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The Citrust Express has left the Station


cmf0203

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That's cool that you're sticking up for ODN, as allies should and all. But I mean all R&R did was cancel a treaty which, honestly, has had stress fractures from back when I was there over a year ago. You can chastise them all you want for hurting poor ODN's feelings or what have you, but it won't change anything. The logs that have been seen are obviously not faked, so that's not false accusations. And the rest that contributed to the cancellation is all just doubt and trust issues.

Poor ODN's feelings are not hurt. We understand R&R's decision, and how they reached it, and accept it even if we don't share their conclusions. It's just politics. As is most of this discussion - although it appears to be politics among states and alliances other than those directly involved. Levels of boredom on Bob are high, it seems.

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just how has R&R held their cards close to their chest and played them at the same time?

By blaming the loss of relations on ODN and their supposed manipulation, but not actually providing any evidence of such manipulation.

Boo hoo wah wah, we cancelled a treaty because we felt it was in our best interest

Some friendship that must have been ;)

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they posted some logs bob :/

Are you referring to the logs of a chat with Proximus released by Gofastleft earlier in the thread? Because if so, I already responded to the idea that that was responsible for the cancellation (it would be ridiculous as it was nothing more than a misunderstanding by Proximus), and furthermore it was explicitly stated on this very page by cmf0203 that "this treaty wasn't cancelled soley because of Proximus, or the logs you have seen between Joracy/Arsenal".

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That show no level of manipulation at all. They show a mistake was made, but hardly any level of manipulation.

Now I don't want to speak for R&R, but the ODN has made several mistakes in the past, of which the logs that now got public was possibly the straw that broke the camels back.

Those defending the ODN apparently have no clue about this past, and I would advise them to talk to R&R before running into this thread again.

Edited by Tromp
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Now I don't want to speak for R&R, but the ODN has made several mistakes in the past, of which the logs that now got public was possibly the straw that broke the camels back.

Those defending the ODN apparently have no clue about this past, and I would advise them to talk to R&R before running into this thread again.

Indeed. Both R&R and ODN are available for comment.

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Are you referring to the logs of a chat with Proximus released by Gofastleft earlier in the thread? Because if so, I already responded to the idea that that was responsible for the cancellation (it would be ridiculous as it was nothing more than a misunderstanding by Proximus), and furthermore it was explicitly stated on this very page by cmf0203 that "this treaty wasn't cancelled soley because of Proximus, or the logs you have seen between Joracy/Arsenal".

Thank you, Mr. Janova for actually taking the time to atleast see that I posted something about the cancellation not being related to those incidents.

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<3 Dippy :)

And Ego, you're absolutely right. The love is still there. I'm pleased I'm not the only one who feels that way, on both sides... And yeah, I'm pretty much on both sides when it comes to ODN/R&R love :wub:

Also, Prox smells :P

You're not the only one ;) and people like you will alway be there to make sure ODN and R&R will never be far apart even if it looks like it on paper.

Santa says no I'm afraid.

Seriously, some cancellations and disagreements and everyone thinks theres an orange civil war coming :)

Only orange war there's going to be is us rolling The International because of my discussions with Craig and Geli but after that everything will be quiet again on orange :P

I'm very well aware of what it feels like to be "gently" pressured and manipulated, but you don't get to hold your cards close to your chest and play them at the same time. That's never worked before and it won't work now. You're accusing ODN of pretty bad activity, so you're going to get some heat from ODN's allies... well MK.

Don't make demands that we read between the lines. I'm not in the mood or train of thought to have my imagination condemn an ally.

Sure that's your right and personlly I think it's good you stand up for your allies.

But, people around here are stating things on some logs that we didn't provide and never used as THE reason to cancel. And frankly, I think ODN is taking this alot better then people that aren't involved in this. So let's break this down to the most simple reason there is here:

"ODN and R&R are not on the same wavelength", "there are some communication issues", "we don't see eye to eye" etc. Until this is restored (something we both will have to work on) we didn't think having an MDP was the best idea. Like a few people already said, better to cancel now then to cancel on the eve of war. Now we wouldn't cancel on the eve of war so make that better to cancel now then to get in a war that is not ours and we do not support.

But then again.. posting this is kinda pointless cause most people this is directed at don't wanna see the truth anyway, you made up your mind already, we were butthurt and canceled... Meh if you want to think that that's fine :)

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Now I don't want to speak for R&R, but the ODN has made several mistakes in the past, of which the logs that now got public was possibly the straw that broke the camels back.

Those defending the ODN apparently have no clue about this past, and I would advise them to talk to R&R before running into this thread again.

From what I gather, this is pretty much the situation here. I don't believe these logs were ODN's only transgression - indeed, they seem to merely be an obvious symptom of the deterioration of relations between the two alliances, to the point where ODN perhaps sees R&R as a 'pawn' that they can manipulate, and not as a strong partner and ally. When relations deteriorate to that point, you cannot blame either of the parties for dropping the treaty. It simply becomes untenable.

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But then again.. posting this is kinda pointless cause most people this is directed at don't wanna see the truth anyway, you made up your mind already, we were butthurt and canceled... Meh if you want to think that that's fine :)

you forgot the part where they are all too willing to say what actually happened between those involved because they have better information than those that took the decisions :P

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to the point where ODN perhaps sees R&R as a 'pawn' that they can manipulate, and not as a strong partner and ally.

No. Just no. Even with the 'perhaps', this is just flat out wrong.

But, see above post by EgoFreaky, and my last couple - I don't expect lack of actual knowledge or understanding to encourage anyone to refrain from comment, however desirable such a thing might be.

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This thread is still going?

What ever the actual reason and/or motivation for this cancellation, ODN and RnR deserve a round of applause. In the universally despised morass that is the treaty web, the most troublesome, most often violated, and most stagnating treaties are those that extend between political blocs. With ODN aiming to be a de facto member of CnG, and R&R already being a member of two other blocs (LEO1, SF), this cancellation serves to free people up to move, and will hopefully contribute to a more invigorating game.

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Sad to see this one come in..

next time use this artical guys..

Article IV: Termination

If either signatory violates any of the above articles or wishes to remove itself from the treaty, both alliances shall discuss in private and pay reps 10 million to all planet BOB nation and be given a 7200 day notice before officially terminating the treaty.

best luck to you guys RnR and ODN

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This thread is still going?

What ever the actual reason and/or motivation for this cancellation, ODN and RnR deserve a round of applause. In the universally despised morass that is the treaty web, the most troublesome, most often violated, and most stagnating treaties are those that extend between political blocs. With ODN aiming to be a de facto member of CnG, and R&R already being a member of two other blocs (LEO1, SF), this cancellation serves to free people up to move, and will hopefully contribute to a more invigorating game.

I'm with you here my friend.

To quote a fairly famous comedian:

"I give him enough MSG kill elephant - you still keep going!"

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The thing I find most amazing about this thread is that R&R didn't post any of their reasons for canceling the treaty, other people then came in posting logs, and R&R is now being blamed for those logs not being strong enough to justify a treaty cancellation despite specifically stating that they had other reasons.

It's really quite hilarious when you get right down to it.

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The thing I find most amazing about this thread is that R&R didn't post any of their reasons for canceling the treaty, other people then came in posting logs, and R&R is now being blamed for those logs not being strong enough to justify a treaty cancellation despite specifically stating that they had other reasons.

It's really quite hilarious when you get right down to it.

You and your rational observations... faugh!

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