Ask questions about teh lolcommies

[Kiss Goodbye]

Craig, would you mind tackling my question as well, since you're in the mood for hardballs? Some of your alliance mates have noted there would be heated debate, but I'm genuinely interested in learning if it's a question you have already considered.

While you're at it, here's a few more:

Do you see the orange sphere as having truly splintered? If so, in the event of a war would you ever take up arms against another orange alliance? Which ones?

Are you planning on adding TGE to the League of Extraordinary Oranges, now that they've moved to the sphere?

[Comrade Craig]

In all fairness Craig (and you know I like you so don't take this personal) the whole thing of CPCN taking LSF as a protectorate while we were still at war with them was a low blow. Yes we didn't have the power to sustain much of a war against them at that point but as you already said, your alliance did not fight for their freedom. You simply swept in and claimed the prize for yourself. I doubt very many people even remember it enough to make it a substantial faux pas, but it did occur and it was less than gentlemanly. So while you may not have done much of the actual fighting of NoV, but your alliance certainly got their kicks in while they could. I don't entirely blame you for that though. It seemed at the time that everyone took their turn.

I don't quite understand your position. Was the world supposed to sit by and wait for you to rebuild so that you could start fighting again? Planet Bob doesn't have a pause button, and the LSF had a right to move on and pursue a foreign policy.

Here is how I see it. A state of war between NoV and the LSF did not bestow upon you some automatic sovereignty over them. You do not gain ownership over an alliance by declaring on them. By the time the LSF became a CPCN protectorate, that war was essentially over, whether or not you chose to recognize it. We had every moral right to step in and help clean up after it ended. Your refusal to grant a fair peace did not invalidate the CPCN's actions. On the contrary, it is precisely what justified it.

-Craig

[Comrade Craig]

Craig, would you mind tackling my question as well, since you're in the mood for hardballs? Some of your alliance mates have noted there would be heated debate, but I'm genuinely interested in learning if it's a question you have already considered.

Of course!

Do you see the orange sphere as having truly splintered? If so, in the event of a war would you ever take up arms against another orange alliance? Which ones?

I'm not too sure that it was ever fully united. Our exit from Orange Unity was a reflection of its failure to provide us with the economic benefits that are its primary reason for existence. It had essentially become a sphere-wide NAP (yes, I realize it is technically an ODP) masquerading as a economic bloc. INT has no desire for enemies on orange. We have good relations with many, and nonexistent relations with the rest. If individual alliances wish to pursue treaties with us, we'd love to talk. But the bloc-wide model simply didn't work for us.

edit: In case I wasn't absolutely clear, I would view war within orange to be an utter failure of civility and diplomacy.

Are you planning on adding TGE to the League of Extraordinary Oranges, now that they've moved to the sphere?

All orange alliances are free to approach the bloc to discuss possible admittance. I have no special authority to speak for LEO. Admittance requires unanimous support from all member alliances.

-Craig

Edited December 18, 2009 by Comrade Craig

[The Mongol-Swedes]

Hello, dear Lolcommies. I'm happy to see INT building itself up as a very successful alliance given the history of many democratically run alliances over the years. Salut, mia compañeros.

I have a couple of questions. Feel free to answer in any order.

Firstly, I'm curious to know if the International still pursues an assertive policy of Leftism in One Alliance. Obviously this does not really affect the LSF, given the unique character and spirit of our eternal MDoAP, and I had been around with old comrade Gelibolu to write much of the ideological and scientific analysis that went into what had been an INT policy at the time of founding. I am curious to know if the International still carries it out to any degree.

Secondly, given the curious activity of the Orange sphere as of late, does the International see itself poised to act as a mediating power, or should I hurry up and buy my SDI?

Side-Bar: For the dudes looking for NoR-Leftist drama, that's over and done with, really. We'renot rushing out to bury the hatchet, but there's hardly any bloodlust going on anymore. Pretty much what Comrade Craig said.

[Captain Flinders]

If I may poke and prod you a bit more on this, what exactly is this idealogy?

It's always hard to nail down an ideology but ours encompasses aspects of a monarchy's rule via appointed rulers with a high volume of nationalistic pride, individual advancement, and general warlike excitement. I don't know if it constitutes an ideology exactly but close enough.

What does Nordreich stand for? In some ways it mirrors RL german fascist organizations. In other ways it does not.

I think many within Nordreich would agree that we are fascist leaning. Of course we have democratic practices as well but if you had to compare it to a RL entity I suppose that could be close. Of course minus the inclination towards xenophobia.

I think the gentlemanly thing would have been to have never subjected the LSF to eternal war in the first place.

The reasons that war went on as long as it did were lay with LSF as much as they did NoV.

and the LSF had a right to move on and pursue a foreign policy.

Debatable. I suppose most of the crimes they committed were forgotten over time. That certainly is one downside of such a prolonged war.

We had every moral right to step in and help clean up after it ended. Your refusal to grant a fair peace did not invalidate the CPCN's actions. On the contrary, it is precisely what justified it.

I'm not trying to discuss morals for I don't think they factored into the equation at the time. I was simply giving an example of how CPCN got their punches in on NoV in a more indirect fashion.

[SilentFury]

Where did you guys find this Craig character from lol?

Sup Int<3 Craig

[zimmerwald1915]

Firstly, I'm curious to know if the International still pursues an assertive policy of Leftism in One Alliance. Obviously this does not really affect the LSF, given the unique character and spirit of our eternal MDoAP, and I had been around with old comrade Gelibolu to write much of the ideological and scientific analysis that went into what had been an INT policy at the time of founding. I am curious to know if the International still carries it out to any degree.

We'd like there to be as few left alliances as possible, really, if only because having a lot of smaller alliances floating around complicates things.

Secondly, given the curious activity of the Orange sphere as of late, does the International see itself poised to act as a mediating power, or should I hurry up and buy my SDI?

Were we alone, I'd very much advise buying your SDI. Even if it weren't, buying an SDI couldn't be a bad idea, unless of course you spent your warchest on it. However, I do see LEO as a whole as a centripetal force in the Orange sphere, counteracting some distressing centrifugal tendencies.

Side-Bar: For the dudes looking for NoR-Leftist drama, that's over and done with, really. We'renot rushing out to bury the hatchet, but there's hardly any bloodlust going on anymore. Pretty much what Comrade Craig said.

It's good to have IC rivals. Making makeshift ones out of ones allies doesn't really cut it in terms of emotional impact.

The reasons that war went on as long as it did were lay with LSF as much as they did NoV.

NoV's peace terms included disbandment of the alliance. LSF had some slight disagreement on that point. I rather think that refusing a peace term that, frankly, NoV and its allies couldn't enforce was something LSF did correctly. But that's just me.

I'm not trying to discuss morals for I don't think they factored into the equation at the time. I was simply giving an example of how CPCN got their punches in on NoV in a more indirect fashion.

NoV outgunned CPCN both in terms of NS and other game-measurements, and in terms of diplomatic support, the latter up til the very end. I don't particularly see how it would have been more sensible for CPCN to go charging headlong into the fray alone, particularly when it was rather newer than LSF and consequently lacking its deep roots, and when the penalty for engaging NoV's coalition militarily and losing was so evidently high.

[Comrade Craig]

Firstly, I'm curious to know if the International still pursues an assertive policy of Leftism in One Alliance. Obviously this does not really affect the LSF, given the unique character and spirit of our eternal MDoAP, and I had been around with old comrade Gelibolu to write much of the ideological and scientific analysis that went into what had been an INT policy at the time of founding. I am curious to know if the International still carries it out to any degree.

It's difficult to speak definitively for an alliance that takes its direction from the will of the masses; a sentiment with which I'm sure you can relate. However, with reasonable certainty I can state that there is strength in unity, and people who reject this notion suffer accordingly. The glory and fame of being king in a micro-alliance does not mitigate the pain of a curb-stomping. This is a lesson that most of my comrades in INT learned the hard way. I guess that if one's only goal is to feel like a big fish, and one has no concern for the well-being of the little fish who follow, then unity is irrelevant.

Secondly, given the curious activity of the Orange sphere as of late, does the International see itself poised to act as a mediating power, or should I hurry up and buy my SDI?

You don't have an SDI? And you're announcing it in public?

Side-Bar: For the dudes looking for NoR-Leftist drama, that's over and done with, really. We'renot rushing out to bury the hatchet, but there's hardly any bloodlust going on anymore. Pretty much what Comrade Craig said.

I wholeheartedly agree with you agreeing with me.

-Craig

Edited December 18, 2009 by Comrade Craig

[Cataduanes]

Also, Cata: How doesn't it get any clearer than this? Quit using the same retort over and over again you supported the move accept it.

Seems Craig has this covered , but yeah since when did a ''declaration of support'' constitute a direct hand in the Verein's demise? you are clutching at straws if you believe that to be the case my friend. Fact is the commies had little to do with the Verein's final demise, christ i wish we had but we didn't...and as hard as it is to believe that old rivalry has dissipated somewhat even with Nordreich's return, curiously enough it seems both crews have bigger issues to tackle in the present.

As for my post you quoted are you taking issue with my goodself feeling pissed at Norden Verein in 2008 for the ICP reformation? well please forgive me for feeling pissed at being stomped in a war that had one of the worst CB's ever uttered in this forum.

EDIT: Also I really dig your Sonic avvy by the way

I am quite flattered that you give us credit for Norden Verein's demise, but your facts are a little shaky. That war predates the existence of INT. I admit that I penned the statement of support to which you linked, but I did it as a member of the now defunct Communist Party. Despite that announcement, the CPCN had almost no role in the conflict. I do not recall ever engaging any NoV targets. At most, the Party fought back a halfhearted counterattack by a latecomer to the fray. As a former member of the LSF, I was happy to see the defeat of Norden Verein, just as they cheered their (short-lived) military victories over my fallen comrades. In that sense, the end of Norden Verein was the karma to which you refer. I'd like to think that cycle is over.

-Craig

Craig hits the nail on the head once again B)

Edited December 18, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Captain Flinders]

NoV's peace terms included disbandment of the alliance. LSF had some slight disagreement on that point. I rather think that refusing a peace term that, frankly, NoV and its allies couldn't enforce was something LSF did correctly. But that's just me.

The peace terms changed multiple times throughout the encounter. And again, the reasons for the many changes and the length of the war rest with both NoV and LSF.

NoV outgunned CPCN both in terms of NS and other game-measurements, and in terms of diplomatic support, the latter up til the very end. I don't particularly see how it would have been more sensible for CPCN to go charging headlong into the fray alone

Ugh, why is this point not getting through? I'm not saying they should have attacked, I was refuting the claim that they did nothing or little to damage NoV during that war. They took their shots in their own way. That's all I was saying.

[Comrade Craig]

Ugh, why is this point not getting through? I'm not saying they should have attacked, I was refuting the claim that they did nothing or little to damage NoV during that war. They took their shots in their own way. That's all I was saying.

I get your point. I just don't think it is a valid comparison. CPCN "took their shots" in a diplomatic, nonviolent way, while NoV "took [its] shots" by, well... by taking shots. Surely you understand the difference between words and cruise missiles.

-Craig

edit: also, see quote in sig. It's somewhat relevant

Edited December 18, 2009 by Comrade Craig

[Tom Litler]

You chose to protect an alliance at war with the Norden Verein in their moment of weakness. By extension, you used coercion under threat of military action to spite NoV while you had the upper hand (or more accurately, while they were down).

Not only is that more than "just words", it is devoid of class.

[Comrade Craig]

You chose to protect an alliance at war with the Norden Verein in their moment of weakness. By extension, you used coercion under threat of military action to spite NoV while you had the upper hand (or more accurately, while they were down).

Not only is that more than "just words", it is devoid of class.

Let me get this straight. Tom Litler is going on the record as saying that it is unethical to use force (or the threat of force) against an alliance that is unable to properly defend itself? Tommy, do you have a mirror nearby? Because you might want to take hard look into it.

Now run along and let the big boys talk.

-Craig

Edited December 18, 2009 by Comrade Craig

[Stonewall14]

Do images like this piss you off?

(OOC)Are you a real commie IRL? And if so who are your commie heroes? Have you ever lived or been to a communist run country(OOC)

Edited December 19, 2009 by Stonewall14

[Captain Flinders]

I get your point. I just don't think it is a valid comparison. CPCN "took their shots" in a diplomatic, nonviolent way, while NoV "took [its] shots" by, well... by taking shots. Surely you understand the difference between words and cruise missiles.

I'm not really making a comparison, more of an observation. I completely understand your reasoning for doing what you did. It was a good move and had the roles been reversed, I would have likely done the same. Everyone knows that NoR/NoV are a proud bunch and you hit us where it hurt the most. I applaud the strategic mind capable of doing such a thing while recognizing it for the shot it was.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Captain Flinders

[The AUT]

Let me get this straight. Tom Litler is going on the record as saying that it is unethical to use force (or the threat of force) against an alliance that is unable to properly defend itself? Tommy, do you have a mirror nearby? Because you might want to take hard look into it.

Now run along and let the big boys talk.

-Craig

Now here's a question.

The International, do you think a leader lashing out like this to someone's opinions is acceptable? Craig I guess you can answer this too.

[astronaut jones]

You chose to protect an alliance at war with the Norden Verein in their moment of weakness. By extension, you used coercion under threat of military action to spite NoV while you had the upper hand (or more accurately, while they were down).

Not only is that more than "just words", it is devoid of class.

Just like NoV and Nordreich are completely devoid of class.

So, let's call it a wash and move on, you very much un-classy fellow! rahhhhh!

[Comrade Craig]

Now here's a question.

The International, do you think a leader lashing out like this to someone's opinions is acceptable? Craig I guess you can answer this too.

I personally found it to be a very civil answer to an uncivilized, petulant tr... tr... The word I'm looking for is on the tip of my tongue, but I just can't spit it out.

At any rate, I'll pass on this question and let my good friend Zimmerwald pick it up.

-Craig

[zimmerwald1915]

Do images like this piss you off?

Only because that's more a wartime poster, whereas NoR and INT are at peace. It is not very appropriate given the world context.

Also, did you make that yourself? It's visually striking.

Are you a real commie IRL? And if so who are your commie heroes? Have you ever lived or been to a communist run country?

I rather wonder why we're getting so many OOC questions in an IC forum.

The International, do you think a leader lashing out like this to someone's opinions is acceptable? Craig I guess you can answer this too.

Tom Litler takes rather a lot of pleasure in trolling The International. Sometimes it becomes rather much, and our members retaliate against his hard words with hard words of our own. I've certainly done so. He, being a troll, enjoys it. So do we.

It's all in good fun.

[Tromp]

Are you a real commie IRL? And if so who are your commie heroes? Have you ever lived or been to a communist run country?

Let's keep it IC please.

[Thizzland]

Glad to see you Nordreich fellas have not lost your swag.

For the record, we fully endorse the actions of our beloved CC.

[Stonewall14]

Only because that's more a wartime poster, whereas NoR and INT are at peace. It is not very appropriate given the world context.

Also, did you make that yourself? It's visually striking.

I rather wonder why we're getting so many OOC questions in an IC forum.

Tom Litler takes rather a lot of pleasure in trolling The International. Sometimes it becomes rather much, and our members retaliate against his hard words with hard words of our own. I've certainly done so. He, being a troll, enjoys it. So do we.

It's all in good fun.

(OOC)Actually Tom Litler made it... (OOC)..What do you think the outcome of a head to head battle between the commie pinkos in int and Nordreich would be? I'm thinking the same result as illustrated in Tom's image... No allies or treaty webs involved...

Edited December 19, 2009 by Stonewall14

[Tom Litler]

Now what is this talk of me being uncivilized? Could Comrade Craig, who'd implicated me, please point out where and how I have acted with anything less than coherence and politesse, lest his accusations be unfounded.

Furthermore, he seems to imply that I'm hypocritical for pointing out the obvious fact of the International taking advantage of an opportune moment to strike back at a longtime enemy. Again, I implore him to show me the hypocrisy in my remarks. When have I ever taken advantage of anyone's misfortune to satisfy a craving for vengeance?

And thank you, zimmerwald. I'm happy for your appreciation of my artwork.

[zimmerwald1915]

What do you think the outcome of a head to head battle between the commie pinkos in int and Nordreich would be? I'm thinking the same result as illustrated in Tom's image... No allies or treaty webs involved...

Totally one on one? We'd do well in the midrange for a while, but our upper tier would probably get hit very hard, and NoR's numbers would tell in the lower end. However, we deal not with hypotheticals, but with the Robertian reality, where allies and treaty webs are very much involved.

Furthermore, he seems to imply that I'm hypocritical for pointing out the obvious fact of the International taking advantage of an opportune moment to strike back at a longtime enemy.

Please do not confuse The International with the Communist Party of CyberNations. They are two different alliances, and I'm pretty sure Baron Terror, 360mta, Werner, Thizzland, Frost, and Seixas would be rather offended at any suggestion otherwise.

Edited December 19, 2009 by zimmerwald1915

[Tomcat]

(OOC)Are you a real commie IRL? And if so who are your commie heroes? Have you ever lived or been to a communist run country(OOC)

(OOC) What does the number "14" in your username stand for?(/OOC)