens and their allies wanted some more blood and didn't bother being diplomatic about it. Say what you will about NPO, at least they gave the APPEARANCE of trying for the diplomatic solution first, even if some of the time they were secretly loading their guns. Make no mistake about it, this is a purely agressive war. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has a waterproof $@!, you ain't convincin me it's an aardark.

So. Where's your proof that M*A*S*H leaked info to 'The Enemy'? Love to see those logs.

[rsoxbronco1]

I 'informed the Generals' by posting the convo in our Officer's Club, which for those who haven't been paying attention, is our government and advisor only section of our offsite. Standard operating procedure from Day 1 for all diplomatic contacts. I'm loving how this is getting spun from 'posting to a private government and advisor only area for briefing purposes' to 'deliberately leaking logs to 'The Enemy''.

There is NO TPF embassy on our offsite. Never has been. We've never had diplomatic contact with them. Do I think mhawk tried a complete fumducker move with trying to set Athens up for internal disruption? You betcha. It gives the expression 'monumentally STOOPID' a whole new dimension.

Was Athens informed of our intent to remain totally neutral except for Purple defense? Yup. Did they try to 'spin' us out of neutrality by reclassifying an agressive war as 'defensive'? Yup. Did members of Athens government demand our participation in their military adventurism via said spin? Yup. Was M*A*S*H rather taken back by Athens' move to shoot first and not bother with diplomacy? Absolutely.

Now, did M*A*S*H think Athens had grievences? Sure. We just didn't care to get involved with what was looking to become Karma 2.0 just because Athens and their allies wanted some more blood and didn't bother being diplomatic about it. Say what you will about NPO, at least they gave the APPEARANCE of trying for the diplomatic solution first, even if some of the time they were secretly loading their guns. Make no mistake about it, this is a purely agressive war. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has a waterproof $@!, you ain't convincin me it's an aardark.

So. Where's your proof that M*A*S*H leaked info to 'The Enemy'? Love to see those logs.

Where did you say you were going neutral and was that before or after you joined the planning chan for TPF and allies?

[Fantastico]

Was Athens informed of our intent to remain totally neutral except for Purple defense? Yup. Did they try to 'spin' us out of neutrality by reclassifying an agressive war as 'defensive'? Yup. Did members of Athens government demand our participation in their military adventurism via said spin? Yup. Was M*A*S*H rather taken back by Athens' move to shoot first and not bother with diplomacy? Absolutely.

In fairness to Athens, purple is kind of a big deal in this conflict.

As for the 2nd-4th allegations, you clearly should never have been allies in the first place so this cancellation is a good thing.

[Alterego]

In fairness to Athens, purple is kind of a big deal in this conflict.

Only if they had designs on Purple.

[Fantastico]

Only if they had designs on Purple.

Well, hello Mr. Spin

You are fast, I'll give you that.

[rsoxbronco1]

Only if they had designs on Purple.

You may not believe it, but C&G has never seriously plotted against purple and this war had nothing to do with purple for us.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

Only if they had designs on Purple.

I would rather we had designs in Purple. I hear purple is the new "in", these days.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Tolkien