Most Important Treaty of All Time

[Sarmatian Empire]

WUT hands down

[Triyun]

Maybe I am bias, but I think its pretty much undisputable that the NPO had the longest reign on the top and thus our treaties tend to be the most important as far as history goes.

I gotta go with Crymson in saying Continuum was more important than the WUT. I think that the WUT and the League served to highlight what the sides were going to be in Great War II for both sides and not a whole lot else. The WUT as I recall was made up of alliances that Dilber had been signing MDPs with for months prior. The Continuum bound together two of the three major power blocs at the time, Pacifica and Citadel. It secured the NPOs place at the top of the game for an unprecedented period of time (16 months was the figure I believe earlier cited). This far outweighed the previous periods of Pacifican dominance (Polar War- GPW) and (GW II- WUT Civil War).

As far as bilateral treaties go, I would say the Ordinance of the Orders was important (indeed I would say a keystone) but it did not change the game as far as CoaLUEtion encirclement of the NPO. The Drinking Buddies (though technically trilateral) was the first step in the NPO going around the old power structure and creating a winning coalition from alliances that weren't major powers in the GPW.

[hizzy]

Too lazy to go back and properly quote but whoever said SF was the anti-continuum is on crack. I don't think there was one person who ever thought "man NPO sure is oppressive, what would I ever do if SF wasn't there to wipe my $@!? I'd be walking around with !@#$-stained underwear all day." I'm 99% sure that thought has never crossed anyone's mind.

The most important treaty of all time is hands down the OoO, and cancelling that was even more retarded than declaring war in the middle of negotiations against the larger part of the treaty web.

[Sterling Shmigadoo]

Given the history of our politics:

the most important treaty of all time = non sequitur

Amirite or amirite?

/chuckles

[WorldConqueror]

I'm going with OoO and the Initiative. The Initiative conquered and claimed the world, Q inherited it, and the Initiative set the stage for everything that has happened since.

[avernite]

For bloc, definately the World Unity Treaty. Sure, it collapsed quick, but time is not the measure of influence; how much it did is. WUT defeated then crushed the League-side, wrecked green, set the stage for FAN's eternal beatdown, and initiated the UjW (and, to some extend, the WoTC).

Sure, it's not all NICE things that WUT did, but it sure impacted. Continuum just sort of kept the status quo except for one time where, as it were, the first shots were fired more from One Vision, and the actual attack was more of a Citadel-SF thing. Continuum, in short, did not have influence as much as it knitted together everyone else's influence. Still important, but compared to the world-changing actions of the Initiative?

As to individual treaty: right now, I would probably agree with OoO, though in some time we may decide one of the other powers-that-are had more of an impact. Possible other candidates for the future are the IRON-NPO MADP, Hearts of IRON (TOP-IRON MDP), whatever the NpO-MK MDP is called...

OoO is reduced by the fact that, for the essential moves between GW1 and its ending, it was superceded by WUT or did less than you might think.

[James Wilson]

Too lazy to go back and properly quote but whoever said SF was the anti-continuum is on crack. I don't think there was one person who ever thought "man NPO sure is oppressive, what would I ever do if SF wasn't there to wipe my $@!? I'd be walking around with !@#$-stained underwear all day." I'm 99% sure that thought has never crossed anyone's mind.

The most important treaty of all time is hands down the OoO, and cancelling that was even more retarded than declaring war in the middle of negotiations against the larger part of the treaty web.

I laughed at this

Although I might be a noob to all of you old folks who've been here for fricken ever, I would say from my research on the subject, WUT did more then Q ever did. Even though Q remained in power for a long period of time, how many legit great wars did it fight in? Just one. tI crushed its opposition but couldn't enjoy its glory. Q just picked up those from tI and proceeded to keep any major opposition force from rising by either getting a treaty with them or crushing them before they gained any power.

Thus, this is my reason for picking WUT as the most important bloc.

I can't say for treaties, honestly.

[Kevanovia]

The four most important would probably be:

Ordinance of Order. It combined New Polar Order and New Pacific Order into one, essentially. It was easily the closest relationship two alliances will ever have. (With ORPLE coming in second )

NAAC - GATO MDP, these guys were the center of the CoLUEtion/League/Aegis. (LUE were also essential in the war blocs as well of course ) For a long time it was NPO vs these guys and it defined CN politics.

World Unity Treaty, darn you Dilber!!! Although I was part of it and it was pretty fun to be apart of, it lead to all these lapdogs NPO would end up having. It helped dull down FA. Because FA just turned into sucking up to the large teams. *barf*

United Green. If I remember correctly, it was the first treaty to unite all major powers on a color sphere. Darn you Green Civil War!!!! Bilrow, I still think that was the biggest BS CB that has ever existed....ever. I know for a fact that two of them were flat out wrong...as in your allegation were false because I was part of both projects. VE wasn't trying to take the black sphere away from GOONS, I was part of the planning. We were just looking for something to do and wanted to create a colony so we could have a reliable ally. We just wanted to have a good time. And the CIS thing was all false. Philosopher is a liar and I'm glad he's out of Alliance Politics. Those falst allegations ruined a lot of friendships. But I guess that's a tale for another time.

Just my two cents.

[Denial]

Nice attempt at revisionism but no.

The IC was created as an attempt to counter the OoO and I got Prodigal to jokingly include NPO. Once there I rewrote the charter and it was put to a vote before ODN could have any input on it. NPO signed and GGA signed, creating the IC without UCS, ODN and LUE, eventhough they were part of the original talks. I had admin access on the boards and was party to and directing of most of the formative discussions. If Atherton or Pope Hope would open them up publicly the interior discussions could be seen by all clearly.

The balance of the alliances involved worked well together for months afterwards, including the GPW, so any supposed pre-existing "internal issues" couldn't have been enough to cause the bloc to disintegrate.

Uhh, that's not what occurred at all. There are so many historical inaccuracies here, I think it may be necessary to create a list of corrections:

1. The Independence Council was formed on May 4th 2006. The New Polar Order (and the ensuing Ordinance of Order) was founded on May 24th 2006. Thus, the Independence Council could not have in any way, shape, or form, been a reaction to the Ordinance of Order.

2. Prodigal Chieftain did not forward the invitation, but Rambo of the Grand Global Alliance.

3. The Charter was never re-written, your attempts fell apart as quickly as they began.

4. LUEnited Nations left the Independence Council due to our reservations regarding GGA and UCS proving to be accurate, as well as the fact that by that time, our United For Orange agreement with the Orange Defense Network was already well under way.

5. The Orange Defense Network departed the bloc for strikingly similar reasons.

6. Your contributions to the forums largely consisted of requesting admin access, coupled with rather lengthy diatribes that were paid little attention.

7. The New Pacific Order was so concerned with the Independence Council's existence, that its knee-jerk reaction of establishing a counter-bloc, the Entente Cordiale, failed spectacularly.

8. Your claim that the "balance of alliances involved worked well together for months afterwards" is indicative of your poor understanding of said alliances and their relations towards one another. LUE and ODN cooperated extensively, yet it was some quite some time before any treaty above an NAP was signed between LUE and GGA again. Not to mention UCS remained relatively unconnected to other ex-IC signatories for its entire existence.

Wait, this is what caused the fall of IC?

Either you're extraordinarily cunning, your enemies really ridiculous, or a combination of both.

Or, more accurately, Ivan's story is entirely mythical with a complete lack of factual accuracy.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Revanche

[Doitzel]

Holy !@#$@#$ nostalgia, Batman!

[WorkingClassRuler]

The random stroke of luck wasn't as random as you might think. Q leaders just came together and realized the game wasn't much fun without some meaningful opposition, so they let SF grow to get that opposition, knowing that they would never get the strength too harm Q.

Superfriends failure to become that opposition to Q, made a lot of people bored even within Q. So some people decided to do something about it and switch sides which made sure there was some serious opposition, which lead up to Karma.

Hmm, while this may have been some Q leader's thoughts, it certainly was not unanimous with the whole bloc or even discussed in Q. I can obviously only speak for MHA but we had/have allies in SF, we genuinely like SF, and certainly would have attempted to prevent any wars between the blocs. The notion that we were simply allowing them to grow into an opposition force fails to consider the serious ties between Q and SF members that existed.

... which leads me into my completely biased and self-indulgent suggestion of Aqua Unity. We had 4 major blocs on our sphere (now 3 without Q) and an on-going gentlemen's agreement against Aqua on Aqua violence that effected many of Q's wanna-be puppeteer's plans. What happened to GPA certainly would not have happened to TDO; what happened to VE never happened to Grämlins. We unfortunately could not muster enough clout (though not from a lack of trying) to save MK from being hit, but Aqua love is a real force in this game.

Though, as I said, I could be highly biased and more than likely over-romanticizing my sphere.

[avernite]

Though, as I said, I could be highly biased and more than likely over-romanticizing my sphere.

Hmm, yeah, I would think there are other reasons for Grämlins not being rolled like VE was. B)

[WorkingClassRuler]

Hmm, yeah, I would think there are other reasons for Grämlins not being rolled like VE was. B)

Heh of course there were But during the drama of the United Jungle Accords, it was Aqua they turned to for support and eventually a new home. And when they left, certain Q leaders dummy-spat their little hearts out to discredit and distance them from the bloc, which was never going to work with MHA still there.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Uhh, that's not what occurred at all. There are so many historical inaccuracies here, I think it may be necessary to create a list of corrections:

1. The Independence Council was formed on May 4th 2006. The New Polar Order (and the ensuing Ordinance of Order) was founded on May 24th 2006. Thus, the Independence Council could not have in any way, shape, or form, been a reaction to the Ordinance of Order.

2. Prodigal Chieftain did not forward the invitation, but Rambo of the Grand Global Alliance.

3. The Charter was never re-written, your attempts fell apart as quickly as they began.

4. LUEnited Nations left the Independence Council due to our reservations regarding GGA and UCS proving to be accurate, as well as the fact that by that time, our United For Orange agreement with the Orange Defense Network was already well under way.

5. The Orange Defense Network departed the bloc for strikingly similar reasons.

6. Your contributions to the forums largely consisted of requesting admin access, coupled with rather lengthy diatribes that were paid little attention.

7. The New Pacific Order was so concerned with the Independence Council's existence, that its knee-jerk reaction of establishing a counter-bloc, the Entente Cordiale, failed spectacularly.

8. Your claim that the "balance of alliances involved worked well together for months afterwards" is indicative of your poor understanding of said alliances and their relations towards one another. LUE and ODN cooperated extensively, yet it was some quite some time before any treaty above an NAP was signed between LUE and GGA again. Not to mention UCS remained relatively unconnected to other ex-IC signatories for its entire existence.

Or, more accurately, Ivan's story is entirely mythical with a complete lack of factual accuracy.

Did it actually take you four days to gather all that or did you purposefully wait until you knew I would be offline to respond? Either way, good job.

First, the overall intents I mentioned are accurate, even if my specifics are incorrect (because I am old, it happened three years ago and I am not ever going to be bothered researching crap like that). The IC was formed to counter NPO then, not OoO. What is the difference? Especially in the early days whatever NPO said was policy for Polar regardless. Rambo may have been the one to push the invitation but PC supported it after the fact, so again, what is the difference?

The charter was rewritten and the GGA and NPO both signed it. ODN and LUE did not and left, thus killing the IC.

You are correct, the Entente Cordiale failed, but so did the IC, for the same reasons, so again, what is the difference?

Bravo on pointing out fairly meaningless semantic issues. The overall effect was the same. NPO direct involvement in IC lead directly to its dissolution by design. That has been a fairly well known and acknowledged item for three years. You claiming otherwise now and then simply using a few clerical errors on my part in an attempt to support it is ridiculous. Not too surprising though.

[Jebbie]

I remember the entente cordiale, it was pretty jokes.

Also yeah from what I remember NPO somehow managed to join the bloc formed to counter them and messed it up from the inside which I found hilarious at the time

[Ivan Moldavi]

I remember the entente cordiale, it was pretty jokes.

Also yeah from what I remember NPO somehow managed to join the bloc formed to counter them and messed it up from the inside which I found hilarious at the time

Exactly.

And yes, I failed miserably with the Cordiale. One of many failures that correspond with some successes.

[Chief Savage Man]

World Unity Treaty was the basis for over two years of NPO domination. Sounds pretty damn important to me.

[Kevanovia]

For bloc, definately the World Unity Treaty. Sure, it collapsed quick, but time is not the measure of influence;

What?! Collapsed quick....are we talking about the same Initiative here?

[Bob Janova]

I think he means, when the end came, it came quickly. From 'WUT is fine, we'll never fall' to UJW was about a week.

[logan1]

i would say OoO because if you look at all the other Blocs that had MDPs with either order the OoO was tied into all the big Blocs 1 way or another.

i didnt colonize bob until the just after the BLEU v NADC war so i cant compare what ive seen to WUT.

[Heft]

I think he means, when the end came, it came quickly. From 'WUT is fine, we'll never fall' to UJW was about a week.

Only if you were blind. The fault lines were clear even to uninvolved parties (say, IRON leadership at the time) as early as June (three months prior to UJW), and there was relatively little pretense being kept up after modgate.

Still, compared with most modern blocs, WUT's rise was comparatively meteoric and its fall correspondingly swift and catastrophic.

[Jeeooh]

WUT. The world has never been the same.

[Denial]

Did it actually take you four days to gather all that or did you purposefully wait until you knew I would be offline to respond? Either way, good job.

Right, because I'm intimately familiar with the designated times that you peruse the Cyber Nations forums. Get over yourself. As for the gaps between my posts in this topic, I have been rather pre-occupied lately (work, purchasing a fine automobile, etc.).

First, the overall intents I mentioned are accurate, even if my specifics are incorrect (because I am old, it happened three years ago and I am not ever going to be bothered researching crap like that). The IC was formed to counter NPO then, not OoO. What is the difference? Especially in the early days whatever NPO said was policy for Polar regardless. Rambo may have been the one to push the invitation but PC supported it after the fact, so again, what is the difference?

The charter was rewritten and the GGA and NPO both signed it. ODN and LUE did not and left, thus killing the IC.

You are correct, the Entente Cordiale failed, but so did the IC, for the same reasons, so again, what is the difference?

Bravo on pointing out fairly meaningless semantic issues. The overall effect was the same. NPO direct involvement in IC lead directly to its dissolution by design. That has been a fairly well known and acknowledged item for three years. You claiming otherwise now and then simply using a few clerical errors on my part in an attempt to support it is ridiculous. Not too surprising though.

It's nice to see you admit to each factual inaccuracy in your story. The fact of the matter is that the New Pacific Order had zero impact on the disbandment of the Independence Council, and your claims of cunning and guile are baseless, as are the majority of your claims to greatness. My previous post outlined just how pathetic you have become; having to fabricate entire situations to maintain the piss-poor facade that you actually ever possessed a scrap of political talent.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Revanche

[Mathias]

The random stroke of luck wasn't as random as you might think. Q leaders just came together and realized the game wasn't much fun without some meaningful opposition, so they let SF grow to get that opposition, knowing that they would never get the strength too harm Q.

Superfriends failure to become that opposition to Q, made a lot of people bored even within Q. So some people decided to do something about it and switch sides which made sure there was some serious opposition, which lead up to Karma.

Are you sure it wasn't the fact that Continuum alliances began allying SF? They basically won that war without fighting. If the Continuum actually wanted some competition, then why did they overwhelm alliances without allies (or decent allies, anyway) who were far too small to even think about putting up a fight? The Continuum didn't fight that war because they didn't have to.

[Ivan Moldavi]

It's nice to see you admit to each factual inaccuracy in your story. The fact of the matter is that the New Pacific Order had zero impact on the disbandment of the Independence Council, and your claims of cunning and guile are baseless, as are the majority of your claims to greatness. My previous post outlined just how pathetic you have become; having to fabricate entire situations to maintain the piss-poor facade that you actually ever possessed a scrap of political talent.

Again, no.

I acknowledged that some of my specifics were inaccurate but the underlying issues were the same. You pointing out a few semantic memory errors does not actually deflect at all from my account. It is widely accepted by those that were around and informed at the time that my involvement directly in IC caused a majority of the visible rifts that led to its collapse. By design.

Simply because you are still in denial over it and have such a grudge against anything that I might have done in this game doesn't change the situation, it just shows that you still will go out of your way in any vane attempt to try to discredit me and follow me around. Good for you. I wish I could even remember you from back them, maybe I could develop an unhealthy obsession as well.

Most people will see that your last bit of commentary is nothing more than a feeble attempt to placate those that continuously seek to troll me at every opportunity. My actions and reputation in this game speak for themselves. I am an egotistical braggart but that is because IC I actually do have quite a bit to brag about. What about you? Denial was a second string player in the LUEnited Nations and Revanche is what? a somewhat amusing forum troll? Bravo.

Pathetic indeed.