Rush Sykes Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I find it to be truly astounding that people can read those logs, and defend mhawk's complicity in this matter. He played a hand in this operation at every step. Even went so far as to issue instruction on how they should proceed. When asking about the operation, he asks for a sitrep. That one word says a mouthful. All of you who want to tie this, by extension to the Karma war, and say "ZOMG, he took actions against a wartime enemy"....Learn the facts. Athens and TPF had NO front during the Karma war. They were not at war with us. This operation is completely independent of ANY of TPFs actions against alliances that they were at war with. This was an outright attack on Athens. Uprovoked. Keep this in mind as you make your judgements. If a prisoner attacks another prisoner, he does not get a pass because he has already been punished for a past crime. He gets an additional punishment, because the law never becomes invalid. Thank you, and Godspeed to Athen, Rok, GOD, \m/ and all of our wonderful friends and allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Because they voluntarily turned over the evidence and privately apologized, we currently have no plans to punish them. (We literally found out Christmas day)This would without a doubt be much more serious if we found out from another source. That source could only be TPF, however, and I can assure you we didn't get them from TPF. Christmas day?! Did you not think to investigate the claims that Zero Hour made? Why would you trust them if they encouraged and actually attempted to spy on you (even after they provided logs)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Alright, cool. So, someone said earlier that ZH stopped their plan a while ago, August I think. Are you saying ZH didn't tell you till just a few days ago despite having stopped way back in August? They didn't know how to tell us because they didn't know how we would react. They informed Zulchep of this plot a few days ago as she is a member of Zero Hour and is a member of government. They asked for her advise on how to handle it because they highly value her opinion. She told them to come clean and to be completely honest about it. So, thats what they did, and here we are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 So an action concocted in war time but never actually used?The CB is getting thinner by the minute. I think the air at this altitude is getting thinner, some people are losing blood flow and hallucinating it appears. When was it said that it was never used? He said it stopped, not that it wasn't used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zizka Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hmmm...I see a lot of interesting alliances that TPF has treaties with... or is TPF going down alone this time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daikos Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Every single one of your points has been responded to already. Yes, but it's RV so he will probably ask them a couple hundred more times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Good luck athens. o/Don't know what to think about you guys attacking after update - not exactly the smartest move there, unless you wanted to leave them on your feet, which I think you succeed at. Not expected, at all. Once again, good luck. It was supposed to be before the next update but TPF started hitting peace mode so it was decided now would be the best time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) double post Edited December 27, 2009 by WarriorConcept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixoux Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hmmm...I see a lot of interesting alliances that TPF has treaties with... or is TPF going down alone this time? Maybe Mhawk will be the martyr from peace mode and suspend all their treaties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Wasn't this happening while TPF was under attack and threatened with eternal war? Like I mentioned to someone else, shouldn't have TPF come clean and halted this when they got peace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 The nation of whatever you lead need not act like it is now and should have become a lot more aggressive.Also cool story bro. But that would mean that my nation would have been ignorant of my opponent's motives and would have been much more likely to misunderstand him/her. I prefer to thoroughly investigate an issue before acting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythegfx Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Well. this'll be fun, good luck Athens, and to my friend Airikr, Good luck to you as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Christmas day?! Did you not think to investigate the claims that Zero Hour made? Why would you trust them if they encouraged and actually attempted to spy on you (even after they provided logs)? If they just made claims, that would be one thing. They provided an overwhelming amount of evidence and their personal stories. DrunkMonkey and Yohan were to infiltrate Athens. Shadow was to infiltrate Rok. They specifically targeted us due to our reputation as merger alliances because it would give them a fast track to access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulchep Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Before you all continue, let me ask you this. How many of you condemned either Vox or FAN when they used these very same tactics against the NPO and Co.?Also, as Heft said, this is some very weak material. Seeing how it is from the Karma War when TPF was being promised eternal war it is even more suspicious. Kind of funny how you are just shown this shortly after TPF finishes paying reps. I'm sorry, RV. This was all my fault and doing. Because of our impending graduation from protectorate status, as well as possible pacts and treaties in the works, the rest of the ZH government (those who had been involved in the plot, at least) felt that it was best to reveal, after months of discussion, the origins of Zero Hour. Being the public face of Zero Hour, as her Minister of Foreign Affairs, I suggested that the best course of action would be to take this to Athens and disclose this information in full honesty. You should not keep things from your closest allies. Athens, for all intents and purposes, is our foster mother. You don't keep secrets from Mommy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyt92 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hmmm...I see a lot of interesting alliances that TPF has treaties with... or is TPF going down alone this time? I'd predict we'll have another coalition of cowards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 But that would mean that my nation would have been ignorant of my opponent's motives and would have been much more likely to misunderstand him/her. I prefer to thoroughly investigate an issue before acting. And we prefer to ensure the security of our alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyrinx Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Athens offered an upgrade to ZH and ZH did not want to sign without coming clean. Here's what I'm not getting, going by Athen's version of events ZH was tasked with infiltrating Athens to try and destroy it. I'm not sure how exactly since I don't know how a few people could destroy an alliance, but I'll put that aside for now. ZH abandons this plan a really long time ago, and doesn't want to tell Athens now because they feel guilty about upgrading a treaty. This just rubs me wrong. If ZH was really remorseful, wouldn't it have been prudent to come clean immediately after the plot was canceled by them? Can someone from ZH clarify what their thought process was on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Before you all continue, let me ask you this. How many of you condemned either Vox or FAN when they used these very same tactics against the NPO and Co.?Also, as Heft said, this is some very weak material. Seeing how it is from the Karma War when TPF was being promised eternal war it is even more suspicious. Kind of funny how you are just shown this shortly after TPF finishes paying reps. Why does this keep having to be repeated. Athens was not at war with TPF. Also, TPF was never promised eternal war. They could have surrendered at any time. It was their own stubborness that kept them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minilla Island Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Do what needs to be done, Athens. Forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 They didn't know how to tell us because they didn't know how we would react. They informed Zulchep of this plot a few days ago as she is a member of Zero Hour and is a member of government. They asked for her advise on how to handle it because they highly value her opinion. She told them to come clean and to be completely honest about it. So, thats what they did, and here we are today. But why would you trust their word only before declaring war? Didn't they encourage the formation of the spy operation? Didn't they agree to spy on you? Given that, why didn't you look for other sources of information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathias Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Like I mentioned to someone else, shouldn't have TPF come clean and halted this when they got peace? No, mhawk is a trustworthy guy, why would he have to be accountable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyrinx Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 They didn't know how to tell us because they didn't know how we would react. They informed Zulchep of this plot a few days ago as she is a member of Zero Hour and is a member of government. They asked for her advise on how to handle it because they highly value her opinion. She told them to come clean and to be completely honest about it. So, thats what they did, and here we are today. This thread is moving fast, so didn't see this. Ok, that makes more sense. I still find their behavior a bit questionable, but if you're ok with it then that's cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 When was it said that it was never used? He said it stopped, not that it wasn't used. So far there hasn't been any proof that they did. Athens said ZH turned over evidence, so what was it? If it was just those logs, that's proof of intention but not the act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Here's what I'm not getting, going by Athen's version of events ZH was tasked with infiltrating Athens to try and destroy it. I'm not sure how exactly since I don't know how a few people could destroy an alliance, but I'll put that aside for now. ZH abandons this plan a really long time ago, and doesn't want to tell Athens now because they feel guilty about upgrading a treaty.This just rubs me wrong. If ZH was really remorseful, wouldn't it have been prudent to come clean immediately after the plot was canceled by them? Can someone from ZH clarify what their thought process was on this? I get what you are saying, but I think they were worried about the repercussions from Athens. I can't be sure though, not being a member of ZH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I'd predict we'll have another coalition of cowards. To be honest, I don't see it that way. I can say that Athens would have some serious issues with defending an ally who started an espionage program against an alliance they weren't at war with based on grudges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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