Pingu Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 That's cool that you're sticking up for ODN, as allies should and all. But I mean all R&R did was cancel a treaty which, honestly, has had stress fractures from back when I was there over a year ago. You can chastise them all you want for hurting poor ODN's feelings or what have you, but it won't change anything. The logs that have been seen are obviously not faked, so that's not false accusations. And the rest that contributed to the cancellation is all just doubt and trust issues. Poor ODN's feelings are not hurt. We understand R&R's decision, and how they reached it, and accept it even if we don't share their conclusions. It's just politics. As is most of this discussion - although it appears to be politics among states and alliances other than those directly involved. Levels of boredom on Bob are high, it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 just how has R&R held their cards close to their chest and played them at the same time? By blaming the loss of relations on ODN and their supposed manipulation, but not actually providing any evidence of such manipulation. Boo hoo wah wah, we cancelled a treaty because we felt it was in our best interest Some friendship that must have been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkO Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 By blaming the loss of relations on ODN and their supposed manipulation, but not actually providing any evidence of such manipulation. they posted some logs bob :/ anyway, best of luck to both alliances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 they posted some logs bob :/ anyway, best of luck to both alliances That show no level of manipulation at all. They show a mistake was made, but hardly any level of manipulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 they posted some logs bob :/ Are you referring to the logs of a chat with Proximus released by Gofastleft earlier in the thread? Because if so, I already responded to the idea that that was responsible for the cancellation (it would be ridiculous as it was nothing more than a misunderstanding by Proximus), and furthermore it was explicitly stated on this very page by cmf0203 that "this treaty wasn't cancelled soley because of Proximus, or the logs you have seen between Joracy/Arsenal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) That show no level of manipulation at all. They show a mistake was made, but hardly any level of manipulation. Now I don't want to speak for R&R, but the ODN has made several mistakes in the past, of which the logs that now got public was possibly the straw that broke the camels back. Those defending the ODN apparently have no clue about this past, and I would advise them to talk to R&R before running into this thread again. Edited December 21, 2009 by Tromp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Style #386 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Now I don't want to speak for R&R, but the ODN has made several mistakes in the past, of which the logs that now got public was possibly the straw that broke the camels back.Those defending the ODN apparently have no clue about this past, and I would advise them to talk to R&R before running into this thread again. Indeed. Both R&R and ODN are available for comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Indeed. Both R&R and ODN are available for comment. So, apparently, are the rest of Planet Bob. However, R&R and ODN can offer informed comment. And cake, probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattski133 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Am I the only one saying yes to an Orange Civil War? dibs on Arrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmf0203 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 So, apparently, are the rest of Planet Bob. However, R&R and ODN can offer informed comment. And cake, probably. It just wouldn't be right without some orange caek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmf0203 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Are you referring to the logs of a chat with Proximus released by Gofastleft earlier in the thread? Because if so, I already responded to the idea that that was responsible for the cancellation (it would be ridiculous as it was nothing more than a misunderstanding by Proximus), and furthermore it was explicitly stated on this very page by cmf0203 that "this treaty wasn't cancelled soley because of Proximus, or the logs you have seen between Joracy/Arsenal". Thank you, Mr. Janova for actually taking the time to atleast see that I posted something about the cancellation not being related to those incidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoFreaky Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 <3 Dippy And Ego, you're absolutely right. The love is still there. I'm pleased I'm not the only one who feels that way, on both sides... And yeah, I'm pretty much on both sides when it comes to ODN/R&R love Also, Prox smells You're not the only one and people like you will alway be there to make sure ODN and R&R will never be far apart even if it looks like it on paper. Santa says no I'm afraid. Seriously, some cancellations and disagreements and everyone thinks theres an orange civil war coming Only orange war there's going to be is us rolling The International because of my discussions with Craig and Geli but after that everything will be quiet again on orange I'm very well aware of what it feels like to be "gently" pressured and manipulated, but you don't get to hold your cards close to your chest and play them at the same time. That's never worked before and it won't work now. You're accusing ODN of pretty bad activity, so you're going to get some heat from ODN's allies... well MK.Don't make demands that we read between the lines. I'm not in the mood or train of thought to have my imagination condemn an ally. Sure that's your right and personlly I think it's good you stand up for your allies. But, people around here are stating things on some logs that we didn't provide and never used as THE reason to cancel. And frankly, I think ODN is taking this alot better then people that aren't involved in this. So let's break this down to the most simple reason there is here: "ODN and R&R are not on the same wavelength", "there are some communication issues", "we don't see eye to eye" etc. Until this is restored (something we both will have to work on) we didn't think having an MDP was the best idea. Like a few people already said, better to cancel now then to cancel on the eve of war. Now we wouldn't cancel on the eve of war so make that better to cancel now then to get in a war that is not ours and we do not support. But then again.. posting this is kinda pointless cause most people this is directed at don't wanna see the truth anyway, you made up your mind already, we were butthurt and canceled... Meh if you want to think that that's fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thizzland Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Only orange war there's going to be is us rolling The International because of my discussions with Craig and Geli but after that everything will be quiet again on orange Whatever, we'll have more nukes by the time you can produce a DoW. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Now I don't want to speak for R&R, but the ODN has made several mistakes in the past, of which the logs that now got public was possibly the straw that broke the camels back.Those defending the ODN apparently have no clue about this past, and I would advise them to talk to R&R before running into this thread again. From what I gather, this is pretty much the situation here. I don't believe these logs were ODN's only transgression - indeed, they seem to merely be an obvious symptom of the deterioration of relations between the two alliances, to the point where ODN perhaps sees R&R as a 'pawn' that they can manipulate, and not as a strong partner and ally. When relations deteriorate to that point, you cannot blame either of the parties for dropping the treaty. It simply becomes untenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Orange civil waarrrr And green will forever be united and hell will freeze over before the Ordinance is broken. The circle is now complete. Edited December 21, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jgoods45 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sad to see. Best wishes to our good friends and allies in the ODN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkahoolik Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 But then again.. posting this is kinda pointless cause most people this is directed at don't wanna see the truth anyway, you made up your mind already, we were butthurt and canceled... Meh if you want to think that that's fine you forgot the part where they are all too willing to say what actually happened between those involved because they have better information than those that took the decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 to the point where ODN perhaps sees R&R as a 'pawn' that they can manipulate, and not as a strong partner and ally. No. Just no. Even with the 'perhaps', this is just flat out wrong. But, see above post by EgoFreaky, and my last couple - I don't expect lack of actual knowledge or understanding to encourage anyone to refrain from comment, however desirable such a thing might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 This thread is still going? What ever the actual reason and/or motivation for this cancellation, ODN and RnR deserve a round of applause. In the universally despised morass that is the treaty web, the most troublesome, most often violated, and most stagnating treaties are those that extend between political blocs. With ODN aiming to be a de facto member of CnG, and R&R already being a member of two other blocs (LEO1, SF), this cancellation serves to free people up to move, and will hopefully contribute to a more invigorating game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civiclove Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sad to see this one come in.. next time use this artical guys.. Article IV: Termination If either signatory violates any of the above articles or wishes to remove itself from the treaty, both alliances shall discuss in private and pay reps 10 million to all planet BOB nation and be given a 7200 day notice before officially terminating the treaty. best luck to you guys RnR and ODN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finster Baby Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 This thread is still going?What ever the actual reason and/or motivation for this cancellation, ODN and RnR deserve a round of applause. In the universally despised morass that is the treaty web, the most troublesome, most often violated, and most stagnating treaties are those that extend between political blocs. With ODN aiming to be a de facto member of CnG, and R&R already being a member of two other blocs (LEO1, SF), this cancellation serves to free people up to move, and will hopefully contribute to a more invigorating game. I'm with you here my friend. To quote a fairly famous comedian: "I give him enough MSG kill elephant - you still keep going!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdcchn Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) I'm with you here my friend.To quote a fairly famous comedian: "I give him enough MSG kill elephant - you still keep going!" lol, best wishes R&R (not "RnR") Edited December 21, 2009 by dvdcchn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 The thing I find most amazing about this thread is that R&R didn't post any of their reasons for canceling the treaty, other people then came in posting logs, and R&R is now being blamed for those logs not being strong enough to justify a treaty cancellation despite specifically stating that they had other reasons. It's really quite hilarious when you get right down to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkerNinja Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 The thing I find most amazing about this thread is that R&R didn't post any of their reasons for canceling the treaty, other people then came in posting logs, and R&R is now being blamed for those logs not being strong enough to justify a treaty cancellation despite specifically stating that they had other reasons.It's really quite hilarious when you get right down to it. You and your rational observations... faugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gofastleft Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Typical Delta, mixing facts into a good argument. I kinda enjoyed throwing some fuel on the fire and then sitting back and watching the lemmings swarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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