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How to address infra buying


TheNakedJimbo
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Dearest friends, the travesty of infrastructure buying has gone on long enough. We all know this already but none of us has the fortitude to make it stop. I might be a young and idealistic nation but I think that we can all band together and put a stop to this worldwide plague of infra buying one step at a time.

Part the First: Overview of the Problem

1. The central crux of this problem is that every nation in CN is given a "nation ranking," comparing itself to other nations. This creates an atmosphere of competition. Growing yourself comes at the direct expense of other nations' ranks. The system is set up in a way that, just by minding your own business, you're keeping other people down, mashing their face in your rumpus so to speak, preventing them from ever climbing in the rankings. Every time you buy infra, you're keeping other people from going up in the rankings.

2. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that there are rewards - actual, honest to Johnny rewards! - for having a nation in the top 5% of all nations. Specifically I am speaking of the ability to buy nuclear weapons. Nations who are not in the top 5% are penalized for their rank - in other words, they suffer because you have bought infra. I'm not just speaking to the top 5% here. I'm speaking to everyone who is a higher rank than I am, the ones who are between me and my top-5% goal. I have to shell out for a $100 million wonder because you're all so selfish that you won't stop buying infra. How can you live with yourselves at night?

Part the Second: A Framework for Solution

1. I posit that nations should adopt a posture of responsibility for their own actions and growth choices. I want to see nations being held accountable for the fact that their decision to buy infra costs me something. Some nations are okay with this blatant selfishness, but I don't think that blind self-interest is a paradigm that we in CN should be encouraging. Your actions do have ramifications. They are going to cost me $100 million for a wonder. It starts by admitting that the problem is you. You have bought infra. You have created this state of affairs. But you can help fix it.

2. I have concluded that nominal financial aid, in the term of $2.5 million from every nation larger than me, would enable me to purchase this wonder without incurring any debt of my own. That is to say, the selfish growth choices of other nations will not cost me anything. This is a world of real accountability, real financial responsibility. This is a CN world that I want to be a part of. Will you take the bold step of helping erase the footprint of your injustice?

3. I will take my own advice and admit that I am part of the problem as well. I am willing to aid $2.5 million to each nation smaller than me to offset the footprint of my own infra purchasing choices. I do not have the money for this until the larger nations begin aiding me - you can see again the consequences of their growth elitism in action - but I agree in principle to this course of action once the funds are made available to me by my oppressors.

4. I realize that it will take somewhere on the order of a year and a half for all this aid I have proposed to go through. It will not be easy or simple, but I don't think we can allow this to dissuade us. We cannot continue to revel in blind selfishness and inaction while this injustice takes place!

Truly, I tell you, that the time has arrived to

Hoist off the chains and shackles of the great

Injustice that has gripped all of CN up to now.

Stand up, and demand to be heard by all!

Please, do not dismiss what I am saying with

Out considering the full ramifications. Can you

Say that the world would not be a better world

Tomorrow if we all took this advice?

I think all nations should appoint a diplomat of

Some kind in order to address this issue.

Anybody with me? Quote this if you're down!

January is the start of a new year, and if

Only it could be the beginning of the end of

Kings and peasants dining at the same table,

Eating without the ever going hungry!

Let's do this, people! We can do it, but

Only if we all band together! Won't you

Let me hear all your voices!

We're!

Here!

All!

Together!

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ahaha...

Nation ranks mean very little except as a measure of war, so that large nations won't pound smaller nations, but will fight nations on even footing.

That's a function of nation strength, not nation rank. Sounds to me like you're one of the shirkers who won't be sending me my $2.5 mil!

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Nation ranks matter when pertaining to who may purchase nuclear weapons.

Not really. I assume most alliances have some sort of growth program, and some alliances would have some kind of program to help you buy a MP.

Seriously, if you want to wait until you're in the top 5% to buy nukes... you may as well forget it. MP is a much easier route. 100mil isn't much afterall, and neither is it difficult to get to 5k infra to get the appropriate income to support your nukes.

That's a function of nation strength, not nation rank. Sounds to me like you're one of the shirkers who won't be sending me my $2.5 mil!

The most strongest nations are restricted by rank rather than strength :P

Also, I'll send you 2.5mil if you want to send me 50 tech in return! haha

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It is, according to some of the older players out there with large nations, of concern to them that it is virtually impossible to actually grow your nation with more skill so as to overtake someone who has been around longer, and therefore has a huge advantage over them in those stakes. It is not about idiotic notions of morality but rather a simple gripe about game mechanics around which discussion should take place as to how to improve it.

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Not really. I assume most alliances have some sort of growth program, and some alliances would have some kind of program to help you buy a MP.

Seriously, if you want to wait until you're in the top 5% to buy nukes... you may as well forget it. MP is a much easier route. 100mil isn't much afterall, and neither is it difficult to get to 5k infra to get the appropriate income to support your nukes.

While these are salient points, I still object to the fact that someone else - me personally or my alliance - must pay the price for other nations' selfish growth and infra purchases. Why should we foot the bill because other nations, in their shameless self-interest seeking, keep us down and choose to remain ignorant of that fact?

Also, I'll send you 2.5mil if you want to send me 50 tech in return! haha

If this deal is still on the table in a couple weeks when I finally have an aid slot open, I'll be all for it. See, this is the kind of win/win solution I'm talking about. I get money which benefits me and helps offset the effects of your selfish growth, and you get tech which benefits you. It doesn't have to be either/or; you don't have to profit at my expense when we could easily profit together.

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I am going to assume you are serious and give you a serious answer.

Dearest friends, the travesty of infrastructure buying has gone on long enough. We all know this already but none of us has the fortitude to make it stop. I might be a young and idealistic nation but I think that we can all band together and put a stop to this worldwide plague of infra buying one step at a time.

Part the First: Overview of the Problem

1. The central crux of this problem is that every nation in CN is given a "nation ranking," comparing itself to other nations. This creates an atmosphere of competition. Growing yourself comes at the direct expense of other nations' ranks. The system is set up in a way that, just by minding your own business, you're keeping other people down, mashing their face in your rumpus so to speak, preventing them from ever climbing in the rankings. Every time you buy infra, you're keeping other people from going up in the rankings.

Problem here is I do not care about my ranking, The only true measure of growth is how much you have improved against your own performance.

When you compare yourself to others you will always be disappointed, since there will always be people who are better than you.

2. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that there are rewards - actual, honest to Johnny rewards! - for having a nation in the top 5% of all nations. Specifically I am speaking of the ability to buy nuclear weapons. Nations who are not in the top 5% are penalized for their rank - in other words, they suffer because you have bought infra. I'm not just speaking to the top 5% here. I'm speaking to everyone who is a higher rank than I am, the ones who are between me and my top-5% goal. I have to shell out for a $100 million wonder because you're all so selfish that you won't stop buying infra. How can you live with yourselves at night?

I purchased a MP with very little difficulty and now I am enjoying the green glowing goodness of the nukes, and as an upside I am not in the top 5% so not everyone I will face will have a MP & nukes so I am better off than a top 5% nation who can almost be 100% certain of facing a nuclear armed opponent every time they fight. so the 100mil investment was money well spent.

Part the Second: A Framework for Solution

1. I posit that nations should adopt a posture of responsibility for their own actions and growth choices. I want to see nations being held accountable for the fact that their decision to buy infra costs me something. Some nations are okay with this blatant selfishness, but I don't think that blind self-interest is a paradigm that we in CN should be encouraging. Your actions do have ramifications. They are going to cost me $100 million for a wonder. It starts by admitting that the problem is you. You have bought infra. You have created this state of affairs. But you can help fix it.

The situation is actually caused by some nations being in the game longer than other nations, and earning their position by slowly acquiring infra. And a lot that is being done to address the gap such as offering startup aid packages with amounts of cash being given to new nations that would of been unheard of back in the early days of planet Bob. (Polar for instance has skiing aid to help nations easily buy 3800 infra in a matter of weeks, compared to the months it would take to get to that point unassisted)

2. I have concluded that nominal financial aid, in the term of $2.5 million from every nation larger than me, would enable me to purchase this wonder without incurring any debt of my own. That is to say, the selfish growth choices of other nations will not cost me anything. This is a world of real accountability, real financial responsibility. This is a CN world that I want to be a part of. Will you take the bold step of helping erase the footprint of your injustice?

100m will take about 20 or so days to save up for when you are at the tech/infra level that can purchase one. and 20 days is really not that long.

3. I will take my own advice and admit that I am part of the problem as well. I am willing to aid $2.5 million to each nation smaller than me to offset the footprint of my own infra purchasing choices. I do not have the money for this until the larger nations begin aiding me - you can see again the consequences of their growth elitism in action - but I agree in principle to this course of action once the funds are made available to me by my oppressors.

I already doing this and sending aid off to smaller nations for tech deals and they grow far more than I do in terms of NS as a result, so my impact is negligible.

4. I realize that it will take somewhere on the order of a year and a half for all this aid I have proposed to go through. It will not be easy or simple, but I don't think we can allow this to dissuade us. We cannot continue to revel in blind selfishness and inaction while this injustice takes place!

Patience is a virtue, stick with it and you will be rewarded.

Truly, I tell you, that the time has arrived to

Hoist off the chains and shackles of the great

Injustice that has gripped all of CN up to now.

Stand up, and demand to be heard by all!

Please, do not dismiss what I am saying with

Out considering the full ramifications. Can you

Say that the world would not be a better world

Tomorrow if we all took this advice?

I think all nations should appoint a diplomat of

Some kind in order to address this issue.

Anybody with me? Quote this if you're down!

January is the start of a new year, and if

Only it could be the beginning of the end of

Kings and peasants dining at the same table,

Eating without the ever going hungry!

Let's do this, people! We can do it, but

Only if we all band together! Won't you

Let me hear all your voices!

We're!

Here!

All!

Together!

That is actually quite a nice poem.

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I am going to assume you are serious and give you a serious answer.

The poem should demonstrate how serious I am.

I'm merely arguing that age and growth elitism are responsible for the fact that I have to spend $100 mil on a wonder in the first place. That's 100 mil that I can't spend on other things, but have to funnel into an MP because other nations above me won't stop growing and let me into the top 5%. It's thoroughly ridiculous that I can never overcome their age handicap. The only justice would come if they stopped buying infra and started taking responsibility for their actions, sending aid to the other countries like me which have been squished under their jackboots of selfishness.

20 days may not be that big a deal but it is still a deal, and it's still a travesty and an injustice that other nations will not moderate their infra buying in order to usher in a more egalitarian age.

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Infra purchase and nation ranking don't really go together. Most of the problem with it being impossible to go up through the ranks is tech.

2. I have concluded that nominal financial aid, in the term of $2.5 million from every nation larger than me, would enable me to purchase this wonder without incurring any debt of my own

So, you're 40th in the rankings (40×2.5m is the 100m that you need), and therefore don't need a MP at all :)

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It wouldn't completely eradicate the infra problem but if we were allowed to send an MP as an aid transaction, it would certainly help those with infra obsession to atone for their sins and, while it wouldn't exactly level the playing field, it would be an incentive for newer nations to stay in CN.

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So, you're 40th in the rankings (40×2.5m is the 100m that you need), and therefore don't need a MP at all :)

What we should learn from this quote is that I cannot do math. In fact I have no clue at all what I was thinking when I came up with that 2.5 million number, but I do remember it making some sense at the time. As I'm ranked 17000 or so, that makes the reparations roughly six thousand dollars per nation. But if you're going to send aid, I could do with more anyway :)

:mad: This is typical growth-elitist attitude, but at least you are honest enough to admit that you are thinking it, unlike the others who parade around this thread in denial!

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What we should learn from this quote is that I cannot do math. In fact I have no clue at all what I was thinking when I came up with that 2.5 million number, but I do remember it making some sense at the time. As I'm ranked 17000 or so, that makes the reparations roughly six thousand dollars per nation. But if you're going to send aid, I could do with more anyway :)

:mad: This is typical growth-elitist attitude, but at least you are honest enough to admit that you are thinking it, unlike the others who parade around this thread in denial!

Clearly, with my huge nation, I am only interested in defending the interests of similarly sized nations for my own selfish gain. Bwahahaha.

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If it makes you feel any better, I haven't sledded in a month now.

Keep up the good work brah. I perceive that you're very close to enlightenment.

I think we should all ask ourselves, "What would Socrates do in this situation?" Socrates is a good figure to appeal to because he does not have the heavily weighted emotional connotations of a religious leader, but he is still widely respected. And it was Socrates who said, "In the pursuit of personal property, we must be first mindful of the public good. If ever a person elevates his own interest above that of the polis, his attitude puts him at odds with everything the polis stands for." So basically what I'm saying is think of me and send me some cash once my aid slots empty out :)

Edit: I did that wrong. What I meant to say was, think of the masses, you greedy slob, and be generous with your cash so that I don't have to compare you to Ebenezer Scrooge and send ghosts to haunt your bedroom! (I realize such a thing could be construed as OOC retribution for IC acts, but quite frankly if that's what it takes then that's what it takes.)

Edited by TheNakedJimbo
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I sympathise with your desire to acquire nuclear status, but from my stand point these restrictions on other nations acquiring nuclear weapons are extremely useful -- I am whole-heartedly glad that they are elitist in nature. If there were no restrictions in place than any nation (new or old) could easily purchase a few nukes and fire them off without thought for consequences. Rogue nations could appear from obscurity at a moment's notice to fire off nukes 'just for the hell of it' and then collapse a few weeks later.

No, sir, I am very glad that there are restrictions on the acquiring of nuclear weapons -- it saves my nation and its people much grief and heart-ache.

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No, sir, I am very glad that there are restrictions on the acquiring of nuclear weapons -- it saves my nation and its people much grief and heart-ache.

You are glad that other people suffer because it is convenient for you - just as I thought!

I think this thread has served to illuminate how many people really do have that opinion, and are merely too blind or too cowardly to admit it in public. There are a few who have been quite brazen about it, such as Vladimir a few posts back. While I think it is silly to brag about one's backward self-centeredness and wanton disregard for fellow man, I have to say that at least those people are farther along the path to healing, because they are the ones willing to admit that they experience the attitude I have been talking about.

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I think the real problem is that you can only declare war on nations 75% below your nation strength. These artificial limits need to be done away with. That way us larger nations could continually nuke smaller nations as they are created, making it so that there is a small class of ultra elite nations while everyone else is at ZI.

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Dear Vlad, I'm afraid you are committing a logical fallacy known as a false dilemma. There is a third option you are not aware of. You can buy a ton of nukes, sell all your tech and infra to get as low as you can go, and then nuke lowbies all you want to.

I would recommend, though, using those nukes on other high-infra nations instead, to create infrastructure parity across the board and level the artificially-tilted playing field.

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That would defeat the whole purpose of me nuking smaller nations. I want to exploit these third world countries for the benefit of my wealthy and technologically advanced first world nation. Why would I want to revert back an ancient time when my nation was full of savages?

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